Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

[Blue Dragonfly's]

@Blue Dragonfly's it was your bringing attention to that I had left out “It is God who produces in you the desires and actions that please him.” That also lead to that about Elijah …also considering without Faith it is impossible to please God. So I’m not disagreeing with: it is God who produces in you the desires and actions that please Him. But even there “produces” is a work of God?

Effective
To be operative
To be at work
To put forth power

Galatians 2:8
1 Corinthians 12:11
Ephesians 1:19
1 Corinthians 12:6
Galatians 3:5
Philippians 2:13

The effective prayer of a righteous man can (to be strong, have power) accomplish (to be at work) much (many) …



I had to look up what “quandary” means. Dilemma?

Quite.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling in Philippians 2:12 means what it says.
I am sure it can have this meaning.
In the Greek: It appears it can mean to work to completion or the end your salvation with fear and trembling.
Either way, we are to work in our salvation in such a way that involves fear and trembling.
Many today don't think the word “fear” means “fear” and they think it means reverence or something silly. No. When we are talking about God: Fear means Fear. This is obvious because the word “trembling” is attached with the word “fear.” Somebody that simply has reverence for another does not tremble. That does not make any sense. We fear God because salvation is conditional. We fear God because sin can destroy our souls unless we confess and forsake those sins. Most today do not like that message from God's Word. Most today believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. Oh, sure. They may not think you can be an axe murderer and be saved, but other sins? Sure. They say they are sinners saved by grace and they wave their misinterpretation of 1 John 1:8 as if it was a banner flag to sin in this life. But I am skeptical of those who think they are for doing good and yet believe in OSAS and or Belief Alone Salvationism. I just don't think it is possible to do good if you believe in OSAS or Belief Alone Salvationism. Because one is not properly dealing with sin and or how salvation actually works. Salvation is conditional and not unconditional. If we confess our sins. If we walk in the light. Lots of ifs in the Bible. We have to be honest with ourselves in dealing with these kinds of things in Scripture. Things are not as we wish them to be in the Bible.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We fear God because salvation is conditional.

I’m trying to think of how I fear God. It is not because salvation is conditional. But the opposite because it is unconditional. For example when Stephen was stoned and those who stoned Stephen laid their coats at a young Sauls feet. Fear …because even though Saul thought he was doing good, Jesus Christ asked him “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?” I don’t fear God because His Grace and mercy is conditional, but the opposite because I don’t understand the depths of His mercy. Another example is the prodigal son who went away and wasted all he had and returned to the father…the other son which was told by the father “you have always been with me” pouted because he didn’t think the fathers mercy was fair or just. I grew up being told God is one-sided and his love is conditional…and I didn’t fear God at all. Instead I did what ever I wanted of the opinion “so what, IS there a Father who loves me or cares to see?” Wrong or right…it has been the last couple of years of “wow, He does care and does see” “Father?” … “Help!” it was not by His love being conditional that spoke “You have a Father” but by unconditional “Agape” Love …that awakened this is no play-act of pretending church but instead The “Agape” sees the heart …so lie all you want, pretend all you want, dishonor Him all you want …A Father who is patient, kind, long-suffering, He who endures the vessels of destruction…He who endures hardness of the heart … kick all you want, but you are only fooling yourself because, This Father can see right through the lies you tell yourself…He sees right to the heart…that is fear, at least in my opinion. That nothing is hidden from Him who is “Agape” unconditional. When Saul was asked “why do you persecute Me.” Saul asked “Lord, who are you?” Why did I spit or mock at Him …to me is was unbelief that He has anything to do with me. So I could rebel and never be ashamed before an absentee father…a hands-off father.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That nothing is hidden from Him who is “Agape” unconditional.

That nothing is hidden from Him who is “Agape”; unconditional

fear to me is when
The “Agape”; unconditional Love …
Looks upon our “conditional” Love
Who is it that is unconditional?
Who is it that is conditional?
“The Spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak”?

consider: while we were (yet) without strength; at the right time He sent His Son who became weak that we be made Strong.

“Conditional” loves misses “while we were (yet) weak” and “without strength”
Our conditional love forgets “yet weak” “yet without strength” and calls this conditional so “the conditions” boasted of as being God …can turn around an exclude “those (yet) weak” and “those (yet) without strength” … what is “Agape” Love? The word says: it: bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things…? Paul spoke on “endure all hardness as a good soldier of Christ” …Saul/Paul had experience (Imo) well aware his heart had also been hard, yet Christ endured the hardness while Saul was yet weak, yet without strength…where did this come from Paul going on and on about the strength of God…is God’s strength Conditional or unconditional? Strangely …Christ Jesus prayed three times for the cup to be removed …saying if this is the only way it will pass away …let your Will Father be done. Saul/Pau also prayed and pleaded three times for the thorn of the flesh to be removed. “My strength is made perfect In weakness”? In while we were (yet) without strength…what if our conditional love proves God’s unconditional, Agape, Love?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I’m trying to think of how I fear God. It is not because salvation is conditional. But the opposite because it is unconditional. For example when Stephen was stoned and those who stoned Stephen laid their coats at a young Sauls feet. Fear …because even though Saul thought he was doing good, Jesus Christ asked him “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?” I don’t fear God because His Grace and mercy is conditional, but the opposite because I don’t understand the depths of His mercy. Another example is the prodigal son who went away and wasted all he had and returned to the father…the other son which was told by the father “you have always been with me” pouted because he didn’t think the fathers mercy was fair or just. I grew up being told God is one-sided and his love is conditional…and I didn’t fear God at all. Instead I did what ever I wanted of the opinion “so what, IS there a Father who loves me or cares to see?” Wrong or right…it has been the last couple of years of “wow, He does care and does see” “Father?” … “Help!” it was not by His love being conditional that spoke “You have a Father” but by unconditional “Agape” Love …that awakened this is no play-act of pretending church but instead The “Agape” sees the heart …so lie all you want, pretend all you want, dishonor Him all you want …A Father who is patient, kind, long-suffering, He who endures the vessels of destruction…He who endures hardness of the heart … kick all you want, but you are only fooling yourself because, This Father can see right through the lies you tell yourself…He sees right to the heart…that is fear, at least in my opinion. That nothing is hidden from Him who is “Agape” unconditional. When Saul was asked “why do you persecute Me.” Saul asked “Lord, who are you?” Why did I spit or mock at Him …to me is was unbelief that He has anything to do with me. So I could rebel and never be ashamed before an absentee father…a hands-off father.

First problem you must face and that you will have to explain to the Lord someday face to face is how you are distorting the plain reading of the text in Philippians 2:12. It’s clear that trembling is tied to fear and trembling does not make any sense with reverence. So two times you have to distort this verse to make it fit your more comforting view of God (Changing both fear and how trembling naturally goes with that idea).

Second problem you face is that when Ananias and Sapphira had lied to the Holy Spirt and were killed instantly each, a great fear of God came upon all the church and those who heard about it. Now, put on your thinking cap here a moment. If Ananias and Sapphira were false and fake believers, then fear or reverence of God by the church would not really make any sense. The real emotion they would have felt if they were false believers is maybe sorrow that they did not do the right thing or a feeling of the sense of justice was done because God exposed them. If Ananias and Sapphira were saved and they were being rewarded early with God’s Kingdom for doing wrong, that would nullify God’s fair justice. It would also not make any sense if the church feared or had reverence if they were saved believers. Believers are not supposed to be afraid of death. For to live is Christ, and to die is gain. So the real emotion the church would have felt if they were saved is either sorrow that they will miss their friends, or rejoicing in that the are now in the arms of Jesus. In other words, the real scenario here is that Ananias and Sapphira were once saved and they lost their salvation because of their exceptional grievous sin and the church was in a great fear in the fact that something similar could happen to them if they were not careful to guard themselves against a similar sin. That is the most natural reading of the text here. But of course you make God out to be more wrongfully loving at the expense of his fair justice and truth of His Word. An example of excessive love that would be wrong would be Universalism. This is the false belief that says that even the wicked will eventually be saved. Everyone will be saved according to Universalists. They can say to you that our God is not as loving like their God. I will admit it would be nice if everyone was saved, but that’s just not the reality. The same is true with your distortion of making God out to be overly loving to the point of distorting His Word. Romans 3 warns about how there is no fear of God before their eyes. This is to unbelievers but today… it includes many in the church, too. They have no fear of God before their eyes.

Then again, it is unfortunate, and I don’t wish such a thing to happen to anyone, but I am not sure many of today will see this truth in God’s Word until they face the Lord Himself at the Judgment. I say this because God’s love needs to be balanced with our fearing Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. The fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. Why? Because if they don’t get their act together, they will perish because of their sins. For the wages of sin is death.

 

[Behold]

Work out your salvation ... It appears it can mean to work to completion

Jesus finished Salvation on the Cross.

Jesus Himself, is Salvation...so, do you think you can "work out" what Christ has Completed, and in fact.... Jesus IS Salvation.

Listen...
ON the Cross, before he died, Christ said..."IT is finished"... and the "IT" is REDEMPTION. = SALVATION
A short time later, He walked out of the Tomb, proving what He said is True.

You are again confused, Bible Highlighter, as you are trying to believe that what YOU DO....finishes your Salvation.
You are always ranting about your own self effort, and you'll do it again, as that is your salvation in your own head.
You are one of these..according to your posted Theology.
= "yes, i know that Jesus started my salvation, but now let me talk about MYSELF, and how i finish it by self effort".
However, you have nothing to do with Salvation. And you are again confusing DISCIPLESHIP with Salvation, as many new Christians don't understand that CHRIST and the CROSS is : SALVATiON..... and you dont "DO" that..
Salvation is not what you DO.
Itw what you RECEIVE...that is "the Gift of Salvation".

So, its odd, Bible Hightligher, that you have been studying the bible "since '93", you stated... and yet you have no idea that JESUS is Salvation and not something "you complete".

 

[VictoryinJesus]

First problem you must face and that you will have to explain to the Lord someday face to face is how you are distorting the plain reading of the text in Philippians 2:12. It’s clear that trembling is tied to fear and trembling does not make any sense with reverence. So two times you have to distort this verse to make it fit your more comforting view of God (Changing both fear and how trembling naturally goes with that idea).

Second problem you face is that when Ananias and Sapphira had lied to the Holy Spirt and were killed instantly each, a great fear of God came upon all the church and those who heard about it. Now, put on your thinking cap here a moment. If Ananias and Sapphira were false and fake believers, then fear or reverence of God by the church would not really make any sense. The real emotion they would have felt if they were false believers is maybe sorrow that they did not do the right thing or a feeling of the sense of justice was done because God exposed them. If Ananias and Sapphira were saved and they were being rewarded early with God’s Kingdom for doing wrong, that would nullify God’s fair justice. It would also not make any sense if the church feared or had reverence if they were saved believers. Believers are not supposed to be afraid of death. For to live is Christ, and to die is gain. So the real emotion the church would have felt if they were saved is either sorrow that they will miss their friends, or rejoicing in that the are now in the arms of Jesus. In other words, the real scenario here is that Ananias and Sapphira were once saved and they lost their salvation because of their exceptional grievous sin and the church was in a great fear in the fact that something similar could happen to them if they were not careful to guard themselves against a similar sin. That is the most natural reading of the text here. But of course you make God out to be more wrongfully loving at the expense of his fair justice and truth of His Word. An example of excessive love that would be wrong would be Universalism. This is the false belief that says that even the wicked will eventually be saved. Everyone will be saved according to Universalists. They can say to you that our God is not as loving like their God. I will admit it would be nice if everyone was saved, but that’s just not the reality. The same is true with your distortion of making God out to be overly loving to the point of distorting His Word. Romans 3 warns about how there is no fear of God before their eyes. This is to unbelievers but today… it includes many in the church, too. They have no fear of God before their eyes.

Then again, it is unfortunate, and I don’t wish such a thing to happen to anyone, but I am not sure many of today will see this truth in God’s Word until they face the Lord Himself at the Judgment. I say this because God’s love needs to be balanced with our fearing Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. The fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. Why? Because if they don’t get their act together, they will perish because of their sins. For the wages of sin is death.

do you love me?
I’m sorry I stopped reading a couple of paragraphs in. You don’t study with me…you are not even aware what goes on in my life from day to day …who are you to decide I’m twisting His words to fit my own narrative? I did read up to the part of I’ll have to stand face to face one day…see, to me fear is that we already stand in His presence…that was the point I was trying to make. As long as I was being told I’ll one day stand in His presence, today I can put off until tomorrow what is today. My conscience convicts today, why ignore it for your threats and taking pleasure in … just wait into you stand in His presence. If I’m not in His presence now…I’m going down because there is no way to walk this alone. And here we are squabbling over “salvation” …yet for salvation is for tomorrow, yet salvation is continual…wait until you stand in His presence, face to face …Unless I’ve misunderstood you are suggesting I have the wrath of God to face ahead of me for twisting of His words?

 

[Behold]

First problem you must face and that you will have to explain to the Lord someday face to face is how you are distorting the plain reading of the text in Philippians 2:12.

They wont have as much to answer for, later on, as you are going to have to deal with, Bible Highlighter.

 

[Behold]

you are suggesting I have the wrath of God to face ahead of me for twisting of His words?

Do yourself a favor.
Do not take him seriously.
He does not even understand the Grace of God, and teaches a "works based" self righteousness as His idea of Salvation, according to His posts.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

do you love me?
I’m sorry I stopped reading a couple of paragraphs in. You don’t study with me…you are not even aware what goes on in my life from day to day …who are you to decide I’m twisting His words to fit my own narrative? I did read up to the part of I’ll have to stand face to face one day…see, to me fear is that we already stand in His presence…that was the point I was trying to make. As long as I was being told I’ll one day stand in His presence, today I can put off until tomorrow what is today. My conscience convicts today, why ignore it for your threats and taking pleasure in … just wait into you stand in His presence. If I’m not in His presence now…I’m going down because there is no way to walk this alone. And here we are squabbling over “salvation” …yet for salvation is for tomorrow, yet salvation is continual…wait until you stand in His presence, face to face …Unless I’ve misunderstood you are suggesting I have the wrath of God to face ahead of me for twisting of His words?

Yes. I love you enough to tell you the truth.

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6).

 

[Behold]

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6).

And those who teach a works based salvation, are "enemies of the Cross". + Galatians 1:8

 

[Michiah-Imla]

And those who teach a works based salvation, are "enemies of the Cross". + Galatians 1:8

“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)

So who is the enemy of the cross and the word of God now?

 

[Behold]

“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)

So who is the enemy of the cross and the word of God now?

You are the Enemy ... same as last time we spoke.

Notice the verse says 'work our YOUR Salvation".
Why is it YOURS< if you are born again?
Its because God gave it to the born again "as The GIFT of Salvation".

See that GIFT?
Its COMPLETED, and GIVEN as a GIFT...>"the GIFT of Salvation".

How do you work out that GIFT? = Salvation.......... ?

Start here..
-
"work out your Salvation".

It does not say...."try not to lose it".
It does not say..... "work out your discipleship".

So, what does the verse mean?
How do you "work it out"?

First, understand.... that this verse is not teaching that you can lose your salvation, and you have to work it out to try to keep from losing it.
Its not that.
And you know that the verse does not say...>"work our your discipleship".
So, This means that you are to work out your Salvation....as that is what the verse says.... and so how do you do that?

1.) First, you have to understand that you HAVE IT.
You have it.. You have Salvation.
How do you know? = You are born again., as that is the ONLY PROOF that you have Salvation, and if you are not born again, you can't work out what you don't have., as you don't have it yet.
And you DON'T receive Salvation by being water baptized, as that just gets your body wet.
Salvation is not about getting wet....its about becoming a : "new Creation IN CHRIST">
And to be IN THERE........"IN"..."Christ",........ you have to be born again to get IN THERE..
See it?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Notice the verse says 'work our YOUR Salvation".
Why is it YOURS

So what happens if I decide NOT to work out my salvation with fear and trembling?

What then?

No consequences?

Is this scripture written just to make the Bible longer?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Work out YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling..........

The doctrines of God are found ONLY in his word, it is complete !
Doctrines of man, any found in denominal organizations are lies and false interpertations of man.

There is always truth mixed with lies and the recipe is damnation for all eternity.

Jesus said NOT TO FEAR those that coukd only kill the body, but rather FEAR HIM that can destroy both body & soul in the LOF.

Salvation is a free GIFT, freely given, freely received. No one took Jesus life, he lay it down on behalf of our sin debt. No one can take your salvation, but we can neglect so great a salvation that it serves no purpose in our entering heaven.

Few ppl these days have a FEAR......I mean are afraid of our powerful God. Others want to say it means only reverance but God says otherwise.........

If YOU read something in Gods word and the Spirit enlightens you to the TRUTH of it , this will behoove YOU to obey. If not you walk in disobedience ! The opposite of what you are told. Everything is on an induvidual basis,your salvation is your gift from God. He doesnt deal with ALL the same. I may can do something you consider sin but my love of makes it sin or not.

ANYTHING THAT STANDS BETWEEN GOD AND YOURSELF IS SIN. The heart is decietful, who can KNOW IT ?

ONLY GOD SEES ALL, HEARS ALL, AND KNOWS ALL !!!!!!

 

[farouk]

Work out YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling..........

The doctrines of God are found ONLY in his word, it is complete !
Doctrines of man, any found in denominal organizations are lies and false interpertations of man.

There is always truth mixed with lies and the recipe is damnation for all eternity.

Jesus said NOT TO FEAR those that coukd only kill the body, but rather FEAR HIM that can destroy both body & soul in the LOF.

Salvation is a free GIFT, freely given, freely received. No one took Jesus life, he lay it down on behalf of our sin debt. No one can take your salvation, but we can neglect so great a salvation that it serves no purpose in our entering heaven.

Few ppl these days have a FEAR......I mean are afraid of our powerful God. Others want to say it means only reverance but God says otherwise.........

If YOU read something in Gods word and the Spirit enlightens you to the TRUTH of it , this will behoove YOU to obey. If not you walk in disobedience ! The opposite of what you are told. Everything is on an induvidual basis,your salvation is your gift from God. He doesnt deal with ALL the same. I may can do something you consider sin but my love of makes it sin or not.

ANYTHING THAT STANDS BETWEEN GOD AND YOURSELF IS SIN. The heart is decietful, who can KNOW IT ?

ONLY GOD SEES ALL, HEARS ALL, AND KNOWS ALL !!!!!!

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d I love that passage in Philippians continues: "....for it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

 

[Behold]

So what happens if I decide NOT to work out my salvation with fear and trembling?

What happens to you?
You stay where you are.
Theologically "confused".

Also, Let me show you how i paraphrase that verse in my class for my students, as that KJV verse is TRUE, but, the understanding of those Bible words "FEAR", and then "TREMBLING" found in that verse.... are not correctly understood by most people, or most believers.

Think of it like this....(my paraphrase).. "work our YOUR Salvation, that God Gave to you as "the Gift of Salvation""....In AWE AND WONDER".
See that?

God would not want us to think of possessing His GIFT of Salvation ....as "to fear it".
No.

So, we are to think of this Grace of God, as SO AMAZING, SO WONDERFUL...... We are to look at it, and consider it, within a sense of AWE and WONDER.........never fear.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What happens to you?

You cannot answer the question because your position makes portions of the Bible void and turn its writings into mere busywork.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Jesus finished Salvation on the Cross.

Jesus Himself, is Salvation...so, do you think you can "work out" what Christ has Completed, and in fact.... Jesus IS Salvation.

Listen...
ON the Cross, before he died, Christ said..."IT is finished"... and the "IT" is REDEMPTION. = SALVATION
A short time later, He walked out of the Tomb, proving what He said is True.

You are again confused, Bible Highlighter, as you are trying to believe that what YOU DO....finishes your Salvation.
You are always ranting about your own self effort, and you'll do it again, as that is your salvation in your own head.
You are one of these..according to your posted Theology.
= "yes, i know that Jesus started my salvation, but now let me talk about MYSELF, and how i finish it by self effort".
However, you have nothing to do with Salvation. And you are again confusing DISCIPLESHIP with Salvation, as many new Christians don't understand that CHRIST and the CROSS is : SALVATiON..... and you dont "DO" that..
Salvation is not what you DO.
Itw what you RECEIVE...that is "the Gift of Salvation".

So, its odd, Bible Hightligher, that you have been studying the bible "since '93", you stated... and yet you have no idea that JESUS is Salvation and not something "you complete".

Yes Jesus said IT is finished.

He meant the PLAN OF SALVATION was complete to redeem mankind from the fallen state of sin.

He did NOT mean, ok Ive done all the work now sit back on MY laurels and gather dust !

He meant that man no longer has to live under the law but can live by grace without the yearly animal sacrifices for sin that ONLY PUT OFF SIN, IT DIDNT ESPONGE IT !.

Come let us reason together as in Isaiah means working together a plan that ensures our entrance into heaven by way of Jesus.

In your livelihood, you worked the plan of your boss as it was his business or company,right.
God is higher than man and his plan is INFALLIBLE,.........IF WE FOLLOW HIM AND THE PLAN !

 

[Behold]

You cannot answer the question because your position makes portions of the Bible void and turn its writings into mere busywork.

Here is the problem with you.
I can TEACH YOU, but i can not learn it for you.
Understand?

I dont mind trying to teach you, but you are not here to learn.
You are here to TROLL, and not just you.

Listen....My Thread already answered the Question, regarding HOW you work out your Salvation.
And your question is..>"what if if dont work it out".
Then you have not learned the REVELATION of what it means to become a "New Creation in Christ".
And that is this.... Hebrews 13:9
See that verse?
Its says to ground your heart in GRACE. In the understanding of God's Grace.
And that is My Thread....
That is how you work out your Salvation.
Its not by working your discipleship... Its by gaining revelation knowledge regarding what it means to exist as Born Again, AS = "The righteousness of God in Christ"..