The Abortion question

[VictoryinJesus]

If an abortion is necessary to save a womans life because of complications that's a good reason, and likewise if x-rays and scans show the baby would be born severely handicapped physically or mentally abortion should be an option.

A question. As some have suggested God creates the fruit of the womb …then a huge question is: does God create severely mentally and physically handicapped?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Pregnancy is a work of God.

“Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.” (Psalms 127:3)

What God has created let not man destroy.

to be clear I had an abortion when I was a teen so I’m not in support of it. Because regardless of whether it is right then or not…sooner or later the man or woman will never forget. It will come back up. Even if a child is handicapped mentally or physically, or if the woman has been raped making the decision to abort will have an impact. Even for a mother who does it, say, in the welfare of the child knowing it would be born handicap …someone still will have to live with that. Even women rioting with “women's rights” can change their mind decades down the road and it will bring regret like the verse
Romans 6:21-23 What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But (Imo) I don’t see your verse quoted having any thing to do with supporting or not supporting a position on abortion.

 

[Stan B]

A question. As some have suggested God creates the fruit of the womb …then a huge question is: does God create severely mentally and physically handicapped?

We have a naturally built in defence measure that most often detects a problem with a fetus and aborts it leaving the womb ready to try again. It is called a spontaneous abortion or miscarriage.

I know women that have had miscarriages without any significant emotional side effects. They have just gone on to have further children.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I know women that have had miscarriages without any significant emotional side effects. They have just gone on to have further children.

yes…they appear happy and blessed which they are to have finally conceived and carried full term. That is nothing to snear at. Yet, you can’t say for sure what toll the sorrowful road taken to get there to carrying full term, and all the failed attempts you assume are long forgotten and buried…has impacted them. Have you gone through a miscarriage?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Pregnancy is a work of God.

“Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.” (Psalms 127:3)

“The fruit of the womb is his reward”
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

What is the heritage of the Lord, for it is Gods’ will you bear fruit and glorify God?

may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

there is two women there…one is found guiltless and conceives seed …New Jerusalem but the woman who the curse enters, the womb miscarries …

Then in Hosea 9:13-16, the prophet Hosea prayed to God to abort the fetuses of his enemies which God did.

abort the “fetuses” …hmm? Mark 9:39-41 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. [40] For he that is not against us is on our part. [41] For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because you belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

“he shall not lose his reward” that whole passage and all the others similar: sounds like a promise they won’t miscarry but carry full term and bear fruit unto God. “You will know them by their fruit”? His reward is with Him…to give to every man …either they lose their reward …and suffer loss as Paul said he had. miscarrying as Hosea prayed let the enemys’ womb be stopped, abort the fruit of unrighteousness…is this speaking of fetuses or lying, cheating, stealing, hating, murdering? “he will lose his reward” …there is something beautiful, a hopeful promise there is not miscarrying…but instead God said He wants there to be fruit that is carried to full-term, and given of God.

I tell you--we do indeed have the right, but woe to those who cannot be trusted in the first.

Woe unto those who do not seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness …for the flesh can do nothing apart from God. Woe to those not faithful in that which is first, in seeking the kingdom of God first and all those things will be added…1 Corinthians 9:15-16 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. [16] For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

His reward is with Him…to give to every man …either they lose their reward …and suffer loss as Paul said he had. miscarrying as Hosea prayed let the enemys’ womb be stopped, abort the fruit of unrighteousness…is this speaking of fetuses or lying, cheating, stealing, hating, murdering?

Children that never see light?
We pray “God help, stop the hatred, stop the violence and blood shed, help. Don’t let it prosper. Destroy the fruit of sin.” What are we asking for? “Let the enemy be destroyed.” Hosea prayed likewise? “Abort” could also be “stop” turn around and follow that which doesn’t end in death.

 

[Ziggy]

I'm responsible for my own body, my own choices, and my own actions.
I chose to keep my baby when I was 14 years old.
I have never had another pregnancy since that first one.
My grandson just graduated high school at the beginning of this month.

I don't believe government should be involved at all.
I believe doctors should have the right to administer according to their conscience.
I do not agree with abortion. I would not then nor now have one.

Each person will have to live with their choices and their actions.
Each person will be judged according to their deeds.

I believe abortion is murder and a miscarriage is the bodies reaction to that pregnancy.
I believe in choosing life over death, unless your a henious criminal and deserve the death penalty.
Children do not fall into to this catagory, specially the unborn that have committed no wrong doing whatsoever.

But I am not your judge. I can't make you make my choices.
I can't prevent a criminal by committing a crime because I choose for them not to commit a crime.

Should there be laws determining the choices that we make with our bodies?
I don't believe man has the right to decide another man's life.
I believe the law of conscience should override all man's laws.

If you have no conscience.... no man can fix that, no law can create that.
And maybe the ones who are choosing not to have children are saving them from growing up with parents that have no conscience.
If you are willing to take an innocent life before their born, then perhaps abortion saves the child from growing up in a life of hell.

Education is lacking.
More people that have experienced abortions that have left internal scars, need to speak out loudly to those who have yet to make that choice.
The only voice being heard today is, if it inconviences you, then do it. And that is selfishness on the ultimate level.
There are always alternatives.

But truthfully, Abortion is big business, big money, and no one in government should have the right to play the monopoly game of life.

That's how I feel about it.
Hugs

 

[Stan B]

yes…they appear happy and blessed which they are to have finally conceived and carried full term. That is nothing to snear at. Yet, you can’t say for sure what toll the sorrowful road taken to get there to carrying full term, and all the failed attempts you assume are long forgotten and buried…has impacted them. Have you gone through a miscarriage?

Just with people close to me. They were all carrying again within a short period of time.

 

[Dropship]

A question. As some have suggested God creates the fruit of the womb …then a huge question is: does God create severely mentally and physically handicapped?

Nope, Jesus points the finger at the creep who's to blame for nasty things-
Jesus said "Satan has bound this crippled woman for eighteen years" (Luke 13:10-16)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Nope, Jesus points the finger at the creep who's to blame for nasty things-
Jesus said "Satan has bound this crippled woman for eighteen years" (Luke 13:10-16)

but have you ever considered:
And he was teaching
Behold a woman that had a spirit of infirmity, and could in no wise lift herself up. 2 Corinthians 12:5-10
he laid his hands upon her and immediately she was made straight and glorified God.

have you ever considered “the crooked shall be made straight” They become angry and wrathful that he made her which had been crooked for eighteen years, not able to lift herself up …straight again Isaiah 42:16 says “I will make darkness light before them” is he making darkness light before them by making that which has been crooked straight again. It is beautiful and assuring that in Isaiah 42:16 He also says “These things I will do, and will not forsake them” beautiful because it seems he is saying way back in Isaiah 42:16 that he will not forsake the woman with the spirit of infirmity, nor that she has been crooked and can’t lift herself up…the Lord will not forsake her but he will hear her whom satan has bound…and have compassion and mercy upon her. Isaiah 45:2 mentions another promise (Imo) that “I will go before you, and make the crooked places straight I will break in pieces that gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron.” Sounds pretty specific to “bars of iron” and being bound, as the woman he said had been bound. Better yet “I will not forsake her” (Imo) y’all might forsake her “hypocrites”
but God will not.
in the passage you quoted he turns to those squabbling over her being healed …straightened again…on the sabbath day, saying, “you hypocrites, does not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?” Do you not have mercy on your ox or ass on the sabbath and loose it from its stall? Leading it away to water? Luke 3:5-7 he calls them again “you generation of vipers” impressive is not though his calling them a generation of vipers, or hypocrites …but instead what he told them he would do “I will not forsake her” “does not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass …and lead him away to watering?” Impressive and a comforting reminder because of “For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.” Revelation 7:17


I get it will be argued He really healed her and that I sound as if im suggesting it is all allegorical and never happened. That is not what I’m suggesting but instead that he is a teacher and maybe what he did right before their eyes had implications of Gods fulfillment of His word just as He promised, yet also it reminds me of who lifts up those who can’t lift themselves up…bound, having a spirit of infirmity, darkness made light before them, the crooked made straight
2 Corinthians 6:12-14

 

[liafailrock]

The issue has been brought up that it's a woman's choice. It's their bodies. Yeah, I agree. They have the choice to keep the dresses down while the men keep their pants up. Not dresses up and pants down. Once a pregnancy occurs, that's a person and the woman has no right to kill that which is a separate entity and person. I'm amazed that this is all an issue given that everyone seems to claim they can think and choose for themselves and understand consequences. So if that's the case, then what does everyone think will happen if they play around with sex like its an entertainment? It's time to take things seriously and not promote such a casual attitude.

 

[Dropship]

I get it will be argued He really healed her..

Argue it out with Jesus when you meet him..

"..a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years..
Jesus said..'Then should not this woman..whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free'..
..he called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity”
Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God."(Luke 13:10-6)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Argue it out with Jesus when you meet him..

"..a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years..
Jesus said..'Then should not this woman..whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free'..
..he called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity”
Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God."(Luke 13:10-6)

You said “Argue it out with Jesus when you meet him..” I get why you thought that is what i was saying …that I don’t think he really healed her. Which I assume is why you advised for me to take it up with Jesus. But that is not what I meant but my poor choice of words.the point was the opposite…that I wasn’t arguing against His healing her or neither was I suggesting it was only allegorical…I was only trying to inspire hope it those that sometimes feel like they can’t lift themselves up. Because I’ve been there, and feel hopeful that what He promised, He keeps.

 

[Stan B]

The issue has been brought up that it's a woman's choice. It's their bodies. Yeah, I agree. They have the choice to keep the dresses down while the men keep their pants up. Not dresses up and pants down. Once a pregnancy occurs, that's a person and the woman has no right to kill that which is a separate entity and person. I'm amazed that this is all an issue given that everyone seems to claim they can think and choose for themselves and understand consequences. So if that's the case, then what does everyone think will happen if they play around with sex like its an entertainment? It's time to take things seriously and not promote such a casual attitude.

You obviously despise and reject what Scripture has to say about abortion. So you are creating new Scripture to support YOUR religion!

You also say:
“Once a pregnancy occurs, that's a person and the woman has no right to kill that which is a separate entity and person.”

Again, are writing your own Scripture. The Bible (a popular book) says that a person becomes a living being when God breathes into their nostrils the breath/spirit of life. That does not happen until the fetus exits the womb and the umbilical cord is cut. That is the moment a fetus takes it’s first breath and becomes a viable living being. With abortion, you can’t kill something that has never been alive.

Then you talk about a woman’s “right”. It would seem that YOU would like that right to be taken away from her and replaced with YOUR right!! Why should YOU have more control over her body than she does??!!

Christ died to set us free from the law. What kind of being would want to nullify Christ’s sacrifice, and reimpose their own laws? I suspect you know.

 

[liafailrock]

You obviously despise and reject what Scripture has to say about abortion. So you are creating new Scripture to support YOUR religion!

You also say:
“Once a pregnancy occurs, that's a person and the woman has no right to kill that which is a separate entity and person.”

Again, are writing your own Scripture. The Bible (a popular book) says that a person becomes a living being when God breathes into their nostrils the breath/spirit of life. That does not happen until the fetus exits the womb and the umbilical cord is cut. That is the moment a fetus takes it’s first breath and becomes a viable living being. With abortion, you can’t kill something that has never been alive.

Then you talk about a woman’s “right”. It would seem that YOU would like that right to be taken away from her and replaced with YOUR right!! Why should YOU have more control over her body than she does??!!

Christ died to set us free from the law. What kind of being would want to nullify Christ’s sacrifice, and reimpose their own laws? I suspect you know.

Your religion as to the breath of God is taken from Jewish definitions as to when life begins- that's just as much "writing one's own scripture". Yes, a fetus is alive, scientific fact and God knows that person, biblical fact. You are wrong plain and simple about the baby not being alive. You ought to read and believe that "popular" book because we Christians here believe in that book. I mean, if you don't want to be a Christian, that's fine. But truth is truth independent of me or you. So I think you are covering your contradictions and obvious errors by convincing yourself and trying to convince others that a baby in the womb is not alive. Then that clears a guilty conscience.

 

[GEN2REV]

IMO, the anti-abortion cult is Satanic, trying destroy peoples' freedom and force their false religion onto every else. That is Satan's way of doing things.

You're always so over the top with your Pro-Abortion comments, it's not even believable.

Because it's 'satanic' to try to save the helpless and innocent, RIGHT?!!

Because there's nothing whatsoever wrong with sex out of control in our societies!

"Bring on the porn, bring on the youth promiscuity and pass out condoms and teach sex to elementary students, etc., but OH NO, DON'T YOU DARE KEEP US FROM KILLING THE UNPLANNED BABIES THAT COME AS A RESULT YOU EVIL DEMONS!!!"

Good is Evil and Dark is Light, RIGHT?!!

 

[GEN2REV]

The Bible says that a fetus does not become a living being until God breathes into it the Breath of Life; and accordingly rabbinical studies have declared that a fetus is not a "viable" living being while still in womb. It is just part of the mother's body. It does not become a "viable" living being until after exiting from the womb, and the umbilical cord has been severed. It is only then, that a fetus takes it's first breath and become a "viable" living being, and God breathes into it the Breath of Life, and is capable of living on it's own without being connected to the mother.

Your same old horse manure you bring to every single Abortion thread.

Easily disproven by all the videos that exist of fetuses fighting for their lives against the Doctors' suction tubes trying to pull them to pieces or trying to evade the medical tongs the Doctors try to grab them with. Obviously a lifeless part of the mother's body that can't think or act as an individual, right? LIES!

Total lies to support the multi-BILLION dollar a year industry of Abortion. Not to mention the 'ACTUAL' satanic agenda of child sacrifice as well as the muti-trillion dollar stem cell projects still taking place to this very day.

Lies and manipulation with you, Stan. As always.

 

[dev553344]

This is always a hot potato, so what does scripture and organised religion say about it, and what are forum members opinions?
My mother became preggers with me out of wedlock which was a terrible social "crime" in those far-off days and I don't know if she considered aborting me, but if she had, most friends and neighbours wouldn't have minded, but as the fetus in question I mght have minded..
PS- In the event she and my dad had a shotgun wedding and were together for the rest of their lives.

It depends. General abortion is against God's will as far as I know. But there are rare circumstances when it must be done to save the mother. Or incest or rape are two other possible things that could support abortion. Bringing retarded babies into the world might not be well as they could suffer a fate worse than death in the case of incest.

 

[Ziggy]

Supreme Court ruled Abortion unconstitutional today.
That means it is not Federal Law,
It goes back to each state to decide how they choose to rule their state.
Some states have "trigger" laws which make all abortions illegal.
Some states have limitations such as 15 weeks, rape, incest, mother's life and severe medical issues with the baby.
Some states allow abortion up to 28 days after birth.

If you live in a state with "trigger" laws, nothing can prevent you from going to another state that has allowances.

However, the U.S. taxpayer will no longer be federally taxed and responsible for paying for other peoples abortions.
This should also give doctors the freedom to choose whether they want to perform them or not without worrying about losing their medical licenses.
The left pushed too far left.
It's just being brought back to center.

No one is banned from having an abortion. You just have to be responsible to get yourself where you need to go and PAY for it YOURSELF.
There are many organizations and groups that are ready and willing to help pregnant women choose their course of action.
Groups on the left can provide transportation and financing.
Groups on the right can provide and help women who want to keep their children.
And there are groups that will help with Adoption options.

But the Federal Government no longer has any power or decision making over your choices.
And they can't steal your taxes and give them to organizations that profit off baby parts.

Let's make the boy/man also responsible for the decision the girl/woman will make.
After all it takes two to make a baby. And I believe the male should be equally responsible as the female.
Even if that means going to prison for rape or incest. It's time to pay for play and be responsible for our actions.

For me..
It's a Great day in America!
Thank you Jesus for watching over all these beautiful innocent babies.

Hugs

Choice isn't being denied to anyone, this is more like a crossroad where you need to consider the consequences and not just take abortion for granted.

God Bless America!

 

[Stan B]

Your religion as to the breath of God is taken from Jewish definitions as to when life begins- that's just as much "writing one's own scripture". Yes, a fetus is alive, scientific fact and God knows that person, biblical fact. You are wrong plain and simple about the baby not being alive. You ought to read and believe that "popular" book because we Christians here believe in that book. I mean, if you don't want to be a Christian, that's fine. But truth is truth independent of me or you. So I think you are covering your contradictions and obvious errors by convincing yourself and trying to convince others that a baby in the womb is not alive. Then that clears a guilty conscience.

Your predictable total absence of so much as a single Scriptural reference to support your obviously anti-Scriptural noise says all that need be said about your hatred of God and HIS Word. The only message you have delivered here is that YOU deem GOD to be a liar, and are motivated to promote that designation to any who will listen.