The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

[face2face]

Well this just made me smile.....you forget it isn’t only me....I have an entire brotherhood (over 8.5 million) who are found all over the world and who believe exactly as I do....what about you.....? Oh the irony....

1.3 Billion Catholics in the earth and you lean on 8.5 million to prove your credibility lol.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So you believe Jesus remains in Heaven? For how long?

He remains in heaven forever because that is where he came from. He will never be a human again...he finished that role back in the first century....All of his elect will also remain in their spiritual state.

Where did Christ go to “prepare a place” for his disciples? Hint...it wasn’t earth. (John 14:1-3; 1 Peter 1:3-4)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Really simple but not for many Christians they make a hash of it.

Yes, very simple unless you want to introduce a whole range of invented stuff that comes out of your own imagination.....unless there are others who agree with what you believe it cannot be the truth.....
Would God reveal his truth only to one bloke in Oz?

1.3 Billion Catholics in the earth and you lean on 8.5 million to prove your credibility lol.

At least they have some numbers.....what do you have?
They are easy to prove wrong....and don’t look now but I believe I can prove you wrong too...but whether you believe me or just want to cling to what you want to believe is entirely up to you.

 

[face2face]

He remains in heaven forever because that is where he came from. He will never be a human again...he finished that role back in the first century....All of his elect will also remain in their spiritual state.

Where did Christ go to “prepare a place” for his disciples? Hint...it wasn’t earth. (John 14:1-3; 1 Peter 1:3-4)

And prepare they do.

“Jane, why do you stand here looking up into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven.”

Kingdom of Heaven Jane - He's bringing it to earth!

It just occurred to me how many prophecies you would need to ignore to hold that teaching.

1 Peter 1:5 who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rev 22:20 “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

Jane when you pray you must say "Stay Lord Jesus?"

 

[face2face]

At least they have some numbers.....what do you have?
They are easy to prove wrong....and don’t look now but I believe I can prove you wrong too...but whether you believe me or just want to cling to what you want to believe is entirely up to you.

It's a dangerous practice claiming strength in numbers.
Very revealing it is.

 

[face2face]

@Aunty Jane

How do you interpret this parable Luke 19:12?

How do you interpret the Coming of the Son of Man Matthew 24:27, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:37, Matthew 24:39, Matthew 24:48; Matthew 25:27; Matthew 26:64)

 

[Aunty Jane]

And prepare they do.

“Jane, why do you stand here looking up into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven.”

Kingdom of Heaven Jane - He's bringing it to earth!

Yes he is....but he does not need to personally return to earth to do that. Bringing his rulership to the earth means blessings for redeemed mankind. It is how God returns mankind to their original state.

Jesus was to return in the same way (manner) as he left....so how did he leave? The world at large was unaware of his ascension.....and only his closest companions witnessed it.

It just occurred to me how many prophecies you would need to ignore to hold that teaching.

1 Peter 1:5 who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Rev 22:20 “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

Jane when you pray you must say "Stay Lord Jesus?"

Oh please....the word according to F2F again....
The only reason why you can’t interpret prophesy is because you think you already have it all figured out...one error leads you to another as you keep inventing scenarios and imagery that comes right out of your imagination......do you know why? Because there is no one to proof read what you say.....

As I always say....’the man who teaches himself has a fool for a teacher’. Jesus provides those teachers. But there is nothing to demonstrate who his teachers are.....satan provides so many that it’s hard to know.....so it is comforting to know that the only ones who can come to the Father are those who are teachable. He will “draw” such ones into one brotherhood, just as he did in the first century. (John 6:44: John 6:65)

It's a dangerous practice claiming strength in numbers.
Very revealing it is.

What’s revealing is to have no numbers at all....you keep avoiding this huge elephant in the room.

 

[face2face]

Where did Christ go to “prepare a place” for his disciples? Hint...it wasn’t earth. (John 14:1-3; 1 Peter 1:3-4)

Have you studied John 14 Jane? And considered what the Lord was referring to there, or just told by your community it means your going to Heaven if you are found worthy and Christ is staying up there?

 

[face2face]

Jesus was to return in the same way (manner) as he left....so how did he leave? The world at large was unaware of his ascension.....and only his closest companions witnessed it.

I read through this response looking for something to respond to but nothing.

What does the above mean?

How does the red text have anything at all to do with the same manner in which he is to return?

(head shake moment)

You would be out of step with early believers that's for sure.

"wait for his Son from heaven . . . which delivereth us from the wrath to come" 1 Thessalonians 1:10
"what is our hope or joy? Are not ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?" 1 Thessalonians 2:19
"he may stablish your hearts unblameable . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints" 1 Thessalonians 3:13
"the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout" 1 Thessalonians 4:16
"the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" 1 Thessalonians 5:2
"I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Thessalonians 5:23

Your 8.5 million fellow believers are working against you, not for you Jane!

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane

How do you interpret this parable Luke 19:12?

How do you interpret the Coming of the Son of Man Matthew 24:27, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:37, Matthew 24:39, Matthew 24:48; Matthew 25:27; Matthew 26:64)

Not the same as you would apparently....am I the only one who talks to you?

The questions are like gunfire, but return fire is hardly delivered before the next round is fired.
Can you give me time to address what you have said....or I will just have to leave you to your own devices....I will never agree with your interpretation, so if you are addressing me in order to hard sell your own interpretation of the scriptures......don’t bother.

We believe that Jesus has already ‘returned’ and that all the “signs” he gave in Matthew 24:3-14 are in the process of completion......Jesus would not need to give a series of world events as a “sign” of his “presence” (parousia) if his return was an obvious single event.

It is my understanding that Jesus’ “presence” is a separate event to his “coming” as judge......and that these “last days” are for him to direct the preaching work that he commanded to be done “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) He is also at work separating the “sheep from the goats”....the “wheat from the weeds”. By the time he manifests as judge, he will already have made his determinations by observing how people respond to the message about the Kingdom, preached in all the world by his obedient disciples. Again it fits in with all of what scripture teaches, minus all your embellishments.

 

[face2face]

Not the same as you would apparently....am I the only one who talks to you?

The questions are like gunfire, but return fire is hardly delivered before the next round is fired.
Can you give me time to address what you have said....or I will just have to leave you to your own devices....I will never agree with your interpretation, so if you are addressing me in order to hard sell your own interpretation of the scriptures......don’t bother.

We believe that Jesus has already ‘returned’ and that all the “signs” he gave in Matthew 24:3-14 are in the process of completion......Jesus would not need to give a series of world events as a “sign” of his “presence” (parousia) if his return was an obvious single event.

It is my understanding that Jesus’ “presence” is a separate event to his “coming” as judge......and that these “last days” are for him to direct the preaching work that he commanded to be done “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) He is also at work separating the “sheep from the goats”....the “wheat from the weeds”. By the time he manifests as judge, he will already have made his determinations by observing how people respond to the message about the Kingdom, preached in all the world by his obedient disciples. Again it fits in with all of what scripture teaches, minus all your embellishments.

It looks Spiritually weak.
Do you believe David's throne to be in Heaven or on earth?
2 Samuel 7:16 Your house and your kingdom will stand before me permanently; your dynasty will be permanent. The promise God made to David was a person in his line would always sit on his throne? That is why I asked you whether you believed David's throne was in Heaven which clearly it must be for God to fulfill His Word to David. Even the Lords birth highlights it! Luke 1:31-33 and the 12 tribes judge by the twelve disciples etc. 1 Corinthians 6:2 Matthew 19:28. (this is a real issue for you because neither have occurred!)

It's an unusual belief Jane - do you know of any other denominations who belief such things? The Bible is so clear Christ will be sitting in the throne of David on Earth but by moving everything to Heaven you create an entirely different picture of the Kingdom age!

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

What does the above mean?

How does the red text have anything at all to do with the same manner in which he is to return?


You would be out of step with early believers that's for sure.

Christ would return in the same way as he left.....no one saw him go except his closest companions.
The world was unaware of his departure. So if he was to return the same way...the world at large would also be unaware of his return. He had to give his disciples a “sign” so that they would know when he was “present”....not “coming”. The events were monumental, so no one would be able to explain them away.....but I know many do...we see 1914 as the beginning of the last days

The words of his apostles when he left, showed that they did not fully understand the manner of his return.
They said to him “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” The kingdom was still 2000 years away but they did not need to know that.
He also told them....
“He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.”
As Jews their scripture taught them to expect a human messiah who would restore Israel to its proper position....but that was in the future......as time went on Jesus spoke of a “faithful and wise slave” as part of his prophesy on the end of the system of things. (Matthew 24:45) These would instruct his disciples by giving them what they needed to know, when they needed to know it, no one was aware of the timeframe of the prophesied events because Daniel had said the only at the “time of the end” would understanding be given. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)

The Israel of Bible prophesy after Jesus denounced the fleshly nation, was a completely new “Israel”....”the Israel of God” were not just fleshly Jews but were made up of a faithful Jewish “remnant” (as it was prophesied) and the faithful ones who came out of the nations. (Acts 15:14)

Your 8.5 million fellow believers are working against you, not for you Jane!

And your zero fellow believers are doing what for you? Are you in denial by any chance....?

(head shack moment)

Perhaps you should stop shaking your head and listen.....maybe you’re the one whose got it all wrong?

 

[Dropship]

Topic title-The Resurrection is for all people
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, Jesus said:- "All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28-29)
"Pray..that you will be able to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36)

So all atheists and nonchristians had better have a good excuse ready..

 

[face2face]

Christ would return in the same way as he left.....no one saw him go except his closest companions.
The world was unaware of his departure. So if he was to return the same way...the world at large would also be unaware of his return. He had to give his disciples a “sign” so that they would know when he was “present”....not “coming”. The events were monumental, so no one would be able to explain them away.....but I know many do...we see 1914 as the beginning of the last days

You offered nothing at all on Jesus ascending David's throne.

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst . . . " (Zechariah 14:4)

I find it odd your denomination for all its care and discernment cannot see the Lord physically and visably returning to the earth to establish God's Kingdom.

I mean Christ will literally return to the mountain from which he left. (Acts of the Apostles 1:10,11)

They succinct beauty in those two references along shoot so many holes in your Heaven going theology.

You can't get any clearer meaning than "in like manner as he left he will return"

It's another sign you dont have the complete picture.

F2F

 

[face2face]

It's not just that you @Aunty Jane deny the return, something which Jesus warned false teachers would say, the detail in which his return is so precise you cannot argue its fulfillment. To David's house he said they would look on "me whom they have pierced Zechariah 12:10 compare Zechariah 13:6.

Jane how can this take place if he remains in Heaven ?(see Revelation 1:7 "and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindred of the earth shall wail because of him."

Are you pulling the wool over my eyes? Feel like you are baiting me! So many passages you remove - crazy amount of unfulfilled prophecy and what of the parables he taught?

It never ceases to amaze me how religious bodies latch onto an idea which is entirely false then disregard loads of text and passage to deceive themselves into thinking this is truth.

Imagine the disappointment when it doesn't go as planned. 8.5 Million who will need to change their views...and if they are anything like you can you imagine their difficulty? You cant even acknowledge the smallest of truths! How will you repent in that day Jane?

It's God's work that's for sure.

 

[face2face]

Topic title-The Resurrection is for all people
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, Jesus said:- "All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28-29)
"Pray..that you will be able to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36)

So all atheists and nonchristians had better have a good excuse ready..

It's not for all people that was proved very quickly in the discussion....now the thread has been abducted lol.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It looks Spiritually weak.

Anything that disagrees with your interpretation appears to be “spiritually weak” to you. Are you the best arbiter of what is truth? I am looking for a brotherhood that supports what you believe....but you always dodge the question.

Do you believe David's throne to be in Heaven or on earth?
2 Samuel 7:16 Your house and your kingdom will stand before me permanently; your dynasty will be permanent. The promise God made to David was a person in his line would always sit on his throne? That is why I asked you whether you believed David's throne was in Heaven which clearly it must be for God to fulfill His Word to David. Even the Lords birth highlights it! Luke 1:31-33 and the 12 tribes judge by the twelve disciples etc. 1 Corinthians 6:2 Matthew 19:28. (this is a real issue for you because neither have occurred!)

Why does the throne of David have to be on earth? Where was the seat of God’s worship in Jesus’ day?
Literal Mount Zion was the location of God’s temple then, but do you see that today?
Do you understand what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well?
John 4:20-22...she said to him.....
“Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews.”

There will be no geographical location on earth for God’s worship because Heavenly Mount Zion is where God’s spiritual temple is located.
Hebrews 12:22-23...
“But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect.”

It's an unusual belief Jane - do you know of any other denominations who belief such things?

Do you understand what it means when Jesus spoke of the “wheat and the weeds”? At the time of the harvest (fast approaching) the wheat would be totally separated from the weeds.....so any similarity between the wheat and the weeds demonstrates that they aren’t separated.....we are in no agreement with Christendom’s church doctrines at all. Jesus foretold a “cleansing, and refining” of his worshippers in “the time of the end”. (Daniel 12:9-10) So what would be the point of cleansing what is not soiled? What would be the point of refining if there are no impurities? The wicked would not accept the cleansing....and would therefore receive no insight or understanding.

The Bible is so clear Christ will be sitting in the throne of David on Earth but by moving everything to Heaven you create an entirely different picture of the Kingdom age!

Not really.....Do you somehow believe that Israel was not chosen as God’s nation....his people? Did God need to be physically present to direct his people? No! He did so through his human representatives. The throne of David is located in heavenly Jerusalem.....because no physical location on earth will be the location of God’s kingdom.....it is in heaven, it doesn’t need to be on earth.

And for @Dropship’s benefit the ones chosen as God’s elect are resurrected to heaven to rule over those of redeemed mankind on earth.....simple.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It seems like being throw into the all consuming fire that is God and having things about oneself burned away? Perhaps similar to a refinement fire. Jesus was said to come baptizing in the Holy Spirit and fire.

Those thrown into the lake of fire are destroyed forever. Gone. Never to be seen again. Never.

 

[MatthewG]

Those thrown into the lake of fire are destroyed forever. Gone. Never to be seen again. Never.

What are speaking of?

 

[Dropship]

..And for @Dropship’s benefit the ones chosen as God’s elect are resurrected to heaven to rule over those of redeemed mankind on earth.....simple.

Huh? If people are "redeemed" why are they left on earth?