The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

[face2face]

Heresy

This type of Christian is further away from Christ than an unbeliever.

 

[MatthewG]

Everything is debatable

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Everything is debatable

That’s debatable…

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t have anything to say if you can’t read this.


Peoples beliefs are subjective to what they hold and deem true.

If they believe people are annihilated…

Doesn’t make sense to me personally but whatever you wanna believe is between you and God.

So many scriptures refute these types of things but others refute in which makes annihilation seem true.

There are people who believe Jesus death was only subjective to only certain “elect” people and God picks and chooses who he saves.



whatever you believe personally — doesn’t bother me, even if you think I’m some punk who doesn’t know crap.

Your life is lived subjective to God and what you know and decided to learn and study with use of the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

• What you believe is subjective and it’s personally to you, such as believing Jesus is still coming back which in my opinion is misuse of scripture which can be proven that Jesus was coming back to them in that time.

God bless you and take care.

I don’t care what you may believe which is subjective to you and your belief as far as you have come to understand the Bible. There is always room to grow.

 

[Aunty Jane]

> It is apparent that God's ideal for Adam and Eve was not achieved, which was for them to HAVE eternal life, BEFORE they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It was God’s first purpose to have a perfect race of beings (created “in his image”, with his qualities and attributes) to inhabit a carefully prepared earth that was created for them and a range of other creatures to inhabit forever. There were two specific trees in the garden mentioned in Genesis....the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” and the “tree of life”.

Only one of those trees was off limits and free access was provided to the other, because the partaking of either one would have an extraordinary impact on the ones partaking of them. One would give life...the other would result in death...(the only mention of death in Eden was connected to that one tree. TKGE) and to partake meant to transgress a clearly stated command, with very specific consequences. Death only came as a result of sin....so, no sin = no death.

God's judgment for them, was to exist in mortality with the expectation that they would "surely die".

Quite the opposite I believe....if they had obeyed God’s command there was access to the tree of life, which in reality meant everlasting life in their mortal flesh, never experiencing a “natural” cause of death. Mortality was not a guarantee that they would die...only that they could if they disobeyed God’s command. It was conditional.

Giving free willed beings immortality would have been a mistake. Being immortal means you cannot die.....nothing can kill you. But being granted ‘everlasting life’ even in mortal flesh was based on continued obedience to God, which makes sense. God never wanted robots who had no choices...he wanted humans to represent him here on this earth as caretakers of all that He had made. He gave them the best possible start and told them what he wanted them to do......to “fill the earth” (not just the garden) with their children and to “subdue” it....most people read right over that without understanding what it meant. The world outside the garden was untamed and it was part of man’s assignment to bring it all under his care and control....to “subdue” it.

Man would have had an incredible time spreading the boundaries of their paradise home to encompass the whole planet...all the while adding workers to the job. After thousands of years, imagine what might have been accomplished! If only they had obeyed! Yet, what God starts...he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11)

Sure death came to them and to all, because now the "tree of life" was no longer available to them that they could eat of it, which is to say that they never did eat of it in the first place. God never took away from them, that which they never participated in or had.

We have no idea what the tree of life was or what fruitage it grew, but only after they had transgressed God’s command was access denied....permanently. No sinner was ever going to partake of the tree of life and live forever! (Genesis 3:22-24)

Gen. 3[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
> Since there was "the shedding of blood", for the benefit of God making clothing out of animal skins for them, can we say that their sin was forgiven them? I am not sure.

This is an assumption that the Bible does not mention. We have no idea whether animals were in fact killed to provide these skins.....angels materialised in human form fully clothed, so the garments may have been provided without killing anything. In fact, there was not a single declaration of remorse from either of them, when we know that repentance is essential for forgiveness. Adam and his wife thereafter rate little mention, not even Adam, except in genealogies.

Because they were created sinless, there was no basis upon which to forgive these wilful transgressors of God’s clearly stated command. Jesus’ blood covers all of Adam’s descendants because they inherited sin through no fault on their part. (Romans 5:12)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Continued....

Edit #1: As a result God Himself lost not only them (us), but also His opportunity to LIVE WITHIN THEM (US) forever.
However, before the foundation of the world, God had a plan, of which He was going to enact upon through and by His only Son. Let us all thank God for Jesus and His sacrifice to save us from eternal death, through faith in Him.

Again, I have to disagree...the expression “before the founding of the world” doesn’t mean the creation of the earth....the “world” here is the “cosmos” or the world of mankind. So this expression is referring to the beginning of the human race that started after Adam and his wife had sinned. There was no plan for Adam and his wife to fail and bring death to the human race....why would God deliberately sabotage his own plans for his lovingly and carefully prepared earth?

Giving his human creation free will was the same as giving his angelic sons the same gift. He will not force any free willed being to serve his interests, but will tell them what will happen if they are tempted to disobey him. As the Creator, Jehovah holds the position of Sovereign and as his creation, we have an obligation to obey his direction. He is the ultimate benevolent dictator and we all need that kind of leadership. All he ever wanted to do was make us happy and give us a wonderful life, enjoying his gifts.....but for some, it wasn’t enough.

Edit #2: For all who think that this global Earth (ground) is going to be spared/saved, know that it has been cursed, and shall remain so, as long as there is mortal men/women on it.
"cursed is the ground [Earth] for thy sake;"

I believe it is safe to say that the curse God made on the ground was to allow Adam to fully realise what he had thrown away. It appears to have been lifted after the flood, since the earth itself became very productive, especially is this seen in Bible times. The Promised Land for example was described as “a land flowing with milk and honey”.....Moses had told the spies he had sent out to observe the inhabitants and to bring back samples of the land’s produce. One product that particularly attracted their attention, was not far from Hebron, where they found a vineyard where the grapes were so large that it took two of the spies to carry just one cluster. This does not indicate a curse on the ground.....does it?

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is Jesus simply teaching that anyone in the earth can worship God in Spirit and in Truth

We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. is coming—and now is here—when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. John 4:23-24

I could go into the history of the Samaritans to show the context to which the Lord's teaching, but it appears your quote isn't proving what you want it to prove, so that would be a waste of time.

I guess the one thing you need to understand is that you have no credibility as a teacher, and you seem to assume that no one knows all the facts except you. What makes you think you need to teach me about the history of the Samaritans?
Good grief man, you sure have tickets on yourself...

I think I've said this before...its best if you use the strongest quotes to support your understanding.

It wouldn’t matter what I presented, or what scripture I used, because you have fingers in both ears, and cannot hear anything that said to you.....I’m done. When you get tired of hanging out there all by yourself, let me know.....OK?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I thought the kingdom was up in heaven?

That is what Jesus said....and because those who were chosen to rule with Christ are called “kings and priests”, (Revelation 20:6) that would be pretty useless unless they had subjects to rule and sinners for whom to perform their priestly duties. Since kings do not rule each other, and there are no sinners in heaven, Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God’s kingdom to “come” so that God’s will could “be done on earth as it is in heaven”. The kingdom will rule from heaven over a cleansed earth...this is what the Bible teaches. (Revelation 21:2 4)

If all the Christians go to heaven, that makes the earth nothing more than a cruel training ground...what kind of loving God would purposely do that to the children he created and claimed to cherish?

 

[face2face]

(Revelation 20:6) (Revelation 21:2 4)

The ignorance is astounding!

Jane you have no knowledge of covenants from what you have shown so far. You dont know the covenant in Eden and the covenant with David you have trampled all over in your posts.

Exodus 19:5 And now, if you will diligently listen to me and keep my covenant, then you will be my special possession out of all the nations, for all the earth is mine, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Firstly we know they broke the covenant but what was in God's mind for Israel?

Exodus 19:5 was a song which identifies with it's promise in Exodus 19:6. Now natural Israel failed to attain but the Redeemed as per 1 Peter 2:9 will attain it in the earth.

Those who are "the Israel of God" as per Galatians 6:16 & Ephesians 2:11-14

The Glory & Dominion promised is seen in the Saints of God (Kings & Priests) to rule and bring order to a corrupt world.

As quoted but ignored by Jane in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 at that time sin and death will have been completely eliminated from the earth, and Yahweh's purpose to fill it with His glory will have been brought to fulfillment as per Numbers 14:21.

Nowhere in all the OT is the promise of Heaven going revealed to Israel - nowhere!
Nowhere in all the NT is the promise of Heaven going revealed to Spiritual Israel - nowhere!

Jane, your organization has fabricated this story from one misrepresented verse which is highly symbolic, yes, its that imagery thing again which you keep stumbling and tripping over time and time again.

Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband.

Maybe you dont know what the word descending means?

descending - "moving downwards"

Where was it made ready?

The Kingdom of Heaven

F2F

 

[Dropship]

It's of Heaven - Meaning it's coming from Heaven...that's the whole point of the Lord's Prayer. It astounds me how many Christians dont even know and understand the Lords prayer....staggering.

“Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, (HOW??) your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

I mean its God's Master Plan laid out to all generations. @Aunty Jane (you cant ignore the red text!)

Habbaukuk 2:14 Heb “for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, just as the waters cover over the sea.”.

Also Number 14:21 But truly, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord.

It's everywhere man! lol

F2F

Them verses are simply open to different interpretations..:)
Why should anybody want to be stuck on earth instead of up in heaven?

 

[face2face]

Them verses are simply open to different interpretations..:)
Why should anybody want to be stuck on earth instead of up in heaven?

Ha lol because the earth is God's footstool!
You understand what that means right?

 

[Dropship]

..those who were chosen to rule with Christ are called “kings and priests”...Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God’s kingdom to “come” so that God’s will could “be done on earth as it is in heaven”. The kingdom will rule from heaven over a cleansed earth...this is what the Bible teaches. (Revelation 21:2 4)
If all the Christians go to heaven, that makes the earth nothing more than a cruel training ground...what kind of loving God would purposely do that to the children he created and claimed to cherish?

Let's cut through the mumbo-jumbo..:)
The earth is simply a "testing ground" here and now to see if we qualify for heaven-
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)
Satan is like a cruel drill instructor trying to make us flunk..:)-

"I want your D.O.R. boy!"

 

[Dropship]

Ha lol because the earth is God's footstool!
You understand what that means right?

If you want to stay on earth good luck to you; but I prefer to take a ride to a better place..:)
"And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens" (Mark 13:27)

 

[face2face]

If you want to stay on earth good luck to you; but I prefer to take a ride to a better place..:)
"And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens" (Mark 13:27)

And gather he will do...much work before the Kingdom is ready for delivery! 1 Corinthians 15:24.(Jesus and the Saints delivering it UP!)

It's funny really we have the Kingdom of God descending from Heaven and then at the end of the Kingdom age its handed to the Father as a pure offering in obedience when God will dwell with man.

Heaven is in order - earth is out of order ;)

 

[face2face]

Satan is like a cruel drill instructor trying to make us flunk..:)-

The Christian concept of a fallen angel is nowhere to be found in the Bible. Jane & I have been thrashing it out for weeks and so far I have got no evidence from her!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let's cut through the mumbo-jumbo..:)
The earth is simply a "testing ground" here and now to see if we qualify for heaven-
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)
Satan is like a cruel drill instructor trying to make us flunk..:)

I think your god is cruel and malicious....why would he do that?
Did the angels have to be humans, tortured on earth and tested with pain, suffering and tragedy before being allowed into heaven?
God never intended for us to go to heaven. Please show us where he ever offered that to Adam.

 

[Earburner]

I don’t have anything to say if you can’t read this.


Peoples beliefs are subjective to what they hold and deem true.

If they believe people are annihilated…

Doesn’t make sense to me personally but whatever you wanna believe is between you and God.

So many scriptures refute these types of things but others refute in which makes annihilation seem true.

There are people who believe Jesus death was only subjective to only certain “elect” people and God picks and chooses who he saves.



whatever you believe personally — doesn’t bother me, even if you think I’m some punk who doesn’t know crap.

Your life is lived subjective to God and what you know and decided to learn and study with use of the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

• What you believe is subjective and it’s personally to you, such as believing Jesus is still coming back which in my opinion is misuse of scripture which can be proven that Jesus was coming back to them in that time.

God bless you and take care.

I don’t care what you may believe which is subjective to you and your belief as far as you have come to understand the Bible. There is always room to grow.

Luke 12:49-53
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled?
[50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
[52] For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.....

 

[Earburner]

Only one of those trees was off limits and free access was provided to the other, because the partaking of either one would have an extraordinary impact on the ones partaking of them. One would give life...the other would result in death...(the only mention of death in Eden was connected to that one tree. TKGE) and to partake meant to transgress a clearly stated command, with very specific consequences. Death only came as a result of sin....so, no sin = no death.

My point was: Adam and Eve were created having only innocence, being totally void of the knowledge of evil or good. It is apparent that A&E never ate from the tree of Life, because if they had, they would've recieved the Gift of eternal life and LIVE FOREVER, having only the knowledge good and evil through God, and NOT by way of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Gen.3[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Who do you think the word "us" is in reference to?

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe Its understandable you have given scripture, which you see as objective truth, so is it in the first post.

The question is what do you tell the grieving person who just had a brother lose his life?

Wasn’t it Jesus who promised resurrection in John 5:28-29?

How do comfort them expect to remind them of the resurrection; which ever resurrection it is is given by God however there is an end spectrum people dismiss and that is Revelation 22.

So sure you can use scripture all you want however you can never remove the hope for an individual who has faith in God who is good and had a purpose for everything and though no not everyone will be in the Kingdom with God he still has a place for them outside the kingdom if you ask me personally.

People can call it false doctrine; people can call me a heretic;

Isn’t it the Holy Spirit that brings comfort and is Jesus and his words true in which spoke which was shared?

Up to you to decide. I believe in Jesus totally victory not half way.

No, that isn't the question. We aren't discussing what to tell a grieving person. The locus of the discussion is the resurrection, specifically the Biblical teaching concerning the resurrection of the dead. The Bible teaches us that a man's disposition in the coming age depends on his faith and hope, his heart attitude, and his strength of character.

With regard to those who grieve, we should never forget what our brother Paul wrote to the Thessalonian churches, concerning the dead. "[W]e do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus." (emphasis mine) Here the apostle contrasts those who have no hope and those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. Those who have no hope have cause to grieve, while the disciples of Jesus will not grieve over those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. Paul reserved no hope for those who are not in Jesus, and so neither should we. We should not lie to the grieving, giving them false hope. We shouldn't say anything because we don't know whether the deceased was "in Jesus."

In addition, we should not rob the grieving person the opportunity to repent. Awareness of our finitude and the inevitability of our death is merciful inducement, coming from above, to lead us to repentance and to seek out the mercy of God while we still have time. But the precious time is limited. Telling someone that life didn't matter, that all end up in the same place, victimizes the living. Your cold comfort is like a thief that comes in to steal. At some point, we must all face the stark reality of death, if we are going to do something about it before we expire.

Finally, I should remind you that at a certain point, after the general resurrection of the dead, THERE IS NO PLACE OUTSIDE.

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

You suppose a place outside the kingdom but he tells you "there is no place found for them."

 

[MatthewG]

You still intended to address your subjecitve belief without taking time to look into what I suggested about Revelation 22.

So sure you can believe what you want that is fine and I don’t look down on you because you are doing such.

My hope is God to get his will and not what man believes his will is. That would be having all confess the name of the Lord Yeshua, either in this life or in the afterlife.

Though many believe that there is no second chances, or that type of rhetoric, however it never says that so explicitly in the text itself.

The argument to go against what I’m saying doesn’t matter to me, @CadyandZoe