Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

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Blue Dragonfly's

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Telling the truth is arrogant.....? LOL You just do not like the truth. Now...has anybody told you that you are like a nagging wife?
Get back to the topic.
If you're an intellectual,with respect , not intended to imply you're not, I'd suggest you not resort to their diatribe to rebut their posts.

In every Bible forum we find posers playing our role just to stir trouble on the forum. They argue an anti-gospel,butcher the scriptures in the process, and then mock those who have actually read and respect the Bible.

In my view, anyone who insists Jesus was just a man are reminiscent of Satan who thought the same thing.
Which is why during Jesus' fast he tempted him by saying, if you are the son of God.

Which is one of the anti-gospel doctrinaire launching points against the divinity of Jesus.

It's also evidence 1 Corinthians 2:14 is valid today.

Of course the devil could attempt to tempt Jesus. He's the devil.
This effort does not mean Jesus was able to succumb to temptation.
Yet another factor AGD's don't understand.
Just as 1Corinthians 2:14 said.
 
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Grailhunter

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Telling the truth is totally beside the point, as I've said several times now. Your general manner of "conversation" literally drips with arrogance. I've been quite clear about that. You're just avoiding it. I get it, but it is what it is.


Quite ridiculous, and non sequitur on top of that.


Nope. And if you think so, you have no idea how much I don't care. :)


I will when you repent. :) Anyway, for the past few posts, you have been the topic. That would be in keeping with the narcissist that you seem to be. :)

Go consult with your Bible and see what it says about haughtiness and arrogance (i.e., Psalm 94:4, Proverbs 16:5, Proverbs 21:24, 1 Corinthians 13:4, James 4:16), Grailhunter.

Grace and peace to you.

Get back to the topic...quit nagging
 

PinSeeker

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If you're an intellectual,with respect , not intended to imply you're not, I'd suggest you not resort to their diatribe to rebut their posts.

In every Bible forum we find posers playing our role just to stir trouble on the forum. They argue an anti-gospel,butcher the scriptures in the process, and then mock those who have actually read and respect the Bible.

In my view, anyone who insists Jesus was just a man are reminiscent of Satan who thought the same thing.
Which is why during Jesus' fast he tempted him by saying, if you are the son of God.

Which is one of the anti-gospel doctrinaire launching points against the divinity of Jesus.

It's also evidence 1 Corinthians 2:14 is valid today.

Of course the devil could attempt to tempt Jesus. He's the devil.
This effort does not mean Jesus was able to succumb to temptation.
Yet another factor AGD's don't understand.
Just as 1Corinthians 2:14 said.
Hmmm... Satan knew exactly Who Jesus was, Blue Dragonfly. And still does, and always will. He could tempt Jesus, because he was well aware that Jesus, though God, had emptied Himself and taken the form of man, just as Paul said in Philippians 2. Of course, Satan knew that long before Paul actually wrote it... :)

Grace and peace to you.
 
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Blue Dragonfly's

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Hmmm... Satan knew exactly Who Jesus was, Blue Dragonfly. And still does, and always will. He could tempt Jesus, because he was well aware that Jesus, though God, had emptied Himself and taken the form of man, just as Paul said in Philippians 2. Of course, Satan knew that long before Paul actually wrote it... :)

Grace and peace to you.
Your argument doesn't make contextual sense. If
Jesux emptied himself and was ''just a man'', then Satan, who you claim kne wasted his time and breath challenging that ''man'' to prove he was the son of God.

If Satan knew exactly who Jesus was, he would have known his own power over man and death was soon to come to an end.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross (Colossians 2:13-15)
 

Pierac

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Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

Your asking the wrong question? The real question is... Did Jesus/Yeshua have a free will???

Mat 6:10 'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.

Luk 22:42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."


Ohh, Sin nature... not so important now ???

Joh 7:17 "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.

Act 22:14 "And he said, 'The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth.

Rom 2:18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law,

Eph 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Heb 13:21 equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

So... Did Jesus/Yeshua have a free will?
Not really...

Luk 22:42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Paul
 
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PinSeeker

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Your argument doesn't make contextual sense. If Jesus emptied himself and was ''just a man'', then Satan, who you claim knew wasted his time and breath challenging that ''man'' to prove he was the son of God.
Well, it does; Jesus's emptying of Himself should not be understood as Jesus not being God during His time on earth. Satan was tempting Jesus; we agree on that. But on this point, we disagree. Hey, the demons possessing the man in Matthew 8 knew exactly Who Jesus was, so don't you think Satan did, too?

Grace and peace to you.
 

face2face

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I use "flesh" as Paul and Peter uses it - our nature. Sin is not in our body. Our body is just a puppet controlled by our nature - our mind and emotions: our spirit and soul. Those have been made immortal.
You were going well until those last 5 words.
Spirit has to do with character and soul speaks to the life of a person - an animal has a soul...a soul can die etc.

You seem to believe that Jesus was born with a sin nature, even though He was conceived with the seed of the Father, and that seed remained in Him. The key is the seed. Why is the seed so important to us? 1 John 3:9. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Jesus never sinned. He was tested in all things, but never sinned. Was it a struggle to not sin as you seem to think? No, and neither is it for the born again. He is our example. He is why it is important for us to be born again to be freed from sin. 1 John 3:5. Jesus was manifest to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin. Where did Jesus take away our sin from? Our body? No! Our nature. It is all about our nature. I repeat - 2 Peter 1:2-4. Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Read over your response and tell me why you avoided all the Scriptures that speak of Christ having our nature? You see there is no need for you to keep reminding us that Christ did no sin...we all agree on this point. The focus is on his nature because that is the place God condemned sin.
So you must look for Pauls teaching on the nature of Christ is you are to find this truth. So few Christians actually know what happened on the cross.

Why is Jesus likened to a serpent in John 3:14 - what relationship does the Serpent have to Christ?

If you say none! then its denial on your part because you are not willing to discover the true messiah!

@Taken and others like him have already made up their minds on who Christ is...they cannot be taught! They are likened to those believers in John 8 who couldn't hear Christs words - they too were deaf like snakes having no ears! You need to decide if you also want to be like them?

Sin was not IN Christ. He was sinless. God placed the sin of the world on Him so that when He died, the sin of the world would die also. You somehow believe it was His own sin. That is silly. And Romans 8:1-9 does not teach that. It is OUR sin that Jesus condemned in OUR flesh. That is why we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit when we have His sinless Spirit inside of us.

Those who have not received God's Spirit and are still struggling with sin, even though they believe everything written about Christ, need to be born again of HIS SPIRIT. It is all about motive. Those who just see Jesus as a ticket to heaven and just don't want to go to hell are NOT born again. They don't believe IN Jesus, and believe as much as any demon does. But those who love God and want to be scrubbed clean from sin to be like Jesus are the ones whom He fills with His Spirit.

The red text is incorrect...possibly you misinterpreting what I am saying.

If you agree with Romans 8:3 then you must agree that God condemn sin in Christ's flesh on the cross. If the wages of sin is death - Christ did not receive those wages but he still died! His nature was condemned!

But how so?

He was born of a woman Galatians 4:4
He was of the seed of David Romans 1:3
He was of the root of David Revelation 22:16 (last words from Christ in Heaven!!!)
He was of the seed of Adam and of Abraham Matthew 1

He represented the condemned line of mankind in his body and its in his body that sin (it's consequences i.e. death) was condemned.

2 Corinthians 13:4 For indeed Jesus was crucified by reason of weakness, but he lives because of God’s power. For we also are weak in him, but we will live together with him, because of God’s power toward you.

What precisely is the weakness Christ and you share?

The answer is found in Hebrews 2 (read it well and carefully!)

Only false Christians are unable to speak to this weakness - they are bogged down with truine doctrine.

F2F
 
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face2face

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That it does, throughout. If I had to describe what Scripture is about in one word, that would be an excellent word for it ~ redemption.


I'm... really not sure why you would ask such a question. I'm just going to let that one go.

Grace and peace to you.

You avoided dealing with Jesus obtaining eternal redemption?

Do you understand the consequences of denying Jesus this?

...you have no everlasting covenant!

How can a person be saved if they dont believe Christ was?

It would mean also that Hebrews 5:7 never happened and God was unable to save His Son from death for which he was condemned like you!

Can you see the ramifications for the Christian who believes Jesus is God and that the strong crying and tears was just a facade!

Was God able to save His son from Death?
Was God able to condemn the very death Jesus was condemned with?
Was Jesus through obedience to the Father able to reward him with eternal redemption?

These are questions only you can answer for yourself - i've opened many doors but so few enter.

F2F
 

Grailhunter

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So to answer the OP….

Yeshua did not have a sin nature and we do not have a sin nature….. because there is no such thing as a sin nature. This phrase is not in the Bible and like many of the false theological MANufactured words and phrases it is not biblical. Its only function is to condemn and be negative.


Not all MANufactured words and phrases are false. For example if I wanted to promote the phrase “Yeshua is King!” Although, it is not in the Bible and it is a correction to the English Bibles because they us the wrong name for Christ. This phrase or Christ is King, is well defined in the scriptures. So it is not wrong or a deception.

The phrase natural man is in the Bible and is more accurate and well represented in the Bible.

What was the purpose Christ’s crucifixion? Over 30,000 different Protestant denominations and many do not agree on the why of this. So, there is not going to be agreement here…..no surprise! Why? Because the Bible does not define or explain why…..very well. So what I offer is at least partially speculation, but we will start with scriptures.

Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself...Hebrews 9:26


so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him….Hebrew 9:28

“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 1st Peter 2:24

The key points of the scriptures are underlined…..

put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself

having been offered once to bear the sins of many

He himself bore our sins

so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness

He bore our sins….Some believe this is why Yeshua said this while He was on the cross…

“ELI, ELI, LEMA SABAKTANEI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?” Being that Yahweh, God the Father, could not be with Him or maybe could not bear to look at Him.


I believe that it has a connection to Baptism. John the Baptist performed baptisms for the remission (forgiveness) of sins….Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3

In the same respect Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission (forgiveness) of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4


Still people have different beliefs on this. I believe it means that through the blood of Yeshua and His sacrificial death on the cross we share in that. So is it a metaphysical death and spiritual death and resurrection that occurs during baptism? We go down in the water as a death and are resurrected as a spiritual person with no past and no sins. God has no memory of the old person or their sins. We come out of the water with a cloak of grace that God the Father sees as pure….so be the reason the veil was torn in two….nothing to separate us from God the Father and we can then have a relationship with Him that Paul describes as the family of God.

So then He has redeemed us from that system of sin and tally that separated us from God the Father. More than just take away our sins, Yeshua broke the slate that our sins were tallied on. From that point, when we come out of the water, our sins…. our transgressions are between us and Yeshua…He is the one that sees them and He is the one that forgives them. 1st John 1:9


It is all about the sacrifice…. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Hebrews 19:4 The sacrifices under Law could not forgive sin, those sacrifices could only appease God and forgo the wrath of God. Yeshua was the ultimate and pure sacrifice that would put an end to the Law for those that abide in Him and it but an end to the need for sacrifices. Now we are not under the 613 Laws of the Old Testament …the Old Covenant. We have a New Covenant with God. Hebrew 8:6-7 In this New Covenant we have better promises and Yeshua has taught us better morals…..In this Covenant we will not do things like sell our daughters as sex slaves. In this Covenant we have true forgiveness and Yeshua had opened the gates of Heaven so that we can abide with God.

Then there are those that believe that God the Father punished Yeshua. That is false.

And then there is the topic of Yeshua as a God and as a man. Can we comprehend it? I am not sure. Some word it as 100% God and 100% Man.

And even one God? No chance. We know that Yeshua said that the Father was greater than He. John 14:28 And we know that Yeshua said that His Father… Yahweh …was His God. John 20:17 Matthew 27:46 We know He did the will of the Father, not His own. John 5:30 John 6:38 Separate wills, separate minds.


I would word it as Yeshua was the true Son of God both spiritually and physically. He was conceived and born of a woman and nursed by her breasts. He grew up as a man….the body of a man and the Spirit of a God. Although they killed the man, but they could not kill the Spirit of a God.

So Yeshua had all the needs and desires of a man and so He could be tempted and was tempted, but He did not give in to sin. As Yahweh said in the Old Testament….”If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Genesis 4:7 In order for Yeshua to be the perfect and pure sacrifice He had to be tempted but resisted it and be without sin. The Son of God…a full-fledged God saved us.
 
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BeyondET

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Hmmm... Satan knew exactly Who Jesus was, Blue Dragonfly. And still does, and always will. He could tempt Jesus, because he was well aware that Jesus, though God, had emptied Himself and taken the form of man, just as Paul said in Philippians 2. Of course, Satan knew that long before Paul actually wrote it... :)

Grace and peace to you.
I think your right, I find it extremely unlikely that demons knew who He was but satan did not know that doesn't sound logical

Luke 4:41
Demons also came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But He rebuked the demons and would not allow them to speak, because they knew He was the Christ.
 
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face2face

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So to answer the OP….

Yeshua did not have a sin nature and we do not have a sin nature….. because there is no such thing as a sin nature. This phrase is not in the Bible and like many of the false theological MANufactured words and phrases it is not biblical. Its only function is to condemn and be negative.

The correct term as the Apostle Paul uses and understood is used in Romans 8:3

"sinful flesh"
"sinful nature"

Paul used this expression because he understood that sin has dominion over that nature and because that nature cannot be "fixed", it must be totally changed - God saw fit to crucify it!!...as we are told also to do - Galatians 5:24.

Christ had the same nature as we do - precisely the same no difference at all.

F2F
 

Grailhunter

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The correct term as the Apostle Paul uses and understood is used in Romans 8:3

"sinful flesh"
"sinful nature"

Translation wise...I would go with sinful flesh. What the flesh wants...natural desires...In that the natural man would do things that would be considered a sin from the Christian perspective. Without God, there is no reason for the natural man to be concerned about sin.

Paul used this expression because he understood that sin has dominion over that nature and because that nature cannot be "fixed", it must be totally changed

The flesh is not considering or taking into account sin....it don't care. That is the problem. God created the flesh and its tendencies. God never had any intention to fixing the flesh. I will go back to what God said in Genesis 4:7 “If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Yeshua and the Apostles educate us on sin and what is right. Our choice is to follow that instruction. But the desires of the flesh are still there. We must be master over it.

God saw fit to crucify it!!

Yahweh did not crucify anything. Yeshua chose to be the sacrificial Lamb of God...To redeem us from sin...But sin was not crucified or died....it still exists.

Christ had the same nature as we do - precisely the same no difference at all.

Same nature....same flesh....same temptations....with the discipline of a God.
 
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face2face

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Yahweh did not crucify anything. Yeshua chose to be the sacrificial Lamb of God...To redeem us from sin...But sin was not crucified or died....it still exists.
I've dealt with the first thing that appear wrong.
Rather than correct you openly I'll give you time to reconsider first.
F2F
 

BeyondET

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Jesus was born with the same affected flesh from the disobedience of Adam and Eve simple as that. The ability to recognize good and evil, every human has that ability from birth.

Isaiah 7:16
For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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If, 1stCenturyLady, when we are born again our sin is "taken away from our nature," as in totally removed (if I'm understanding you correctly), then why do we still sin? This is really a rhetorical question. I'm with you about the "old man," but Paul exhorts us to put off the old man and put on the new. So the old is still with us, but we are being made new. This is what we call the process of sanctification. We have been justified, and are being sanctified, and most assuredly will be glorified. God will bring His good work that He began in us to completion at the Day of Christ.

Jesus takes away all of our sin, including the sin nature; otherwise we couldn't partake of the divine nature. Your question is then why do Christians sin? They don't know their own responsibility, and for some reason have taken into themselves a very apathetic view of sin from very bad teachers who will receive a stricter judgment, James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. And 1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

The teaching that causes apathy towards sin is something you alluded to. The extreme of that teaching is "we will always sin until our dead body is resurrected." Friend, that is too late. And then there is your teaching of the process of sanctification being for the purpose of overcoming sin. No where does scripture say that, but that definition has been around for 5 hundred years at least. Time doesn't make it true. That isn't even what sanctification means. It means when we are cleansed of all unrighteousness and justified, we are also sanctified - set apart - for good works, not to still try to get the negative out of our life that Jesus already took away. But I understand some people's dilemma. They still sin, so either Jesus is lying, or there is a problem with us. Of course it is us. We must steadfastly grow in the fruit of the Spirit, and Peter even gives us steps to take for perfection.

2 Peter 1:5-7
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

Peter really scolds them in the following verses of 8-9 if they fail to do these steps, because the command to be holy and He is holy is the prerequisite to getting into heaven. The liberal denominations don't realize that importance. But Peter continues in 10-11 with these words. Please take them to heart:

Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Well, He was. He was born of a woman, just as we were. He was 100% man, even the Son of Man, as He said. But He was also 100% of God, the Son of God. This is how He is our Mediator. If He were less than 100% man and/or less than 100% God, He would not be qualified to be our Mediator, and therefore none of us would have any hope of being reconciled to God or of salvation itself.

Grace and peace to you.

No, Jesus was born with the same nature as we Christians have IF we have been born again of God. You still don't understand that all Mary did was give him a human nature, so he could die. Death was her contribution. But the SEED of the Father did two things.

1. Caused in us that 1 John 3:9 is true for all who are born again. (not all Christians are born again. Those who struggle with sin have not been born again.

2. Caused the human nature from Mary to be as Adam's was upon creation before he sinned and it became corrupt. This gave Him free will, and does the same for us. That free will is why we need to "keep ourselves" and to "purify ourselves."

PS, our becoming holy is nothing we have done; it is all Christ. He made us slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:6-7; Romans 6:15-16.