Christians are sinners, but not of the devil

[Always Believing]

I think if I still see myself as a sinner then all that Jesus accomplishes in my is moot.
I'm not perfect, but I am aware as a saint in the body of Christ.

That is what I am sharing here that there are Christian sinners and unsaved sinners of the devil that chase after him. The difference is that I am not a sinner that enjoys it anymore. Do you see yourself as a saint and not a sinner because of not liking to sin anymore like me or because you are not sinning anymore? Are you saying a Christian saint is not a Christian sinner because you are not sinning like me? I have no problem with that. I am not a Christian saint not sinning anymore, because I know I will sin. As a Christian saint are you not sinning or ought not be sinning or won't be sinning?

 

[friend of]

Are you sure? God did expect them to keep it.

It was kept to a point, albeit imperfectly. The OT was a schoolmaster to bring us to the revealed Christ.

Hebrews 10:4
Hebrews 10:11

 

[Always Believing]

I disagree that Paul was talking about his life after conversion.

This same Paul wrote "Shall we sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!"

No one here claimed to be above Paul. Humility is an honest assessment of yourself. If you are saved by Jesus and walk in the light, it's more humble to call yourself a saint for that is what you are.

We must all remember that we came from sin in our past. But if we are still sinners, we need to repent. Jesus came and that's not who we are anymore. That's the testimony of the saints.

You can call yourself a saint but is that what you are? Is a saint someone who is not sinning? That would be good because then there would be no being sorry for sinning, but only joy in the Lord.

We cannot repent of sinning because we already did it. We can only confess it to be forgiven of it. Repenting comes with believing Jesus is the Christ and we don't enjoy it anymore. Repenting is not stopping sinning but is stopping enjoying it and that is by grace. It's just the way it is now as a Christian. If someone says they are also not sinning then that is great for them and they are with all joy in the Lord. If we are enjoying sinning again it is because we are not in repentance because we are not believing Jesus is the Christ and saved by Him. If we keep believing Jesus is our Savior we will not enjoy sinning like before. When we are like we used to be and start enjoying it again we are returned to wallowing in the mud and enjoying it.

Believing in Jesus is not enjoying sinning. If we can say we believe in Jesus without shame then we cannot be enjoying sinning. I have never met anyone like I used to be that enjoys sinning and makes plans for it and says he believes Jesus is Christ and his Savior. I never did that because God was the farthest thing from my mind. It's not really about doing it or not, but about enjoying it or not.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I think if you read the kinks provided on this topic already you'll gain enlightenment in the subject of Saints, not sinners.
https://www.bereanpublishers.com/are-christians-sinners-or-saints/#_Toc499463060

That is what I am sharing here that there are Christian sinners and unsaved sinners of the devil that chase after him. The difference is that I am not a sinner that enjoys it anymore. Do you see yourself as a saint and not a sinner because of not liking to sin anymore like me or because you are not sinning anymore? Are you saying a Christian saint is not a Christian sinner because you are not sinning like me? I have no problem with that. I am not a Christian saint not sinning anymore, because I know I will sin. As a Christian saint are you not sinning or ought not be sinning or won't be sinning?

 

[Phoneman777]

Why would genuine Christians be "walking in iniquity"

A genuine Christian walks in obedience. When a Christian turns to walk in rebellion and persists and persists until he's no longer capable of repentance, he's no longer a genuine Christian. He's a genuine sinner who will have his part in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

A genuine Christian walks in obedience. When a Christian turns to walk in rebellion and persists and persists until he's no longer capable of repentance, he's no longer a genuine Christian. He's a genuine sinner who will have his part in the Lake of Fire.

I think such a scenario requires us to consider for such a thing to happen, that person would have to be taking God's holy spirit with them every step of the way.

Which is why I don't believe a genuine indwelt Christian would do that.
However, I also know a Christian can't lose their salvation. We are never beyond repentance.

Jesus said, no one can take us from his hand. And, of all the father gives him he shall lose none.

No born again indwelt Christian goes to the lake of fire.

 

[Phoneman777]

I think such a scenario requires us to consider for such a thing to happen, that person would have to be taking God's holy spirit with them every step of the way. Which is why I don't believe a genuine indwelt Christian would do that.

The more we persist, the farther we push Him away, according to Isaiah 59:1-2 KJV. The only remedy to this situation is repentance - turning with our whole heart back to God.

However, I also know a Christian can't lose their salvation.

The "many" in Matthew 24:12 KJV are former saints which allowed widespread iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end" and be "saved", in contrast to the saint in verse 13. I can prove this from just three Scriptures: 1 John 5:3 KJV; Romans 8:7 KJV; and Revelation 3:16 KJV.

We are never beyond repentance.

"For it is impossible...to renew them again unto repentance..."

Jesus said, no one can take us from his hand. And, of all the father gives him he shall lose none.

Yes, if we allow Him to keep us, we'll never be lost.

No born again indwelt Christian goes to the lake of fire.

If God remains indwelt, yes.

 

[friend of]

Yes, if we allow Him to keep us, we'll never be lost

Romans 8:37-39 states that there is nothing in all of creation that can separate us from God's agape love. That would include us ourselves.

To quote John MacArthur, "If we could lose our salvation, we would."

 

[Always Believing]

I think if you read the kinks provided on this topic already you'll gain enlightenment in the subject of Saints, not sinners.
https://www.bereanpublishers.com/are-christians-sinners-or-saints/#_Toc499463060

I prefer we answer for ourselves but I did try your link and it did not go through. To me the difference between a Christian sinner and saint is one is sinning and the other isn't and I wouldn't deny either. Sometimes we are sinners and sometimes saints and I only say I will be a sinner again before I die.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I prefer we answer for ourselves but I did try your link and it did not go through. To me the difference between a Christian sinner and saint is one is sinning and the other isn't and I wouldn't deny either. Sometimes we are sinners and sometimes saints and I only say I will be a sinner again before I die.

That's unfortunate about the Berean publishers link. The article appeared when I posted. Now not even the site itself will load.

https://www.bereanpublishers.com/

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The more we persist, the farther we push Him away, according to Isaiah 59:1-2 KJV. The only remedy to this situation is repentance - turning with our whole heart back to God.
The "many" in Matthew 24:12 KJV are former saints which allowed widespread iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end" and be "saved", in contrast to the saint in verse 13. I can prove this from just three Scriptures: 1 John 5:3 KJV; Romans 8:7 KJV; and Revelation 3:16 KJV.
"For it is impossible...to renew them again unto repentance..."
Yes, if we allow Him to keep us, we'll never be lost.
If God remains indwelt, yes.

I will never be persuaded by works salvation doctrine to turn from what God said, and Jesus died to seal and guarantee for eternity.

 

[Behold]

We are all Christians that believe Jesus is the Christ, and we are all sinners.

YOU dont seem to believe your New Testament.
The NT does not define the born again as a "sinner".
Its the LAW that defines a person as a sinner, who is "under the law".
The born again are "not under the law, but UNDER GRACE".

Grace defines the born again......not the law and not some religious person who has no understanding of what it means to exist 'IN Christ".

Being BORN AGAIN, is the definition of a person who is a Christian.
And the NT defines this BELIEVER as...

"ONE with God"
"In Christ'.
"New creation"
"Heir of God"
"Saint"
"Brethren"
"Body of Christ'
"Bride of Christ"
"join heir with Christ"
"temple of the Holy Spirit"

So, if you are born again, you are all of THAT, and none of that is a SINNER.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are no bible verses that say we will not sin.

Not true.

1 Peter 4:1-2 says,
“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.”

Galatians 5:24 says,
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”

2 Corinthians 7:1
“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

The Bible does say we should not sin and we ought to live like Jesus.

Why would God tell you to do something that is impossible to do?

I know I live in Him because I know I believe in Him and have His Spirit in me and believe I am saved by Him. I don't have the same spirit I used to or the same life. I no longer try to be saved by believing or claiming how I will live.

This is not true.

1 John 2:3-4 says,
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Not true.

1 Peter 4:1-2 says,
“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.”

Galatians 5:24 says,
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”

2 Corinthians 7:1
“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”



Why would God tell you to do something that is impossible to do?



This is not true.

1 John 2:3-4 says,
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

If you are RC you have to understand Protestants don't see themselves in the light your church places upon RC's.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you are RC you have to understand Protestants don't see themselves in the light your church places upon RC's.

At the bottom of each of my posts, I give a brief description of my statement of faith.

But just so that you may know, I am actually against the popular church model of today. Christians met in each other’s homes primarily. I believe we are living in the last days and it is extremely difficult to find dedicated followers of Jesus Christ (who don’t justify sin on some level). Most just like the idea of Jesus and Heaven, but they are not willing to deny themselves and pick up their cross and follow Jesus.

Anyways, I am not Catholic, and I am strongly against Catholicism and Orthodox churches. Just because I am teaching the Bible in what it says plainly in regards to salvation (in that we are saved by God's grace and Sanctification) does not mean I agree with that church (which I find to be in great error). They believe in the worship of statues, and praying to dead people (the saints) just to name a few of their major problems. Guilt by association is not always true. Catholics believe in the Trinity, that does not mean the teaching of the Trinity is false just because they believe in it. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut. But where Catholics and I disagree also is that they make it all about works and no grace involving our Initial Salvation. They believe one has to be water baptized first to be saved (Which is a work). The Church of Christ also believes they must be water baptized in order to be initially saved. I disagree with this strongly. I believe we are first saved by God’s grace without works just as Paul taught (Ephesians 2:8-9). But after being saved by God’s grace or the gospel: Paul says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). When I confront Christians today with 2 Thessalonians 2:13, they simply do not believe what it says at face value. My guess is that many Christians are not even aware of this verse let alone what it even means. It is teaching the same thing in Romans 8:13 (Which is yet another verse they don’t believe).

Side Note 1:

The Catholic and Orthodox churches also add man made traditions to the Bible (Which is wrong). Then again, Protestants do the same thing with their Protestant imaginary sayings like: “Believe on the finished work of the cross” and “I am a sinner (present tense) saved by grace.”

I believe in “the Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It” as my guide for all matters of the faith and doing the work of faith.


Side Note 2:

I quoted 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1. What do you make of these verses? How do they fit with your belief system? When I hear Protestant Belief Alone Salvationists speak, they actually are speaking against the plain meaning of these verses. Therein lies the problem that many in that camp are not addressing or facing. They either will ignore these verses or they will twist and change them to mean something other than what they plainly say.

 

[Johann]

you must do your best to resist the temptations to sin...

Uh, where is it written we must do our best...to resist....are you doing your best to avoid temptations to/not to sin?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Uh, where is it written we must do our best...to resist....are you doing your best to avoid temptations to/not to sin?

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” (Romans 6:12-13)

 

[Johann]

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” (Romans 6:12-13)

I know you and "Highlighter" are in one accord brother, but don't superimpose your belief on me, I am not a American Christian, but an African follower of the Derech.
What you are doing is trolling me just like the Perushim and Tzedukim.
I don't hishtachaveh the American way, but the African way.
You have left many of my questions unanswered.
This is where the rubber hits the road, where you are going to flare up, getting offended, since I don't "see" scripture the way you & Highlighter do, and probably can't wait to report me to the Admin.
There is the block button brother, you guys know it all, unteachable, having "arrived"...where, I don't know.
African history has been ignored, misrepresented, or underappreciated..
Get to know me, where I live, what I like, get to know South Africa, Durban, what our culture is and hopefully this "reporting" and "banning" of members who don't believe as you do will cease.
Well, now I feel better, offa my chest.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I know you and "Highlighter" are in one accord brother

Me and @Bible Highlighter are not in one accord. He believes that it is impossible for a born again believer to stop sinning.

don't superimpose your belief on me

I’m just showing you what the holy scriptures say.

I am not a American Christian, but an African follower of the Derech.

I fail to see how this matters.

The holy scriptures transcends all earthly races and cultures.

What you are doing is trolling me just like the Perushim and Tzedukim.

I’m not trolling you.

And I don’t know what “Perushim” and “Tzedukim” means.

probably can't wait to report me to the Admin.

I have never reported anyone to an Administrator on these discussion boards, never. I don’t believe in silencing opposition.

you guys know it all, unteachable, having "arrived"...

If you remain settled on the Holy Bible without allowing any traditions of men, any cultural beliefs, or any man made biases to leaven you, you CAN do what the scripture says:

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

But it seems that too many men have some kind of leaven in them because they fail to stay focused ONLY on what the scriptures teach.

African history has been ignored, misrepresented, or underappreciated..

I say ALL earthly traditions should be ignored and that we should only be focused on things from above, not things on the earth.

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” (Colossians 3:1-2)

Get to know me, where I live, what I like, get to know South Africa, Durban, what our culture is

No offense, but get to know Jesus Christ and his Apostles through the word of God and then we will be united spiritually.

“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Me and @Bible Highlighter are not in one accord. He believes that it is impossible for a born again believer to stop sinning.

Uh, no I don’t. I believe it is possible for a born again believer to stop sinning.
Where we disagree on (in a major way) is the Trinity.
Not sure if you believe Jesus is God or not.
Is He like a created demi-god in your view?
I also disagree with your use of worldly sin filled entertainment to get your point across, as well (like your posting of pics from Start Trek, Office Space, etcetera). We are not to love the world, and neither the things in the world. If we love the world, the love of the Father is not in us.