CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
A sacrament might involve an oath, but a sacrament is NOT an oath. The sacramentalist is seeking grace through ritual, which is contrary to faith in Jesus Christ.
A difficult question:
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1 pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1 pet 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; (sure sounds like faith alone to me?)
not even close!
Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25
Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18
Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22
Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6
Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20
Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14
The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!
———
A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.
Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.
The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27).
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
In your lengthy post, which was totally unnecessary, You say, "A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace." Now we know, as the Apostle said, Grace is not according to works otherwise it wouldn't be called grace. Your Catholic teaching has twisted and distorted the gospel to the degree that represents a false Gospel. The False RCC gospel teaches that one must do something in order to receive grace, which is entirely contrary to true and actual grace.
The RCC teaches paganism, ritual compensation for favors. The sooner you see it, the quicker you can come out of her. But don't wait too long.
faith alone is condemned error
faith and sacraments is biblical
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
“Faith alone”
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I didn't say faith alone. My argument is against meritorious grace, which is not only an oxymoron, but a dangerous false teaching. I'm not saying that we don't do stuff. I'm saying that doing stuff is the result of grace, not the cause of grace. Your catechism has everything backwards, which leads to the practice of religion: a faithless and hopeless standpoint. Jesus doesn't want his followers to practice religion, which is slavery. Your catechism enslaves the uninitiated, and the poor helpless fool who hasn't seen through the deceptions yet.
then either all men are saved or Chooses to save some and not others?????
If we really have nothing to do!
Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7
Doer of the word
James 1:22-23
Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21
Things we must do:
Matt 5:8
Matt 7:14 narrow road leads to life
Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him
Lk 1:4 be instructed
Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 Matt 28:19 Jn 3:5 Jn 3:22 ez 36:25 baptism
Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Matt 16:24
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19
Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16
Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13
1 pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
it’s not a Bible study but a covenant!
How can you have a covenant without religion?
How do we get grace?
Phoneman777
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This post is really huge, so I just skimmed it. Please try to be a bit less wordy and if necessary, break up your points into smaller chunks. Thanks ;) Suffice it to say, none of that which you speak of has anything to do with the act of Redemption, but with the experience of the redeemed.
Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!
Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!
Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.
Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
The father has given the son authority to chose whom to save.
We have plenty to do, but what we do flows from our sanctified heart. Thus, we realize that our deeds don't save us, our deeds follow from our renewed heart, which God creates.
It's a matter of why we do it.
Are we attempting to gain God's favor? God is not impressed.
Are we attempting to merit God's love or his salvation? Never going to happen.
Instead, God chooses whom to save. And he pours out his Holy Spirit into their hearts. They do what is right for its own sake. And they please God out of a renewed heart and mind, which God himself is creating.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
The term "covenant" is the English translation of the Hebrew word for "a cutting", which comes from the ancient practice of "cutting a covenant." Reference Genesis 15:8-11.
The passage above gives the account of God's covenant with Abraham. Typically both parties would walk between the cuttings signifying that if one should break the covenant, one should be worthy of being cut into two parts just like the animals. But in this case, Abraham was not allowed to walk between the cuttings in order to signify that this particular covenant was unilateral. That is, Abraham was not required to do anything. God would not only keep his part of the covenant, he guarantees to keep Abraham's part also.
The same is true of the New Covenant, whereby God promises not only to keep his part of the covenant, he promises to keep our part also. In other words, the terms of the covenant do not depend on anything we do.
Followers of Christ don't do religion. Those who practice religion, unfortunately, haven't believed the gospel message
How does one receive grace? It's God's choice whom to favor. And who knows his mind?
so God chooses to save some but not others???
how is sanctifying grace applied this our spiritual souls?
Phoneman777
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Just to clarify, we don't participate in the act of redemption any more than a bankrupt soda pop company can participate in the redemption of their empty glass bottles. If they want their bottles, they must get someone else to pay the redemption money in order to obtain them.
Likewise, bankrupt sinners, being wholly unable to participate in the transaction necessary for their redemption from death to life, must find someone else to pay that redemption price for them - the loving Savior.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, God chooses whom to save.
Your pagan religion has taught you that "technique" is the pathway to sanctifying grace. This is false doctrine.
Rather, God chooses individuals to receive his sanctifying grace. They have nothing to do with it.
understanding is a gift of the Holy Spirit
Ask and you shall receive
Christ is the savior
We are his members in his church
Redeemed
Justified (faith & baptism)
United to Christ in grace and bearing fruit Jn 15:4
What fruit?
nothing? Not even faith? Jn 3:16 says we choose!
for God to choose to save some and not all would be injustice and with God that’s impossible!
1 Tim 1:9-15 all sinners?
Lk 2:10-11 all men?
Jn 1:29 all men?
James 5:20 saves a soul?
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Holy apostolic councils with the authority of Jesus Christ are not pagan
- If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less, than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that these said sacraments of the New Law do not differ from the sacraments of the Old Law, save that the ceremonies are different, and different the outward rites; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that these seven sacraments are in such wise equal to each other, as that one is not in any way more worthy than another; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that these sacraments were instituted for the sake of nourishing faith alone; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law do not contain the grace which they signify; or, that they do not confer that grace on those who do not place an obstacle thereunto; as though they were merely outward signs of grace or justice received through faith, and certain marks of the Christian profession, whereby believers are distinguished amongst men from unbelievers; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that grace, as far as God's part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that, in the three sacraments, Baptism, to wit, Confirmation, and Order, there is not imprinted in the soul a character, that is, a certain spiritual and indelible Sign, on account of which they cannot be repeated; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that all Christians have power to administer the word, and all the sacraments; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that, in ministers, when they effect, and confer the sacraments, there is not required the intention at least of doing what the Church does; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that a minister, being in mortal sin,-if so be that he observe all the essentials which belong to the effecting, or conferring of, the sacrament,-neither effects, nor confers the sacrament; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones; let him be anathema.
Phoneman777
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CadyandZoe
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I read John 3:16 in context where Jesus reminds Nicodemus that no one can enter the kingdom unless that individual has been "born again" or "born from above." None of us chooses to be born. If we believe and choose to persevere, this is the result, not the cause of being born again.
Your catechism was invented by a "technologist", asking, "what must I do to induce or persuade God to bless me?" What ritual will impress him? What is the secret incantation? What is the proper technique? What must I do to be saved?
What must I do? I must believe in God, believe also in Jesus Christ his son, confess myself to be a sinner, repent of my wicked ways, seek God's mercy with a humble and contrite heart, and become a disciple of Jesus Christ. I must love God, fear God, believe God, believe his son, love the brethren, seek first the kingdom of God, and remain humble.
But how can I do this? At the core of my being I am evil, twisted, perverted, selfish, arrogant, hater of God, hater of others, and placing pleasure over principle. I'm not alone. This describes every human being at the core of his existence. None of us, left to ourselves, would ever choose to trust God and believe his word. No not one.
Only those whom God has chosen to save, pouring out his spirit into our hearts (Romans 5:5) will be saved. And if we should become the victim of his love, then endurance, love, hope, and humility all follow from that.
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