Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Exactly. The only thing that makes the scriptures important is that they contain God's word.
But nobody seems to get that.
Maybe Matthew 23:16-17 would be instructive. Whoever has ears to hear, let 'em hear.
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You come out strong with assumptions of how members will respond.
It takes faith to accept the gospel of salvation...that message comes from scriptures in the Bible.
The scrolls that were translated into English that gave us the KJV Bible were all written documents of true events. Jesus taught from the scrolls because there wasn't a Bible back then.
A lot of scriptures in the OT are quoted in the NT by Jesus and by the apostles.
The Bible in its physical composition without any writing is nothing that a man should worship. But when the scrolls are copied onto it the whole book becomes the most important spiritual guide to knowing God and His Will that we could ever be in possession of.
Before the KJV or any printed Bible the scrolls were kept in a vault in the Vatican. No church member had access to those scrolls at that time.
The priest would open a scroll and read it to the congregation then roll it back up and return it to the library.
You're putting too much emphasis on what material the Bible is made of rather than what is written on the pages of the Bible.
Faith Comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Show me where he taught from the scrolls.... Luke 4:16-21 he read one passage, closed it and handed it back to the minister and sat down.. one passage...
Luke 4:16-21
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
He did not teach anyone from the Bible he read the Prophecy only... Good try though...
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Now, to argue the other side...
On what basis should we trust that God has given you (or anybody else) a message?
I'm not the one arguing so no worries...
Ask yourself one question... Did God or Jesus ever lie???
Then compare it to doctrine such other Trinity and once saved always saved...
Scripture doesn't support either of them without calling them both liars...
Trinitarians believe Jesus is God himself yet they will never ever provide proof that it is possible for God or Jesus to lie...
They know they cannot answer the question because if the devil is the father of lies and it is impossible for God or Jesus to lie, then who is their father if they continue to call both God and Jesus liars...
As far as once saved always saved, Jesus clearly tells you what you need to do to be saved and the Bible clearly states that if you are born or God, baptized, you will not continue to sin...
The death and resurrection is not a new creation nor is the blood of Jesus what saves you...
The covenant Jesus was saying that was a new covenant was that they no longer had to provide a blood sacrifice as they had done in the past...
They will tell you that you no longer have to abide by the 10 commandments yet Jesus clearly said that nothing one thing would pass from the Law until the heaven and earth passes ..
It they tell you that you no longer have to go by then, they are calling Jesus a liar...
But like I said... to watch them get all worked up because they hold to the Bible to establish their Faith and beliefs in false doctrines is interesting...
they call Jesus and God Himself a liar by their very beliefs and they know that just refuse to see it...
it took me 38 years to finally see and the question, which is the Title of this Thread, was actually said to me as "Is your faith in the Bible or is it in Me."
From that moment on I began to see where I was lead wrong because I tried would use the Bible to establish my faith...
What they do not realize is the Bible is not Faith at all.... it is how you live your life in obedience to God and His Authority over you....
James 2:14-2614What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Yes the Bible tells you what you must do, but if you do not submit yourself to God and His authority, then you have no faith nor are you saved nor do you have eternal life...
John 4:34 But the testimony I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
John 5:39,40 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Luke 18:18-30 18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? 27And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
They ignore scripture and call Jesus Himself a liar because they are taught that it is the Blood that saves and grants you eternal life yet Jesus has already stated that it is what he has said that does this...
28Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. 29And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, 30Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
The overall view is this
Living by the Spirit is primary.
The Bible is simply referential.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.
The Bible itself was never written to us personally, however it has tons of value which is nearly endless to learn from. However at the end of it when you walk away you have a choice, will one decide walk by their flesh (my ways), or by the Spirit (Gods ways which he helps us produce good fruit which is all by faith, however you learn what those things are from the Bible).
Living by the Spirit is primary.
The Bible is simply referential.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.
The Bible itself was never written to us personally, however it has tons of value which is nearly endless to learn from. However at the end of it when you walk away you have a choice, will one decide walk by their flesh (my ways), or by the Spirit (Gods ways which he helps us produce good fruit which is all by faith, however you learn what those things are from the Bible).
All of this is correct... but if you do not walk in the Spirit then you are walking in the flesh...
People read and use the Bible so that they do not have to walk in the spirit... They do not know how to properly utilize the Bible so that they can grow, they use it as a cloak for their sins....
if they would actually read the Bible for edification, they would see the lies they teach and believe...
I already had one in one thread was saying that you had to have the Bible in order to have faith and that it was the instructions on how you would get eternal life and how to show your faith, then they turned around and in another thread they said, after I had quoted a post, that you had to think outside the box... that right there told me that their argument and all that they had said was a complete and total lie...
Lambano
Well-Known Member
If I felt like stirring the pot, I'd quote this scripture:
And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (1 Kings 22:22-23)
(And don't say, "Well, the demonic spirit did the actual lying". The kingpin who sends out a hitman is equally guilty of murder as the man who pulled the trigger.)
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Did “god” tell you that?
Or did you learn about that in the Bible?
“…the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
Jesus’ words are spirit, Jesus’ words are in the Bible; So your statement is either a lie, a taunt, or pure stupidity…
Johann
Well-Known Member
As for you ... I no longer will respond because you have already shown that you do not even trust the Bible in another post...
Hardly know whether to laugh or cry... 
...there's an awful lot of bickering in this thread. The OP itself seems a bit antagonistic (maybe not intentionally) and I get the feeling there might be some history behind it, or that it was carried over from other arguments. We shouldn't bicker like this amongst ourselves....can't these things be discussed cordially? Some things, like the concept of "trinity" are hard to understand and so we need to cut each other some slack...not everyone is a theological genius or has direct revelation of those things. Even understanding what someone else is getting at with their posts can be difficult....need to acknowledge that we may not always be understanding someone else's post correctly, and avoid accusations.
I think of the bible as God's letters....if we love someone very much who has gone away on a very long trip we will cherish their letters to us. That said, I have seen some who do seem to idolize the bible in a way. I think sometimes it's because they lack experience of God by His Spirit, they don't really know the Lord very well in a living relational way, His nature/spirit and character. ( So maybe it would even be more to the point to address the root of the problem, whatever the case is.) Those who idolize the bible seem to kind of separate it from the Person of God, but then there can be those at the other end of the spectrum too, who over-emphasize experience and separate experience from God's word. We need God's letters in order to learn to know Him well, but we also need to know God to understand His letters properly, where He's coming from and what He's getting at.
I think it's really the Author of these letters we worship, not the letters themselves as such. But on the other hand it's hard to separate the Person from His words really. It's partly through their words that we get to know someone, as well as through our interactions with them. I just worry whether we should argue so hard about these things and let it become divisive and full of hard feelings.
...there's an awful lot of bickering in this thread. The OP itself seems a bit antagonistic (maybe not intentionally) and I get the feeling there might be some history behind it, or that it was carried over from other arguments. We shouldn't bicker like this amongst ourselves....can't these things be discussed cordially? Some things, like the concept of "trinity" are hard to understand and so we need to cut each other some slack...not everyone is a theological genius or has direct revelation of those things. Even understanding what someone else is getting at with their posts can be difficult....need to acknowledge that we may not always be understanding someone else's post correctly, and avoid accusations.I think of the bible as God's letters....if we love someone very much who has gone away on a very long trip we will cherish their letters to us. That said, I have seen some who do seem to idolize the bible in a way. I think sometimes it's because they lack experience of God by His Spirit, they don't really know the Lord very well in a living relational way, His nature/spirit and character. ( So maybe it would even be more to the point to address the root of the problem, whatever the case is.) Those who idolize the bible seem to kind of separate it from the Person of God, but then there can be those at the other end of the spectrum too, who over-emphasize experience and separate experience from God's word. We need God's letters in order to learn to know Him well, but we also need to know God to understand His letters properly, where He's coming from and what He's getting at.
I think it's really the Author of these letters we worship, not the letters themselves as such. But on the other hand it's hard to separate the Person from His words really. It's partly through their words that we get to know someone, as well as through our interactions with them. I just worry whether we should argue so hard about these things and let it become divisive and full of hard feelings.
First and foremoster... Show me one spot where it states that Jesus was telling a lie???... you can only use that if you are calling Jesus a liar... Jesus was full of Truth and Grace remember that.. And so you know that God turned the his face from the unfaithful...
Johann
Well-Known Member
Luk 4:17 [After the Hagbah], he was presented with the megillat sefer Yeshayah and having unrolled the megillah, he found the dvar where it had been written,
Luk 4:18 RUACH ADONAI HASHEM ALAI YAAN MASHACH ADONAI OTI LEVASER ANAVIM SHELACHANI LIKRO LISHVUYIM DEROR, and to the blind PEKACH KOACH, VSHALACH RETZUTZIM CHAFSHIM, (The Spirit of the Sovereign L-rd is upon me because He anointed me to preach Besuras HaGeulah to the poor, He has sent me to preach to the captives release and to the blind the recovery of sight, to set the oppressed free [YESHAYAH 61:1-2; 58:6], ...
OJB
No scrolls
Jesus is not God
The scriptures not the D'var of YHVH, or, "We" don't need to read the scriptures but rely on the "voice"...
Have you gone mad?
J.
J.
You can point to the person all you like but, if you do not submit to the person it is pointing to then you had learned nothing of what was read in the Bible...
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