Whose government do you defend or speak good about?

[Prentis]

HammerStone, it is not my intention to say that anyone is not putting Christ first. I understand that some of it is how we word things. :)

I completely agree with all those analogies. We are to pay taxes, be obedient and do what is right... Amen to that!

I believe you when you say we probably agree on more than we seem to...

What I am pointing to is that we are not here to promote this government... at all! We obey it, but it ends just right there. We promote a different way of living. Example; let's take what happens in acts 2 and put it in our context. We sell everything and give all to the brethren, and come together to seek God and his kingdom. We pay taxes, we obey the law... But what we live and promote is completely different.

The point is, we shouldn't be here promoting the good of one government party. I'm not saying you're doing this, don't get me wrong. For example, in Canada, there is one party that is against the war in Iraq, where innocent civilians are killed, but for abortion, and the opposing party is for the war in Iraq, but against abortion... If we promote one or the other, we are NOT promoting Christianity. We are here to be amabassadors of a completely different way.

Not saying you disagree, but this is the subject at hand. :)

 

[Buzzfruit]

While I agree with Buzzfruit's analogy(which is why I am trying to stay patient and point out we ultimately agree more than we might realize), I do not agree with this statement on top of it. This statement is overused time and again to abscond ourselves from blame or simply to make it seem easier. Yes the Apostle Paul longed to be with Jesus (who shouldn't if you really understand the Savior and what he's promised to us!), but it was not in the sense of this world being a cosmic apartment-for-rent.

Just as I presented above, we teach, preach, proclaim, declare and whatever reasonable else we have to do about Jesus. We take care of what we have been given of God, political system included (while God did not say "Here's democracy, the absolute perfect government!" like some wanna contend, He did form you and place you in a time where he knew full-on what kind of government you'd be under). That means we should treat this world incredibly nicely for no other reason that our really awesome God who should be magnified through all of it!

What you are saying if one is going to be fair would apply to Communism, Socialistic governments and even governments that are dictatorship. But God is magnified not by man's government but by His people who should be living and expressing the culture or government of God.

God has His people scattered in various forms of governments......they are not only in the democratic ones. A Christian should be thankful for whatever Country and government to which that Country operates under that they are living in. Remember, Jesus said His people are the salt of the Earth....salt does not only brings out the flavor in food, but it is also a preserving agent. So like salt, we should not only make humanity palatable to God, but preserve humanity.....in a sense we make God see the potential of humanity.

Look at it like this: We are on an assignment and our assignment is to tell the world about God's kingdom, and to recruit those who believe into God's government. The reason for this also is that we are part of a silent coup d'état to over through all the governments of this world. But its not like we are going to do it the way the world does it....through bloodshed. We are doing it by the gospel....Christianity is spreading and growing. So when Jesus returns the Nations are going to see something that has not taken place since Jesus ascended to Heaven. They are going to see not only dead people rising from under the ground. They are going to see people ascending into the sky, as if these people were some kind of super-beings from another planet…..we will be super human beings from the Earth. Because we will be glorified human beings our New Bodies and brain we will no longer be subjected to the laws of physics....we will be like Jesus......nothing will be impossible for us to do. Nations are going to submit themselves to us and God's rule. It won't happen right away or overnight but they will.

Isaiah 2:1-4 (ASV)
[sup]1 [/sup]The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
[sup]2 [/sup]And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[sup]3 [/sup]And many peoples shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem.

When Jesus returns the saints will be glorified (this includes the men of God in the Old Testament) and will be in Jerusalem. This is why it says the law will go forth from Zion. As representatives of the Nations go to Jerusalem to inquire what God have them do, many of us will be sent out to rule(teach) over these Nations. Remember the parable that Jesus spoke about the servants whom the master after he came back gave the good servants authority over various cities? You can find that in Luke 19:12-19 . Only when Jesus returns will the governments of this world become our government and the government/kingdom of God.

Revelation 11:15 (NKJV)
[sup]15 [/sup]Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

 

[veteran]

What makes one think that by supporting their country and defending it means support of one specific political party? Last time I checked, there were people in government, the military, education, finance, etc., that vote for several different political parties?

Why would some come here to try and falsely associate the following of a political party with loving their people and country to be a good citizen while a follower of Christ Jesus?

Now the reasoning of globalists-internationalists that have been busy destroying the national sovereignty of nations to form their one world system is very much against the feelings of 'nationalism', which nationalism is about being a good citizen of one's 'own' country and the will to serve one's 'own' country.

 

[Insight]

What if that country commanded you to kill?

 

[veteran]

What if that country commanded you to kill?

Sometimes that is necessary to defend one's people and nation. It can even be necessary to defend one's own family from an intruder in one's own home. When the Roman soldier came to Jesus for to ask Him to heal his servant, our Lord didn't rebuke the soldier for being a soldier. As a matter of fact, Jesus told His own disciples that didn't have a sword to go buy one (Luke 22).

 

[us2are1]

It was not the European Nations that took the gospel around the world anymore than the Jewish Nation responsible for Christianity. It was the individual Christians in those European Nations that did it. Because a Nation is influenced by Christians does not make that Nation a Christian Nation.
Christian, as defined by the Bible is one that has been baptized and had a minister of God hands' laid on him or her, and have recieved the Holy Spirit. That cannot be said of any Nation or Country.

John 4
22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.

 

[Insight]

Sometimes that is necessary to defend one's people and nation. It can even be necessary to defend one's own family from an intruder in one's own home. When the Roman soldier came to Jesus for to ask Him to heal his servant, our Lord didn't rebuke the soldier for being a soldier. As a matter of fact, Jesus told His own disciples that didn't have a sword to go buy one (Luke 22).

I will let others of your number teach you the basic elements of the Gospel. I must say this above twisting of Scripture was not expected from one so knowledgeable in this forum.

Next you will be teaching Christ should have come down from the cross

Maybe you should read Matt 5 before responding!

Insight

 

[veteran]

I will let others of your number teach you the basic elements of the Gospel. I must say this above twisting of Scripture was not expected from one so knowledgeable in this forum.

Next you will be teaching Christ should have come down from the cross

Maybe you should read Matt 5 before responding!

Insight

What a bunch rambling nonsense. YOU should read Luke 22 carefully.

Luke 22:35-38
35 And He said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in Me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said unto them, It is enough.
(KJV)


Pretty obvious that you're one who needs more learning in The Gospel about the responsibilities Christ gave His disciples to protect their ministries in that Gospel from His enemies.

Every male in America after high school ought have to serve in the U.S. military for two years, and be required to keep a functioning weapon and 200 rounds of ammo in their homes (like the Colonial Minutemen), and train with it, just like Israeli's do, and other nations like Switzerland and Sweden.

 

[Insight]

What a bunch rambling nonsense. YOU should read Luke 22 carefully.
Luke 22:35-38
35 And He said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in Me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said unto them, It is enough.
(KJV)
Pretty obvious that you're one who needs more learning in The Gospel about the responsibilities Christ gave His disciples to protect their ministries in that Gospel from His enemies.
Every male in America after high school ought have to serve in the U.S. military for two years, and be required to keep a functioning weapon and 200 rounds of ammo in their homes (like the Colonial Minutemen), and train with it, just like Israeli's do, and other nations like Switzerland and Sweden.

The words of a fool.

Now I say these words not to Veteran who knows not the Gospel, but to others here who may be too afraid to speak out against such blatant pride.

Any true Christian will know Jesus' teaching on such matters of warfare. See Matt 26:52 - and its plainly obvious to any right-minded Christ-like believer that Jesus was not speaking of a literal sword in Luke 22.
See Luke 22:50,51 & John 18:10,11.

Veteran cannot see the spiritual lesson here for the guns in his shed. This discourse was given in the upper room and Jesus was preparing his disciples for what was coming. Up until now they had enjoyed the protection which came with being associated with Christ, but soon that divine protection (Luke 22:35) was about to be withdrawn (Zech 13:7), now they needed to expect persecution (Luke 21:12).

They needed to make provision for themselves. Clearly here the sword is symbolic of the conflict which would come once Jesus ascended to his father.

Now our weapons of our warfare are not carnal 2 Cor 10:4 and it appears Veteran needs to put away his gun loving attitude and become proficient with the “sword of the spirit” Eph 6:17

What were 11 men going to do with two (2) physical swords against the Romans Army and The Pharisees?

In all my years I have never read such utter rot in any forum!

One thing is for sure this Veteran knows absolutely nothing about the Master...and I mean nothing!

Insight

 

[veteran]

The words of a fool.

Now I say these words not to Veteran who knows not the Gospel, but to others here who may be too afraid to speak out against such blatant pride.

Any true Christian will know Jesus' teaching on such matters of warfare. See Matt 26:52 - and its plainly obvious to any right-minded Christ-like believer that Jesus was not speaking of a literal sword in Luke 22.
See Luke 22:50,51 & John 18:10,11.

Veteran cannot see the spiritual lesson here for the guns in his shed. This discourse was given in the upper room and Jesus was preparing his disciples for what was coming. Up until now they had enjoyed the protection which came with being associated with Christ, but soon that divine protection (Luke 22:35) was about to be withdrawn (Zech 13:7), now they needed to expect persecution (Luke 21:12).

They needed to make provision for themselves. Clearly here the sword is symbolic of the conflict which would come once Jesus ascended to his father.

Now our weapons of our warfare are not carnal 2 Cor 10:4 and it appears Veteran needs to put away his gun loving attitude and become proficient with the “sword of the spirit” Eph 6:17

What were 11 men going to do with two (2) physical swords against the Romans Army and The Pharisees?

In all my years I have never read such utter rot in any forum!

One thing is for sure this Veteran knows absolutely nothing about the Master...and I mean nothing!

Insight

You sound just like a Communist subversive, and a draft dodger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCeqa65pxos

The above video is why God's people have the God-given right to arm themselves. As a by-product, those willing to stand up to protect God's people from the workers of the devil out there which desire to slaughter us like sheep, just so happen to also fight for weak woman type men like Insight who don't have the intestinal fortitude to defend theirselves.

 

[Insight]

Looks like you left the sword of the spirit a long time ago Veteran - its unlike you to put away the Word for youtube?

Matt 19:19; Mark 12:31; Matt 5:43,44

Put your trust in your guns and you will die by those same guns! Matt 26:52

Insight

 

[Prentis]

I agree with Insight. We are called to wage war in a different realm, not in the realm of carnality.

We are to give our lives as a ransom for a lost world, we are to be as Jesus. He carried his cross and commands us to do the same.

It's not the silly 'he carried his cross so we don't have to carry ours'. European Christianity actually followed Islam's example when they took up the sword and went on the crusades... Which spirit were they following, might we ask!

 

[Buzzfruit]

John 4
22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.

What is your point?

 

[us2are1]

anymore than the Jewish Nation responsible for Christianity

God was responsible for the Jewish nation and through the Jewish nation He brought forth Christianity.

 

[Buzzfruit]

God was responsible for the Jewish nation and through the Jewish nation He brought forth Christianity.

The Jews are not responsible to Christianity......the vast majority of the Jews rejected it. Where is the logic of giving credit to a whole set people that hated Jesus and Christians for the growth of Christianity? Paul as one man did a lot to preach it to the gentiles and through them Christianity spread around the world.

And God is responsible for all Nations......He set them wherever they are. Do you think God loves the Jews more than the Gentiles? The Gentiles were given what the Jews as a whole rejected. This does not mean that had the Jews accepted it that the Gentiles would have no hope. It just means that Jesus was sent to them first but they rejected Jesus. So He said them, the kingdom of God would be taken away from them and given to others. Many of the Gentiles have entered the kingdom of God and most of the Jews have not.

 

[us2are1]

The Jews are not responsible to Christianity......the vast majority of the Jews rejected it. Where is the logic of giving credit to a whole set people that hated Jesus and Christians for the growth of Christianity? Paul as one man did a lot to preach it to the gentiles and through them Christianity spread around the world.

And God is responsible for all Nations......He set them wherever they are. Do you think God loves the Jews more than the Gentiles? The Gentiles were given what the Jews as a whole rejected. This does not mean that had the Jews accepted it that the Gentiles would have no hope. It just means that Jesus was sent to them first but they rejected Jesus. So He said them, the kingdom of God would be taken away from them and given to others. Many of the Gentiles have entered the kingdom of God and most of the Jews have not.

Are you Loosing sight of the fact that Christ was the Jew who brought it and now a Jew is one who follows Christ? Those of faith in God are the only Jews or Jerusalem or Judah that has ever existed. The House of evil doers will never be named.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly ; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly ; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[Buzzfruit]

John 4
22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.

That verse means that salvation came out of Judah. It is referring to Jesus whom is descendant of Judah. It does not mean that the Jews is our salvation or that we must put our trust in the Jews nor does it mean that we must defend the Jews. Remember, Jesus had some hard things to say about the Jews. In fact, in His revelation to John, He even said to one of the Church that He will make those so-called Jews come and worship before their feet. Many of the Jews are going pay homage to God’s people most of whom were Gentiles Christians.

Are you Loosing sight of the fact that Christ was the Jew who brought it and now a Jew is one who follows Christ? Those of faith in God are the only Jews or Jerusalem or Judah that has ever existed. The House of evil doers will never be named.

I have not lost sight of that fact. But my point still remains........the vast majority of the Jews rejected Jesus.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly ; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly ; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I have been saying that for years.....a true Jew is inward (spiritual). So a Gentile Christian is a spiritual Jew and by faith he or she is a child of Abraham. A spiritual Jew is more a Jew than a Jew who is only a Jew by natural birth.

 

[Insight]

You sound just like a Communist subversive, and a draft dodger.

The above video is why God's people have the God-given right to arm themselves. As a by-product, those willing to stand up to protect God's people from the workers of the devil out there which desire to slaughter us like sheep, just so happen to also fight for weak woman type men like Insight who don't have the intestinal fortitude to defend theirselves.

BTW - What is it if 50 or 100 Christians die at the hands of gunmen? Job 12:10;1:21

Or what is the other option...should you desire to save your life? Luke 9:24

You are yet to be converted to the Gospel Vet!

Insight

 

[veteran]

I agree with Insight. We are called to wage war in a different realm, not in the realm of carnality.

We are to give our lives as a ransom for a lost world, we are to be as Jesus. He carried his cross and commands us to do the same.

It's not the silly 'he carried his cross so we don't have to carry ours'. European Christianity actually followed Islam's example when they took up the sword and went on the crusades... Which spirit were they following, might we ask!

Then you are against Christ, for He commanded His disciples to go buy a sword who didn't yet have one (Luke 22). I'm glad you're not in any position of responsibility to protect Christ's Church from those who would come in to destroy. We all would have been dead a long time ago.

 

[Insight]

Then you are against Christ, for He commanded His disciples to go buy a sword who didn't yet have one (Luke 22). I'm glad you're not in any position of responsibility to protect Christ's Church from those who would come in to destroy. We all would have been dead a long time ago.

There is much confusion within you Veteran.

You are yet to learn Peters lesson. Matt 26:52