Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Deut 6:4 is the proof text destroying the trinity for it does not say God is 3in1.
Here's some data on John 10:33
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Deut 6:4 is the proof text destroying the trinity for it does not say God is 3in1.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL Jesus is not called the Son of the Father. Obviously, you are being intransigent. Only the Father is identified as being God in Scripture. Matthew 3:17 shows that God has the ability to speak all by his self and he doesn't require his son to express words. Rather, he put his words in a man he selected. He has set a day when he will judge the world's people with fairness. And he has chosen the man Jesus to do the judging for him. God has given proof of this to all of us by raising Jesus from death. Acts 17:31 CEV
And by the way, when I reference Matthew 3:17, dealing with who spoke after Jesus was baptized, that's the voice I mean. (That you want to change the reference point, again reveals your intransigency).
No. Anything 'of God' is divine, by definition. However, being 'of God' does not make one a god, does not make one a deity. Angels are said to be divine messengers but most know they are not god.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not God in any sense of the word, brother. Proof is that Jesus died and God is eternal.
Acts 17:31 and many other verse explicitly informs us that God - in his unitarian nature - raised Jesus from the dead. If Jesus were God, such a passage would not be written. It is amazing to consider that Rev 1:1 tells us that the resurrected Jesus, in heaven, after being given all authority in heaven and Earth is STILL not God for Rev 1:1 informs us that God - in his unitarian nature - gave Jesus the revelation.
Rev 1:1 is yet another example of the Bible's use of agency. God does things through Jesus, who in turn, does things through other agents, such as the Apostles and here, angels.
He has set a day when he will judge the world's people with fairness. And he has chosen the man Jesus to do the judging for him. God has given proof of this to all of us by raising Jesus from death.
Acts 17:31
This is what God showed to Jesus Christ, so that he could tell his servants what must happen soon. Christ then sent his angel with the message to his servant John. Rev 1:1
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Yeshua was / is the Son of God....a full fledged God that sits on the right hand of Yahweh.
List the miracles....no man could do the miracles that He did.
Tens of thousands of Jews were crucified, only one could redeem us from our sins.
Only a God could resurrect from the dead.
But still you cannot kill a God. His body died but Yeshua the God never died. Much to Satan chagrin.
But talking about a nature, what is a nature of a man that searches the scriptures to try to formulate a religion that believes Yeshua was not a God and hell does not exist. How will they explain that on Judgment Day....Just a man sending them to hell.
List the miracles....no man could do the miracles that He did.
Tens of thousands of Jews were crucified, only one could redeem us from our sins.
Only a God could resurrect from the dead.
But still you cannot kill a God. His body died but Yeshua the God never died. Much to Satan chagrin.
But talking about a nature, what is a nature of a man that searches the scriptures to try to formulate a religion that believes Yeshua was not a God and hell does not exist. How will they explain that on Judgment Day....Just a man sending them to hell.
Nobody wanted to stone Paul because he did not call himself God by saying I am and neither did Jesus.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Thinking that Yeshua was / is not a God is a error filled belief that stands against a good part of the New Testament. The Apostles made it clear that Yeshua was a God.....to the point that He was almost raised above Yahweh. And yes there is a hell.
And by the way, you would think if they were going start a religion that focused on Yahweh, they would at least know His name.
No such being called Jehovah.....no J's in the Bible.
So anyway you are on ignore now.
True Faith
Active Member
Well not one single person, wo believes either has ever been able to answer the question... well they have but they keep making God and Jesus out to be liars therefore they have not actually answered the question...
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
True Faith
Active Member
Hmmmm... so no answer to the question????... I mean if you held to the Bible as being the word of God then you go against it by not answering the questions...lol... not surprising actually...
It does not destroy the trinity. The members of the godhead share the same Divine nature.
"The second definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son."
What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son? | GotQuestions.org
"The single Greek word translated “only begotten” is monogenes. Ancient writers often used this adjective to describe a child’s unique relationship with their parent. Moreover, the emphasis was on the specific relationship, not the physical begetting itself. In fact, monogenes is better understood to describe a relationship as “one-of-a-kind” or “unique.” This is exactly how the biblical writers would have understood the word.
...,
Likewise, Jesus is God’s unique, one-of-a-kind Son. You can call him the “only begotten” Son if you like, but remember, this word isn’t about procreation. It’s about a unique relationship between the Father and Son."
What Does It Mean That Jesus Is God’s Only Begotten Son?
Nicene Creed are these words:
“And [we believe] in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father … .”
3. The Son of God, Begotten, Not Made | Bible.org
“And [we believe] in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father … .”
3. The Son of God, Begotten, Not Made | Bible.org
"Since monogenes means “unique one,” we should understand John 3:16 to mean that Jesus was not created. He was the unique Son of God the Father. Monogenes does not refer to birth, being conceived, or created. The message of Scripture is that Jesus has been God and will continue to be God eternally. Jesus is God. Yet within the trinity, God the Father declared the second person of the Trinity to be called the Son when He took on human flesh in order to become our Savior. "
3. The Son of God, Begotten, Not Made | Bible.org
3. The Son of God, Begotten, Not Made | Bible.org
"1 What does “only-begotten Son" mean? Most Christians will tell you that Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God, but if you ask them what that means they cannot tell you. John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” The Greek word for “only begotten” is monogenes and means “uniquely born” or “one-of-a-kind birth.” The conception and birth of Jesus was unique—nothing like it had ever happened before and will never happen again in the future. He was conceived in the womb of a virgin by the Holy Spirit and is the only one who has two natures—divine and human; all God and all man. “Only begotten” does not mean that Jesus did not exist until the Father begat Him, which is what cults believe. 1. Jesus existed in eternity past as “the Word.” Jesus always existed as God in eternity past. Micah 5:2 says His days are from eternity. John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word (this was His name before “Jesus”) and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God.” This shows Jesus pre-existed as God before He came to earth and became man. 2. When Jesus left heaven to put on human flesh “the Word” became “the Son.” Cults teach that a father is older than a son, so Jesus must have come into existence at a point in time. The Bible does not teach this. Jesus has always existed as God in eternity past, and the term “Son” refers to His humanity which began at His Incarnation. John 1:14 says, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” This happened 2,000 years ago when He entered a human body and was named Jesus. The Word became the Son when He came to earth. Dr. Walter Martin, author of The Kingdom of the Cults, writes: There is no such thing as “the eternal Son of God.” Before Jesus took upon Himself a human form, He already existed with the Father. Hebrews 1:5-6 says that when He brings the first-begotten into the world, He says, “I will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to Me.” This is a reference to the Incarnation. It is a change of relationship when the Word takes on flesh—the Word becomes the Son. The terms "Father" and "Son" describe the first two Persons of the Trinity, God and Jesus, after Christ came to earth. This proves that the terms “begotten” and “sonship” refer to His humanity and not His divinity. As God, He had no beginning, was not begotten, and was not a Son. As man, He was begotten in the flesh and became the Son. 2 In Acts 13:33, the apostle Paul quotes from Psalm 2:7 and applies the verse to the resurrection of Jesus when He was begotten from the dead. He says, “God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are My Son; today I have begotten You.’” Romans 1:4 tells us that He was declared to be the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead. Psalm 2:7 describes the King being exalted, and Acts 13:33 describes Jesus being exalted as King through His resurrection. Although Paul applies Psalm 2:7 to the resurrection of Christ from the dead, it does not change the doctrine of Christ's human sonship as being the only begotten of the Father. The resurrection of Jesus is not the cause of His sonship or the reason why He is called the Son of God, but it is a manifestation of it. Although Jesus was "declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:14), He was the Son of God before His resurrection from the dead: He was declared to be the Son of God by a voice from heaven at His baptism (Matt. 3:17) and on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:5). Peter confessed Him to be the Son of God (Matt. 16:16) and He was believed on by His disciples as such (John 1:49). Even demons confessed that He was the Son of God (Luke 4:41). Making Life Count Ministries P.O. Box 680174 Prattville, Alabama 36068 www.makinglifecount.net"
Only begotten Son — Does only begotten Son mean Jesus was created?
Only begotten Son — Does only begotten Son mean Jesus was created?
Why Does It Matter That Christ Was ‘Begotten, Not Made’?
Why Was Jesus Called the Only Begotten Son? by Don Stewart
Why Was Jesus Called the Only Begotten Son?
"all things were made by Him" (John 1:1-3).
Since the Son of God made all things, therefore the Son of God can not be a thing.
Why Was Jesus Called the Only Begotten Son? by Don Stewart
Why Was Jesus Called the Only Begotten Son?
"all things were made by Him" (John 1:1-3).
Since the Son of God made all things, therefore the Son of God can not be a thing.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 NIV
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
In Greek these two sentences in English are one sentence in Greek text. From the Watchtower's Kingdom Interlinear we learn that the word for Lord in both places is the same Geeek Word, Kurios. In the "day of the Lord" it translates Jehovah. To be honest which the JW translators are not, one must from the Greek translate "Jehovah Jesus".
Revelation 1:8
New International Version
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
It is clear that Jesus is the one who is to come at his second coming, not God the Father.
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
In Greek these two sentences in English are one sentence in Greek text. From the Watchtower's Kingdom Interlinear we learn that the word for Lord in both places is the same Geeek Word, Kurios. In the "day of the Lord" it translates Jehovah. To be honest which the JW translators are not, one must from the Greek translate "Jehovah Jesus".
Revelation 1:8
New International Version
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
It is clear that Jesus is the one who is to come at his second coming, not God the Father.
James 2:26 defines death as seperation of body and soul. We also know that He went to preach to the dead.
Eph 4
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
1 Peter 3:18-20
New International Version
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1 Peter 4:6
New International Version
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
off topic Isaiah 14
3 On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
5 The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
8 Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”
9 The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.
3 On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
5 The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
8 Even the junipers and the cedars of Lebanon
gloat over you and say,
“Now that you have been laid low,
no one comes to cut us down.”
9 The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.
That's my point. In John 8, Jesus claimed to be God. Paul did not.
Thus whoever tried to make the dumb argument was exposes for poor prooftexting.
Similar threads
