What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

Do you read the Kainos Diatheke graphoi? The New Testament?

You may or may not have heard me say that, among other things, I’m a retired Christian minister. I’ve never met a Christian minister who doesn’t read the New Testament. Have you?

In the plainest way possible to answer your question: Yes. I read the New Testament.

Would you like to know with what frequency? Would you’d like to know which translation(s)? Which you like to know which language(s)? If it matters to you, please do.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Hebrews 4:

No fallacy charge can be made when you don’t make an argument or continue to make groundless assertions, I.e., not grounded in Scripture.

I asked for a Scripture verse that says what you claim. That you provide none tells the story.

Yes, it does tell your story doesn't it.
Page after page of scripture in the Bible. And you ignore it. Twist it.

We post it here, and you do the same.
Your story is the same. In every community where you post.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The Shema is my creed; the creed of Judaism. The Shema is not a trinitarian creed nor is it the New Covenant / Testament.

You recite the shema in the morning and at night.
You're a messianic Jew.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

You may or may not have heard me say that, among other things, I’m a retired Christian minister. I’ve never met a Christian minister who doesn’t read the New Testament. Have you?

In the plainest way possible to answer your question: Yes. I read the New Testament.

Would you like to know with what frequency? Would you’d like to know which translation(s)? Which you like to know which language(s)? If it matters to you, please do.

Pride.

 

[Matthias]

Echad is not synonymous with yachid, or can be used interchangeably, I know you are going to kick against the pricks here, so here....

Answering Judaism: Echad: What does the Singer say?

I don’t think of you as a prick. Yahweh is echad, not yachid. Any standard Hebrew Lexicon can be consulted to verify.

 

[Matthias]

You recite the shema in the morning and at night.
You're a messianic Jew.

I recite the Shema more frequently than that.

An example, which you might find amusing. I had to have an old dental filling replaced recently. While the dentist was doing his thing, I was doing mine - reciting the Shema silently. The dentist wasn’t aware of what I was doing.

Whenever I attend a trinitarian church, I recite the Shema silently.

I don’t self-identify as a Messianic Jew but, if for some reason the Board administrator and staff determined (incorrectly) that I’m not a Christian, I could in good conscience represent myself as a Messianic Jew.

There are two types (or branches) of Messianic Jews. One type is trinitarian; the other type is unitarian. The trinitarian Messianic Jews are greater in number than the unitarian Messianic Jews. I have colleagues, friends and acquaintances in both branches.

 

[Matthias]

Pride.

What about pride?

 

[Matthias]

The scriptures are more important to me than any creed.

The creed of Judaism (Deuteronomy 6:4), unlike the creeds of trinitarianism, is scripture. Scot McKnight (a trinitarian author) refers to it as “The Jesus Creed”.

Other than that, I’m in agreement with your statement.

 

[RLT63]

The creed of Judaism (Deuteronomy 6:4), unlike the creeds of trinitarianism, is scripture. Scot McKnight (a trinitarian author) refers to it as “The Jesus Creed”.

Other than that, I’m in agreement with your statement.

I met someone who was Jewish who converted to Christianity. He prepared a Sedar supper and explained the meaning behind everything, it was a great experience. He told me he knew many people who secretly believed that Jesus was the Messiah but said it would cost them too much to admit it openly.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Remember @Johann, in trinitarian philosophy, Jesus is not a human person.

In Christianity Jesus is not a human person. He's sinless man, and fully God.

The Jews thought Jesus was just a man.

They murdered him on the charge of blasphemy.

Then cursed themselves and their future generations should they have sinned,being wrong to seek the murder of the actual Messiah.
They were. And they are.

2 Peter 1:21
For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

The prophecy tells us Messiah shall be God.
Jeremiah 23

 

[Matthias]

In Christianity Jesus is not a human person. He's sinless man, and fully God.

The Jews thought Jesus was just a man.

They murdered him on the charge of blasphemy.

Then cursed themselves and their future generations should they have sinned,being wrong to seek the murder of the actual Messiah.
They were. And they are.

2 Peter 1:21
For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

The prophecy tells us Messiah shall be God.
Jeremiah 23

“In Christianity Jesus is not a human person.”

Trinitarianism certainly agrees with that sentiment, but does Joe Average Trinitarian?

Most commonly - and by a wide margin in my experience and in the experience of trinitarian scholars and clergy I’ve spoken with - the answer is no.

JAT is typically shocked, confused and unbelieving (sometimes to the point of expressing anger - and in extreme cases, threatening violence) when presented with it.

 

[Johann]

Would you like to know with what frequency? Would you’d like to know which translation(s)? Which you like to know which language(s)? If it matters to you, please do.

Please do Matthias, I'm all ears.

 

[Johann]

I met someone who was Jewish who converted to Christianity. He prepared a Sedar supper and explained the meaning behind everything, it was a great experience. He told me he knew many people who secretly believed that Jesus was the Messiah but said it would cost them too much to admit it openly.

I had a similar experience with Muslims, converting to Christ, showing them in the Quran that Jesus is God. Needless to say, many were excommunicated from their communities.

 

[Johann]

I don’t think of you as a prick.

Lol! Thanks for that reassurance brother, and I don't think of you as a prick either. You are well aware Jews can have intense debates, sometimes fists flying, yet they are brothers.

 

[Matthias]

Please do Matthias, I'm all ears.

Daily. Various and sundry. (NASB is my workhorse; for casual reading I like NABRE - a Roman Catholic translation. All.) English, Greek, Hebrew. (Though I claim fluency in none of the biblical languages and - with my Appalachian education - sometimes self-deprecatingly, English.)

And yourself?

 

[Johann]

You may or may not have heard me say that, among other things, I’m a retired Christian minister. I’ve never met a Christian minister who doesn’t read the New Testament. Have you?

Good to hear, and absolutely, me and the scriptures are echad.

 

[Johann]

And yourself?

Daily. Various and sundry. (NASB is my workhorse; for casual reading I like NABRE - a Roman Catholic translation. All.) English, Greek, Hebrew. (Though I claim fluency in none of the biblical languages and - with my Appalachian education - sometimes self-deprecatingly, English.)

And yourself?

I use the KJV as my primary bible, but have various translations on my e sword, like you, I love the Koine Greek and Hebrew, especially the Morphology of important words, believe it or not, I can read the Greek Bible, almost there with the Hebrew.
I love reading Jewish resources, not to hammer the Jewish brethren, but for me to learn, and have watched hundreds of debates from rabbis, Messianics, Muslims, Imam's online.
I am an Afrikaaner, hence my poor, uneducated speech.
There, longest "dialogue" from a Afrikaaner to an Messianic Jew.

 

[Lizbeth]

LANGUAGE USAGE. Do you realize how this parallels saying Lizbeth’s likeness is manifested in a drivers license?

The ID is not lizbeth, just a manifestation.

But it doesn't say God's likeness was manifested, it says GOD was manifested. Also have to take many other scriptures into account, of course. And the reason the scriptures are saying it "tactfully" is because it's a matter to be revealed to the heart, not the carnal mind in the fleshly realm of "knowledge".

 

[Nancy]

I must assume that nobody knows why Jesus should be God since nobody can answer the question as to why Jesus needs to be God.

God's standard is perfection. He is perfect in ALL His ways, a mere man is NOT. Therefore, there could have been no pure, blemish-ness sacrifice if Jesus were only a man or an angel. Only God could come down to us in the form of Jesus (God in flesh) as only He is perfect in all His ways. JMHO

 

[Jack]

What is a WatchTower?

"WatchTower" is an organization dedicated to rewriting our Christian Bible to change the meaning and lead people to the "everlasting fire" that Jesus warned us about.