Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Not everybody will tell us how old they are. I like to know how old people, sometimes, when I reply to their posts.
Jesus left us with the assignment to make disciples,
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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Thanks Vicky for your response maam. Let me address your questions:
We are discussing this in another area Vicky, so I will not comment on it here
Jim Morrisons words of wisdom Bob, people are strange. I am pretty well open in most things, likely because I have accepted who and what I am.
That's a foundational issue: you're preaching at people Robert.
You don't know them, let alone love them. And without that love, it doesn't matter what you say or how many Bible verses you quote or if you were to literally speaking with the tongue of angels: you don't love. Loving requires seeing the person as a person, their individual concerns and beliefs.
Are you willing to spend the time to listen/understand/respect what they believe, the way you wish they would for you?
Are you willing to see their love of Christ, the way you wish to see your own?
Are you willing to attend and listen to their services, the way you wish they'd come to a Kingdom Hall?
Unless your answer is a resounding "YES!!", then you're not loving them- you're not even seeing them as a person. You're just a clanging cymbal, and people can see that emptiness/hypocrisy a mile away.
Personally I believe the assignment from Jesus is love of neighbor. It may not seem loving for those who choose not to accept the message, but that is their prerogative. Let me ask you personally, what do you find so bad about our message Maam?
As to whether I or any of my faith are willing to sit down with others, I think you know the answer to that, no doubt there is some who are willing to in many faiths, but all of us have willingly given ourselves over to God's service, it takes many hours in making a disciple, teaching them to observe all the things Jesus commanded. And keep this in mind, most of those whom you teach will reject the message, or at least do nothing with it for progression. Take a lesson from the parable of the sower maam. Mat 13:3-8, 18-23 Jesus gives the meaning.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
The Bible shows true loving your neighbor. In the parable of the Good Samaritan, the people of the existing religious structure (so in your modern equivalent that'll be a JW Elder and Publisher) do not help the injured man. Instead it is a man scorned by the existing religious structure (so in your equivalent any non-JW) that helps the injured man. And no, he doesn't sit him down for a rehearsed "Bible study". No, instead he tends to his wounds- listening to his concerns and what's going on with him. After taking a man to an inn for rest, the Good Samaritan pays for his further care, again not preaching at him or urging him to join his faith. He didn't need to preach at him: the fact that he was somebody who kept the Second Great Commandment was plain enough without words.
Christ Himself served countless people, helping them without strings attached. He ate with sinners, saints. and all manners of people. He didn't require you to be part of an organization or consider the tax collector a "bad association". He didn't shun the sinner. He listened to people's concerns and helped them where they were hurting & needed help. He didn't care if you were of which flock/nation/people/class, and didn't cared if you accepted His message. He loved you and served you. He taught with words only a fraction of the time, and seldom actually quoted scripture at people (exception for the gotcha-type questions posed by the supposed religious authorities).
@Robert Gwin , I like you. I want you to do as Christ taught and did. Not as the WatchTower instructs (shunning, "bad association", forbidden to be with sinners, hypocrisy, shut ears & eyes, etc). Christ saw & served every individual. Not rehearsed Bible verses at, but saw & served them.
Yes sir that is absolutely correct, but were you intending this to be posted to me as I am not seeing how it relates to what you had me in quote saying.
Yes Jesus is the epitome of love maam. You are quite mistaken about the people of God not belonging to an "organization" however. God's covenanted people were a nation, as we are today, in Jesus' day they were governed as we are today as well. We have laws we have to adhere to given to us in the Bible. God is not a God of disorder maam, rather from the time we accepted the first covenant we have been an organized people of God. True, after the new covenant went into effect, a prophesied apostasy began, and would not end until the end of the appointed times of the nations, which began our last days of this system, but during these last days, God would again gather His people, yes to His house to learn about Him and walk in His ways as prophesied in Isa 2:2-4. Meditate on those verses and see if you can pick out 4 things to identify the people of God. The Bible does identify His people beyond any doubt Jane.
I addressed that, is there something else you wanted to ask maam? If you want me to address shunning, I sure will. Jehovahs' witnesses do not shun in the way God requires. They overlook the passage that you are to admonish him as a brother found at 2 Thes 3:14,15 but we would not have association other than seeking to help that one return to Jehovah.
God was clear on how you are to treat those who practice serious sins:
(1 Corinthians 5:11-13) . . .I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”
(2 John 9-11) . . .Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.
This is a very loving arrangement designed to protect the Congregation of God, and to help one see their need to return to God's protective wing. Those shunned who have not sinned against the holy spirit can repent and return to the flock. An example of sinning against the holy spirit is found at Heb 6:4-6 if an anointed Christian leaves the faith, God will not accept them back, but since we cannot know for certain that they were actually anointed, we allow them to return as well. If they were anointed, they will not be accepted by God however as you see in His word maam.
If you do not find this to be a loving arrangement from God, I suggest you take it up with Him, but if you meditate on it, I think you will find it is a very wise requirement on His part. Thanks as well for pointing out another area in which we obey God's word where other faiths overlook it.
And yet: Jesus the Son of God had all sorts of associations with sinners. He ate with them, listened to their concerns, served them, and told parables of people outside of the "flock" being those whom acted the way God instructs (such as the Good Samaritan). He violated the rules preached by the religious leaders, and he did not punish sinners and instead forgive.
Do you follow Christ and His example? No.
When you ask me a question, I think it best I answer it, correct? My answer is quite different from yours maam as the answer is obviously yes. Do I not come here to preach the good news of the Kingdom? Do I not reason with you and others on the Scriptures? Most of my associates are not from my faith, in fact I am going bicycling with a friend whom I used to work with this very day. It is better to know someone before you make a false accusation about them. Jesus did not come to bring the righteous to repentance as he clearly stated Jane, nor do we. We are out to help rightly disposed ones who have not yet been reached, or because of changing circumstances are now willing to listen to the words we have been authorized to give to others.
It is true that Jesus violated the rules that the false christs who were over the flock had invoked, but who did God accept in the end maam, they or Jesus? They tried to pull the same on Jesus' apostles after he was gone, what was their reply? Acts 5:29 maam. I will admit we are still plagued by those who put men above God as we were then, but I don't think you can righteously make that claim about me, but of course if you actually have any evidence I do so, I will be most happy to listen. All things I post here are in writing, so your accusation should be easy to prove don't you think?
I’m an evidence driven person. Christ ate with sinners. You practice and preach the opposite. Hence the conclusion.
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Really? Who was the one I ate with yesterday during my bike ride maam? You see, prior to making silly accusations, you really should present actual evidence.
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
So did those disciples continue to make disciples, or are there no disciples now sir?
?
I am attempting to reconcile your actions with the speech I’ve heard from JW including yourself and others at Kingdom Halls.
Is this man your friend?
Do you love him? (in a platanic way obviously)
What about his existing beliefs do you celebrate?
If he were to get married at his church, would you go?
How do you serve him? I’m not asking preaching at him.
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