Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What makes you think I am ignorant of how the Bible came to be?
I read quite a bit about how the 4th century turmoil of the collapsing Roman Empire drove uniformity throughout Christendom.
Agreed. All books can pass knowledge from one generation to the next. Scripture is not unique in that regard.
No. There is no need for personal attack. This thread is not about the frail theology of you or me or anyone else. This thread is about where you put your faith.
Don’t get me wrong. I love the Bible! I read several translations. However, it is just parchment, not holy in itself. What it is about is holy; the living God who made a plan for our salvation.
I previously referenced the 2C. No where in Scripture does it say God shares his glory with a book and you better worship the book as you do him, right?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Appeal to Strawman.
There you go again, falsely equating the word of God with the Bible.
Look at it this way. Jesus said he is the water of eternal life. This is holy. What container is used to old it, like the Bible, is just a container and is not holy, in and of itself.
Welcome Liz from Canada, if French speaking, then mine is very rusty...bienvenue sur ce site CB et profitez-en..
Just a couple of things off your post. 1. the 'we' is the problem as times. There are generally two-sides of this serious and sometimes heated discussion. Both sides claim the 'we'
2. spiritual breathing, again like in the first point, both sides claim they are performing this act along with testing the spirits.
And both sides are saying they are not in violation of God's word or defaming his character.
The true test is to examine one's heart and do a self-check that we have faith through the HS FIRST, and not scripture per se, for genuine faith in the persons of the Father and his Son. Yes, we came to Christ via the written and spoken words of the gospel, although the written word of God is activated and vibrant only with the present of the Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit of the Father comes FIRST to unlock scripture and not the other way around!!
Enjoy and I hope all is well up North.
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@Christophany
So A person has caused himself a dilemma, and supposedly struggled with his own dilemma for years, then poses his own caused “either or” dilemma to others...
Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?
* My Faith is a Gift from God to Believe IN Him and my Gifts are FROM Him.
I have no “either or” dilemma.
* God provides men with opportunity to receive many gifts from God.
* Faith is one gift from God.
* A man has freewill to Trust his Gifts are from God.
* Gods own Power provides a man a WAY, a man can Receive and Secure Gods gifts.
So A person has caused himself a dilemma, and supposedly struggled with his own dilemma for years, then poses his own caused “either or” dilemma to others...
Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?
* My Faith is a Gift from God to Believe IN Him and my Gifts are FROM Him.
I have no “either or” dilemma.
* God provides men with opportunity to receive many gifts from God.
* Faith is one gift from God.
* A man has freewill to Trust his Gifts are from God.
* Gods own Power provides a man a WAY, a man can Receive and Secure Gods gifts.
Johann
Well-Known Member
This forum is becoming as comical as Facebook, with play-actors on the stage, you know what a play actor is, don't you?
The scriptures not holy?
Rom_1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:2 Which Hashem promised beforehand through His Neviim in the Kitvei HaKodesh.
OJB
2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:15 And that from infancy you have known the Kitvei HaKodesh, which are able to make you chocham with a view to Yeshu'at Eloheynu through emunah in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua.
J.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
You made the accusation, “straw man”.
No, accurately.
Does your Bible have the word “Holy” imprinted on it?
So you imply it’s the UN-holy Bible then…
Stop reading whatever garbage corrupted you like this because it’s seeping out…
If you had any ounce of affinity to the Bible you wouldn’t be talking out of both sides of your mouth!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Ouch!
We are not talking about the many things in this world that are precious. We are talking about where you put your faith, a book or the living God.
Never been rebuked before? Rather than have me speculate, why don’t you share your reaction?
I love the word of God too. It’s just that I recognize the Bible merely contains it. For some reason, you are falsely equating the container with its holy contents.
My pastor spoke of men who turn the Bible into an idol. Some even turn specific translations into idols. Given the fruit of the Spirit is peace, you should ask yourself why my point offends you.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Other religions have what they call holy books. Calling something a certain word doesn’t make that thing that word.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
You should be highly suspicious of anyone who would bring forth such a damnable suggestion.
In the entire volume of the Bible there is not ONE instance of any of the idolatrous practices documented therein associated with the holy scriptures. NOT ONE!
Not even the Israelites who had them idolized them! Nor were they accused of idol worship when they did use them frequently.
They simply threw them aside so much that they were lost for a while until a priest by chance stumbled upon them and found them (2 Kings 22:8).
This whole talk of turning the Bible into an idol is just a way to attack faithful Bible believers and provide comfort to those who don’t read their Bibles much, if at all ever.
The bronze serpent that Moses made was turned into an idol and was destroyed as a result! (2 Kings 18:4)
Do you think destroying the holy scriptures because of an accusation of idol worship would be appropriate?
See what happened to this king when he destroyed a copy of the word of God (Jeremiah 36:29)
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Johann
Well-Known Member
I know where you are going with this Wynona and spot on.
J.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Well said..
Holy Scripture
2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Luke 24:13-27 ESV
That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. ...
2 Peter 1:21 ESV
For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20 ESV
Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
James 1:18 ESV
Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
John 16:13 ESV
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
John 17:17 ESV
Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
Isaiah 8:20 ESV
To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
Psalm 119:160 ESV
The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.
2 Peter 3:16 ESV
As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
1 Timothy 4:12 ESV
Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
Psalm 12:6 ESV
The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.
Mark 7:13 ESV
Thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
Matthew 4:4 ESV
But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Proverbs 30:5-6 ESV
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
Psalm 119:151 ESV
But you are near, O Lord, and all your commandments are true.
Revelation 22:18-19 ESV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
2 Timothy 3:15 ESV
And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 3:15 ESV
If I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.
Ephesians 1:13 ESV
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 Corinthians 11:2 ESV
Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.
1 Corinthians 4:6 ESV
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
1 Corinthians 2:13 ESV
And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:12 ESV
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
Acts 13:46 ESV
And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Acts 8:30-31 ESV
So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
John 21:25 ESV
Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
John 15:26 ESV
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
John 14:26 ESV
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 14:25 ESV
“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you.
John 10:35 ESV
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
John 6:63 ESV
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Mark 1:1-45 ESV
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, “Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way, the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,’” John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. ...
Matthew 28:20 ESV
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:19 ESV
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 24:35 ESV
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
2 Timothy 3:15-16 ESV
And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2 Thessalonians 2:15 ESV
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
Matthew 5:17-18 ESV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Don't waste your time on pseudo-"Christians" and play-actors, their portion is the lake of fire.
J.
Yes I don't know what you mean by that, never heard of it before. Maybe you've talked about it in other posts, but I'm new around here.
The Holy Spirit is a believer's teacher of all spiritual truth in life and in this world. It is truly the Spirit of life and our helper. It reveals what the word of God says, in time, as we seek and pray, and it is of the Father, for spiritual guidance. We pray and ask for example, is Jesus really God or is he a human person born by God, with his Father living inside of him, and he did not sin....
And did not men absent of the HS speaking to them, invent new ways to view scripture over time? And this actually happened over the many centuries and is still percolating today? Many pagans and philosophers alien to the truth and Holy Spirit dictated foreign interpretations of scripture and even supplemented it with their own books? They used the current thinking of men like Plato and Aristotle and later the philosopher of the 16th century and beyond, and new ones of today.
So what is really critical in grasping and knowing who is the one true God and his Son in scripture? Which is it then, believing scripture without the HS, or having the HS first in our lives, speaking to us in true faith and then to know the true word of God called scripture?
This is the challenge and argument here. One side says God is the Father only, and the other side says not true, because we have a Triune god eventhough it is not in the word of God. And the implication here is that those that believe in a Triune God is either ignoring the Holy Spirit in their lives for truth in this matter, or they really do not have the HS within them, period. And that is why they still believe and persist that Jesus is their one God Almighty.
Yes, it does hit nerves indeed as I've read already. To be expected..
And did not men absent of the HS speaking to them, invent new ways to view scripture over time? And this actually happened over the many centuries and is still percolating today? Many pagans and philosophers alien to the truth and Holy Spirit dictated foreign interpretations of scripture and even supplemented it with their own books? They used the current thinking of men like Plato and Aristotle and later the philosopher of the 16th century and beyond, and new ones of today.
So what is really critical in grasping and knowing who is the one true God and his Son in scripture? Which is it then, believing scripture without the HS, or having the HS first in our lives, speaking to us in true faith and then to know the true word of God called scripture?
This is the challenge and argument here. One side says God is the Father only, and the other side says not true, because we have a Triune god eventhough it is not in the word of God. And the implication here is that those that believe in a Triune God is either ignoring the Holy Spirit in their lives for truth in this matter, or they really do not have the HS within them, period. And that is why they still believe and persist that Jesus is their one God Almighty.
Yes, it does hit nerves indeed as I've read already. To be expected..
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