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Rich Are you rejecting the Athanasius creed?
Trinity Belief and Born Again?
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Rich Are you rejecting the Athanasius creed?
ByGraceThroughFaith
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yes man is created in the image and likeness of God having intellect and will but still there are mysteries
eph 5:32
Marymog
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ByGraceThroughFaith
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the Teachings of the Bible
There is NO verse in the entire Bible that even suggests, that God the Father eternally "begets" Jesus Christ! This heresy was pushed by the heretic Origen, and was rather foolishly adopted into the eary "creeds", in the name of a false "peace"!
Marymog
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Jesus called Peter satan so he must be satan since there is no verse in the bible that says he wasn't satan. Jesus called himself a door and there is no verse in the bible that says he really wasn't a door. No verse in the bible with the word Trinity in it...I could go on and on. But you get my point.
So, once again, WHO decided that? What man interpreted Scripture for you that brought you to that conclusion?
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
I interpreted the Scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit. And know that the eternal begetting of Jesus from the Father is heresy. Prove me wrong
See the philosophical definitions provided by trinitarianism.
A Brief Definition of the Trinity
Were you taught by the RCC that the Trinity is three beings?
@theefaith, Protestants believe the Trinity is one being and Roman Catholics believe the Trinity is three beings?
We in the modern West think of a mystery as something that can't be understood. That's not how the 1st Near Eastern people understood it. Here's Strong's definition of "mystery"
G3466 μυστήριον musterion (mï-stee'-riy-on) n.
a secret or “mystery.”
{through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites}
[from a derivative of muo “to shut the mouth”]
Notice the first definition is "a secret." A secret can be perfectly understood once revealed.a secret or “mystery.”
{through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites}
[from a derivative of muo “to shut the mouth”]
Here's Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament:
μυστήρισν, -ου, τό
(< μυέω),
[in LXX: Da LXX TH Dan 2:18 ff. (H7328), Tob 12:7; Tob 12:11, Jdt 2:2, Wis 2:22; Wis 6:22; Wis 14:15; Wis 14:23, Sir 3:18; Sir 22:22; Sir 27:16-17; Sir 27:21, 2Ma 13:21 *;]
1. that which is known to the μύστης (initiated), a mystery or secret doctrine, mostly in pl., τὰ μ. (Æsch., Hdt., al.).
2. In later writers (Menand., Incert., 168), that which may not be revealed (not, however, as in the modern sense, intrinsically difficult to understand), a secret or mystery of any kind (To, Jth, 2Mac, ll, c.).
3. In NT, of the counsels of God (cf. Th.: Job 15:8, Psa 25:14 for H5475), once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof;
(< μυέω),
[in LXX: Da LXX TH Dan 2:18 ff. (H7328), Tob 12:7; Tob 12:11, Jdt 2:2, Wis 2:22; Wis 6:22; Wis 14:15; Wis 14:23, Sir 3:18; Sir 22:22; Sir 27:16-17; Sir 27:21, 2Ma 13:21 *;]
1. that which is known to the μύστης (initiated), a mystery or secret doctrine, mostly in pl., τὰ μ. (Æsch., Hdt., al.).
2. In later writers (Menand., Incert., 168), that which may not be revealed (not, however, as in the modern sense, intrinsically difficult to understand), a secret or mystery of any kind (To, Jth, 2Mac, ll, c.).
3. In NT, of the counsels of God (cf. Th.: Job 15:8, Psa 25:14 for H5475), once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof;
Again, we can see that God reveals secrets to believers (particularly #3).
One more from Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature
Mystery
(μυστήριον), a term employed in the Bible (N.T.), as well as in some of the pagan religions, to denote a revealed secret.
(μυστήριον), a term employed in the Bible (N.T.), as well as in some of the pagan religions, to denote a revealed secret.
The secret is revealed once again. It be hard to find a definition that indicates the ancient Near East would have understood "musterion" any other way.
The Athenasian Creed is usually accepted as a modern Western style mystery, i.e. something that can never be understood. It states in part;
"So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God."
Well, such a statement defies logic and requires the complete abandonment of the normal meaning of words and grammar. But when that happens the gloves come off, and anybody can say anything whether it makes sense of not. That's how we get a son being his own father. Normally we all understand that makes no sense whatsoever. But if we just call it a "mystery" it suddenly becomes an acceptable doctrine.
I don't mean to besmirch any born again child of God regardless of what the believe about Jesus and God. If they confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9-10), they are my brother and I have the deepest love and respect for them. I just think that if they believe the Athenasian Creed they put themselves into a position where the scriptures will be largely a closed book. Imagine reading Moby Dick and mixing up the whale with Captain Ahab. It wouldn't make sense and just saying it's a mystery doesn't help at all in getting the message.
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explain Jn 3:22 they immediately went to river (water) and they
A: preach “faith alone”?
B: baptized?
c: went fishing?
Mk 1:15 believers are only catechumens not Christians
Faith and baptism are required for the new covenant! It’s not a Bible study, but a covenant!
and you have to believe thee faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
the entire faith and practice including Gods promise/ oath /sacrament ez 36:25-27
Then you can easily answer these questions
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Not me lol and the Chalcedon. My online screen names are Jesus is YHWH, Chalcedon and Christophany :). That should be obvious as to what I believe lol.
No, I do believe in the Athenasian Credit, but it's not me that believes it. I don't believe it.
Sound weird? Well I don't think it's any weirder than what the Creed says, namely that there is a God the Father, there is a God the Son, and there is a God the Holy Ghost, but there are not three Gods, there is only one God.
But to answer your question in a way that I can communicate to you exactly how I feel, No. I really don't believe in the Creed. Mainly because the way it's written it sure looks like there are three Gods, and just saying there aren't three Gods but only one God doesn't change what is clearly written in the Creed about a God the Father, a God the Son, and a God the Holy Ghost.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Well... before I knew Christ I was spiritual dead.
I started to look and found Him, and guess what?
The Bible says when you seek Him, you will find Him. Jeremiah 29:13
Good luck with your legalism, predestination, and your complicated gospel explanations.
Bible says be like a child. It's so simple. Believe what He did at the cross and His resurrection.
According to a lot of you, what Christ did at the cross was not enough.
According to many of you working your way into heaven is the only way to go, and what Christ did was all in vain. Grace went out the door...so sad.
But I guess it needs socalled theologians to mess up the gospel message.
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