A difficult question:

[CadyandZoe]

Our actions by grace united to Christ are meritorious

Negative. Our work in the body of Christ is not meritorious. Consider what Jesus said about that.

Luke 17:
7 “Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’? 9 He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? 10 So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”

 

[theefaith]

Negative. Our work in the body of Christ is not meritorious. Consider what Jesus said about that.

Luke 17:
7 “Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’? 9 He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? 10 So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”

not works alone
Not of ourselves
But in Christ thru grace

 

[CadyandZoe]

not works alone
Not of ourselves
But in Christ thru grace

Neither Jesus nor his apostles taught the doctrine of Sacramentalism.

 

[theefaith]

Is the practice of virture required?

 

[theefaith]

Neither Jesus nor his apostles taught the doctrine of Sacramentalism.

 

[theefaith]

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Is the practice of virture required?

Required for what?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

Grace is not imparted through ritual. Followers of Christ are not pagans.

 

[theefaith]

Required for what?

sanctification

 

[Phoneman777]

Since there is only ONE Redeemer and only ONE Mediator between God and men, all human beings are simply potential beneficiaries of the redemptive work of Christ. Not participants but recipients when they obey the Gospel.

Correct

 

[theefaith]

Grace is not imparted through ritual. Followers of Christ are not pagans.

pagan means the worship of creation

we receive grace by union with Christ

 

[theefaith]

Correct

and only Christ is judge?
Only Christ has authority to teach?
To forgive sin?

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[Phoneman777]

Do we participate in the redemption with Christ?

Depends on what you mean by "participate".

"Redemption" means "buy back" - since the only thing we can offer God is a lost soul, we're incapable of "buying back" our freedom, leaving us hopelessly under the death sentence. How, then, can we participate in the transaction of redemption when we're bankrupt from the start?

However, the priceless, precious gold of His blood and the silver of His tears makes Jesus well able to redeem every lost soul, from Adam to the last sinner, but we must choose to be redeemed if we are escape Divine Justice. Those who refuse to make that choice will end up satisfying the demands of Divine Justice themselves by dying the Second Death...the everlasting, eternal death...a death from which there will be no resurrection. Is "choosing" considered "participation"? Whether one thinks so or not, the choice still must be made.

 

[Phoneman777]

and only Christ is judge?
Only Christ has authority to teach?
To forgive sin?

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

All this you speak of is not part of the "Redemption" process, which has to do with "buying back" freedom for the sinner who sits on death row, condemned.

Everything you have up their listed has to do with after the transaction of redemption is completed and the sinner is now a grace-saved saint who goes forth to preach, minister, judge, cast out demons, etc., etc., etc.

 

[theefaith]

Depends on what you mean by "participate".

"Redemption" means "buy back" - since the only thing we can offer God is a lost soul, we're incapable of "buying back" our freedom, leaving us hopelessly under the death sentence. How, then, can we participate in the transaction of redemption when we're bankrupt from the start?

However, the priceless, precious gold of His blood and the silver of His tears makes Jesus well able to redeem every lost soul, from Adam to the last sinner, but we must choose to be redeemed if we are escape Divine Justice. Those who refuse to make that choice will end up satisfying the demands of Divine Justice themselves by dying the Second Death...the everlasting, eternal death...a death from which there will be no resurrection. Is "choosing" considered "participation"? Whether one thinks so or not, the choice still must be made.

no we are already redeemed and members of Christ in his grace

 

[Phoneman777]

no we are already redeemed and members of Christ in his grace

Sorry, we are not redeemed until we first accept the Redeemer into our hearts.

We might have a bazillion dollars deposited into our bank account, but if we choose to reject it and sleep on the street homeless and begging at the intersection, that deposit means nothing ;)

 

[CadyandZoe]

sanctification

The root word of sanctification is the Latin word "sanctus" which literally means "holy."
The term "holy" means, "set aside for a consecrated purpose" in contradistinction to "common" or "ordinary."
God is the only one who may decide whom to designate as holy. He consecrates them by giving them his Holy Spirit.

We don't sanctify ourselves, especially through the practice of virtue. The practice of virtue is the result, not the cause of sanctification.

 

[CadyandZoe]

pagan means the worship of creation

we receive grace by union with Christ

Pagan is not the worship of creation. Pagan is the seeking of power through witchcraft, sorcery, drugs, incantations, magic, intentions, and technology. The Roman Catholic church has adopted pagan practices in both belief and practice.

The practice of sacramentalism is among the pagan practices encouraged by the Roman Catholic church.

 

[theefaith]

All this you speak of is not part of the "Redemption" process, which has to do with "buying back" freedom for the sinner who sits on death row, condemned.

Everything you have up their listed has to do with after the transaction of redemption is completed and the sinner is now a grace-saved saint who goes forth to preach, minister, judge, cast out demons, etc., etc., etc.

saved really? Now?

 

[theefaith]

Sorry, we are not redeemed until we first accept the Redeemer into our hearts.

We might have a bazillion dollars deposited into our bank account, but if we choose to reject it and sleep on the street homeless and begging at the intersection, that deposit means nothing ;)

you forgot baptism

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27

Jesus says: I remind you you’re still under oath!


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!






“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2