The Pre-Trib Rapture

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Taken

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You Promote The False Teaching In Zionist Dual Covenant Theology, Two Peoples Of God

You can argue with God.

Rom 3:
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

1 Kings 6:
[13] And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake my people Israel.
 

Truth7t7

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I believe the GT began for the Jews when Rome destroyed the temple and led the survivor's captive in exile. Tribulation didnt stop there for them but continued abroad.

Similar to this...,

Deut 28
64 “And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known. 65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the Lord will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see.


Lk 21
20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know and understand that its desolation has come near.

21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside [the city] get out of it, and let not those who are out in the country come into it;

22 For those are days of vengeance [of rendering full justice or satisfaction], that all things that are written may be fulfilled.

23 Alas for those who are pregnant and for those who have babies which they are nursing in those days! For great misery and anguish and distress shall be upon the land and indignation and punishment and retribution upon this people.

24 They will fall by the mouth and the edge of the sword and will be led away as captives to and among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed).


25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,

26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor).

28 Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near.




32 Truly I tell you, this generation (those living at that definite period of time) will not perish and pass away until all has taken place.

33 The sky and the earth (the universe, the world) will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

34 But take heed to yourselves and be on your guard, lest your hearts be overburdened and depressed (weighed down) with the giddiness and headache and nausea of self-indulgence, drunkenness, and worldly worries and cares pertaining to [the business of] this life, and [lest] that day come upon you suddenly like a trap or a noose;

35 For it will come upon all who live upon the face of the entire earth.
Yes you believe the standard reformed preterist eschatology concerning Matthew 24:21 in 66-70AD fulfillment

You might also believe Daniels AOD Matthew 24:15 was also fulfilled in 66-70AD?

You might also believe Matthew 24:29-30 isn't a future literal, visible, second coming seen?
 

Truth7t7

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You can argue with God.

Rom 3:
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

1 Kings 6:
[13] And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake my people Israel.
Gods words clearly show (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yes the Kingdom of God has been taken from National Ethnic Israel, And Given To The Church, a "Holy Nation" as clearly seen below

Matthew 21:43KJV

3 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood,
an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
 

No Pre-TB

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I don’t defend Gods Teaching. I embrace it, share it, and no effect on me of others that reject Gods Teaching
Youre embracing falsehood and teaching lies.

I Trust am content with who Gives me scriptural understanding.
I Hope so. I hope it isnt Dr. Ice, Walvoord or Tim LaHaye

God gets angry.
Can you see God? See He is angry?
Can you see when God IS FED UP intensely ANGRY?
That is Gods WRATH, intense Anger.
No I cannot. Because when I see God, I see love, mercy, kindness, all forgiving.
Lol cute. Really, YOU think I laid down my LIFE for a “theory”...?
Yes, it is called the Pre-Trib theory. There is also a Pre-Wrath theory, a Post Trib theory and a Mid trib theory.

Uh...
where ya been...MEN have Persecuted Godly men FOR CENTURIES!
Exactly. And that is why when people like you that say tribulation is wrath have not read their Bibles or defined the words. Itching ears giving into fables of a house in the clouds and escapism. You were provided with sound logical definitions of each word. Your failure to look into those facts is your own pride which he will humble.

Taken, you have nothing to teach or to say. Reply back, I won't respond because you have nothing scriptural to lean on that is truthful. I understand you think its truth, or God's truth. But you fail to see past that dark foggy road and swear that you know better. Your mind is clouded by pride and until you learn it isnt about you and I, Pre-Tb or not Pre-TB, you won't see what you seek, what your eager to learn of prophetically.

But I'll leave you with this: When the rapture happens in the future and we all go up, I look forward to all the Pre-Tbers listening to him say “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things.” Then I can say, what things happen hearafter? Wasnt that John's past? =P
 

No Pre-TB

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@Taken
Tribulation is NOT Wrath.

Thlipsis:
2347 thlípsisproperly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

Examples: Matthew 24:9, Matthew 24:21, Matthew 24:29, Mark 4:17, all throughout Romans

Thlipsis is used 45 times in the NT Thlipsis is translated in the NAS as affliction (inflicting on a person something that is hard to bear), 14; afflictions, 6; anguish, 1; distress (the state of being in great trouble), 2; persecution (harassment in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict), 1; tribulation (distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution), 16; tribulations, 4; trouble, 1.

Christ said: In the world you have tribulation (thlipsis), but take courage; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)

But when we look at Thumos, God's wrath, we find a different word.

Accordingly, 2372 (thymós) is used of God's perfect, holy wrath in Revelation (Rev 14:10,19,15:1, etc.). This anger is directed against sin with intense opposition and without sin.

[Only the Lord exercises righteous wrath, so we must depend solely on Him as we experience (express) anger.]

Thumos is that outpoured wrath of God that Christ warned us of. It is that wrath he extends on his return in fiery judgment to remove out of His Kingdom all workers of iniquity. It is that casting into utter darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is they who are locked out of the door when he comes. It is those who cannot enter the temple till the 7 vials have been poured out.

Continuance to say tribulation is wrath is falsehood, lies and unscriptural especially when you are shown otherwise and continue to propagate it.
 

jeffweeder

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You might also believe Daniels AOD Matthew 24:15 was also fulfilled in 66-70AD?

According to Luke Jerusalem surrounded by armies led to the desolation of the temple. That happened.


Matt 24
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Same discourse



[ Truth7t7] You might also believe Matthew 24:29-30 isn't a future literal, visible, second coming seen?]

No, it is seen
 

Taken

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Gods words clearly show (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yes the Kingdom of God has been taken from National Ethnic Israel, And Given To The Church, a "Holy Nation" as clearly seen below

Matthew 21:43KJV

3 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood,
an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Wow...
Israel the nation will be take from them...Uh, that already happened.

Israel /Race of people that remain faithful, some not.
Gentiles /Race of people that are in the process of being included, some not.

Nothing new.

Pss 135:
[4] For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Christ is the promised Seed.
 

Taken

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Youre embracing falsehood and teaching lies.

Nothing new. Accuse, Accuse...yawn.

I Hope so. I hope it isnt Dr. Ice, Walvoord or Tim LaHaye

Scriptural topic and nothing new to add your foolishness.

Yes, it is called the Pre-Trib theory. There is also a Pre-Wrath theory, a Post Trib theory and a Mid trib theory.

Nothing new. Accusations, Accusations....yawn.

And that is why when people like you that say tribulation is wrath

Wrath is an emotion of INTENSE ANGER...
Tribulation is acts that Causes Great troubles or suffering.

If you don’t see the difference and connection...your problem.

But I'll leave you...

Thank you. No loss, I was never With you.
 

Truth7t7

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According to Luke Jerusalem surrounded by armies led to the desolation of the temple. That happened.


Matt 24
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Same discourse



[ Truth7t7] You might also believe Matthew 24:29-30 isn't a future literal, visible, second coming seen?]

No, it is seen
Thanks for the response Jeff

You have expressed Matthew 24:15 (Daniels AOD) & Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation) has been fulfilled in 66-70AD Jerusalem, you have stated that a future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ is seen in Matthew 24:30

Problem:

Immediately After The Tribulation In Matthew 24:21, Jesus Returns In The Clouds Of Heaven As Seen Below in Matthew 24:29-30

Please explain how there can be A 66-70AD Great Tribulation, And Jesus Literally Returning In The Clouds Immediately After It , when the second coming is future?

Jesus Is The Lord! :Amen:

Matthew 24:15-31KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

66-70AD Great Tribulation?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

A Literal Future Second Coming Immediately After A 66-70AD Tribulation?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
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Truth7t7

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Wow...
Israel the nation will be take from them...Uh, that already happened.

Israel /Race of people that remain faithful, some not.
Gentiles /Race of people that are in the process of being included, some not.

Nothing new.

Pss 135:
[4] For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Christ is the promised Seed.
Israel a race of people that remain faithful?

The temple in Jerusalem was abolished in the shed blood on Calvary "Gone"!

There is one people of God "The Church" comprised of both Jew and Gentile

Your teaching and belief in dual covenant theology in two peoples of God is "False" doctrine, it's that simple
 

jeffweeder

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Thanks for the response Jeff

You have expressed Matthew 24:15 (Daniels AOD) & Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation) has been fulfilled in 66-70AD Jerusalem, you have stated that a future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Chist is seen in Matthew 24:30

Yes to Matt 24:15
No to Matt 24:21,--- The GT started but did not conclude in 70 AD.

it starts off as wrath and vengeance toward the Jewish people and ends up going global.

Matt 24
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,

26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor).


28 Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near.
 
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Taken

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Israel a race of people that remain faithful?

The temple in Jerusalem was abolished in the shed blood on Calvary "Gone"!

There is one people of God "The Church" comprised of both Jew and Gentile.

You can continue to DENY Scripture and teach your own brand of religion, while having snarky remarks for those who don’t look to you for Gods Truth. Gaslighter.

1 Kings 6:
[13] And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake my people Israel.
 

Truth7t7

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Yes to Matt 24:15
No to Matt 24:21,--- The GT started but did not conclude in 70 AD.

it starts off as wrath and vengeance toward the Jewish people and ends up going global.

Matt 24
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,

26 Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor).


28 Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near.
Once again thanks for the response

Ok a different twist, you have a 2,000 year long great tribulation got it, appears to be the standard teaching in "Historicism"

Jeff I disagree, you now have the generation that witnesses the events lasting 2,000 years, your claim of a 2,000 year long tribulation fails, the generation won't pass till all is fulfilled

The generation that witnesses Daniel's AOD in Matthew 24:15 will also witness the literal second coming in Matthew 24:30

"Ye Shall See All These Things"

"This Generation Shall Not Pass"

The Second Coming: "Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors"


Matthew 24:33-34KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
 
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jeffweeder

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Once again thanks for the response

Ok a different twist, you have a 2,000 year long great tribulation got it, appears to be the standard teaching in "Historicism"

Jeff I disagree, you now have the generation that witnesses the events lasting 2,000 years, your claim of a 2,000 year long tribulation fails, the generation won't pass till all is fulfilled

The generation that witnesses Daniel's AOD in Matthew 24:15 will also witness the literal second coming in Matthew 24:30

"Ye Shall See All These Things"

"This Generation Shall Not Pass"

The Second Coming: "Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors"


Matthew 24:33-34KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

No probs Truth7t7.
I see generation as this unbelieving race, while I see all believers as,

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”—1 Peter 2:9
God bless Bro'
 
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Taken

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The Pre-Trib Rapture
OP^

@marks Thank you OP.

2 Pet 2:
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.


Gen 7:
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Ecc 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

1 Thes 4:
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thes 4:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Gods First Tribulation ...
Noah lift up above the Earth.
Noah in the clouds of the lower heavens.

Gods Second and Last Tribulation ...
In Christ caught up above the Earth.
In Christ in the clouds of the lower heavens.

Nothing new. What was shall be again.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

The Light

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Not so. I am in good company.

Matthew Henry says:

Then shall be great tribulation; then when the measure of iniquity is full; then when the servants of God are sealed and secured, then come the troubles; nothing can be done against Sodom till Lot is entered into Zoar, and then look for fire and brimstone immediately. There shall be great tribulation. Great, indeed, when within the city plague and famine raged, and (worse than either) faction and division, so that every man's sword was against his fellow; then and there it was that the hands of the pitiful women flayed their own children. Without the city was the Roman army ready to swallow them up, with a particular rage against them, not only as Jews, but as rebellious Jews. War was the only one of the three sore judgment s that David excepted against; but that was it by which the Jews were ruined; and there were famine and pestilence in extremity besides. Josephus's History of the Wars of the Jews, has in it more tragical passages than perhaps any history whatsoever.

(1.) It was a desolation unparalleled, such as was not since the beginning of the world, nor ever shall be. Many a city and kingdom has been made desolate, but never any with a desolation like this. Let not daring sinners think that God has done his worst, he can heat the furnace seven times and yet seven times hotter, and will, when he sees greater and still greater abominations. The Romans, when they destroyed Jerusalem, were degenerated from the honour and virtue of their ancestors, which had made even their victories easy to the vanquished. And the wilfulness and obstinacy of the Jews themselves contributed much to the increase of the tribulation. No wonder that the ruin of Jerusalem was an unparalleled ruin, when the sin of Jerusalem was an unparalleled sin-even their crucifying Christ. The nearer any people are to God in profession and privileges, the greater and heavier will his judgment s be upon them, if they abuse those privileges, and be false to that profession, Amos 3:2.

(2.) It was a desolation which, if it should continue long, would be intolerable, so that no flesh should be saved, v. 22. So triumphantly would death ride, in so many dismal shapes, and with such attendants, that there would be no escaping, but, first or last, all would be cut off. He that escaped one sword, would fall by another, Isaiah 24:17-18. The computation which Josephus makes of those that were slain in several places, amounts to above two millions. No flesh shall be saved; he doth not say, "No soul shall be saved," for the destruction of the flesh may be for the saving of the spirit in the day of the Lord Jesus; but temporal lives will be sacrificed so profusely, that one would think, if it last awhile, it would make a full end.

But here is one word of comfort in the midst of all this terror-that for the elects' sake these days shall be shortened, not made shorter than what God had determined (for that which is determined, shall be poured upon the desolate, Daniel 9:27), but shorter than what he might have decreed, if he had dealt with them according to their sins; shorter than what the enemy designed, who would have cut all off, if God who made use of them to serve his own purpose, had not set bounds to their wrath; shorter than one who judged by human probabilities would have imagined. Note,

[1.] In times of common calamity God manifests his favour to the elect remnant; his jewels, which he will then make up; his peculiar treasure, which he will secure when the lumber is abandoned to the spoiler.

[2.] The shortening of calamities is a kindness God often grants for the elects' sake. Instead of complaining that our afflictions last so long, if we consider our defects, we shall see reason to be thankful that they do not last always; when it is bad with us, it becomes us to say, "Blessed be God that it is no worse; blessed be God that it is not hell, endless and remediless misery." It was a lamenting church that said, It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed; and it is for the sake of the elect, lest their spirit should fail before them, if he should contend for ever, and lest they should be tempted to put forth, if not their heart, yet their hand, to iniquity.

And now comes in the repeated caution, which was opened before, to take heed of being ensnared by false Christs, and false prophets; (v. 23, etc.), who would promise them deliverance, as the lying prophets in Jeremiah's time (Jeremiah 14:13; 23:16-17; 27:16; 28:2), but would delude them. Times of great trouble are times of great temptation, and therefore we have need to double our guard then. If they shall say, Here is a Christ, or there is one, that shall deliver us from the Romans, do not heed them, it is all but talk; such a deliverance is not to be expected, and therefore not such a deliverer.

Adam Clarke says:

[For then shall be great tribulation] No history can furnish us with a parallel to the calamities and miseries of the Jews:-rapine, murder, famine, and pestilence within: fire and sword, and all the horrors of war, without. Our Lord wept at the foresight of these calamities; and it is almost impossible for any humane person to read the relation of them in Josephus without weeping also. Luke 21:22, calls these the days of vengeance, that all things which were written might be fulfilled.

1. These were the days in which all the calamities predicted by Moses, Joel, Daniel, and other prophets, as well as those predicted by our Saviour, met in one common center, and were fulfilled in the most terrible manner on that generation.

2. These were the days of vengeance in another sense, as if God's judgment s had certain periods and revolutions; for it is remarkable that the temple was burned by the Romans in the same month, and on the same day of the month, on which it had been burned by the Babylonians. See Josephus, War, b. 6 c. 4.

Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown says:

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Such language is not unusual in the Old Testament with reference to tremendous calamities. But it is matter of literal fact, that there was crowded into the period of the Jewish War an amount and complication of suffering perhaps unparalleled; as the narrative of Josephus, examined closely and arranged under different heads, would show.

Well, that good company should pay a little better attention to the details.

Matthew 24
9 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Did Jesus return immediately after the tribulation of those days.?

Come on Paul. Wake up and pay attention to the facts. If you think these things happened in 70 AD, you are denying the facts.
 

Truth7t7

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No probs Truth7t7.
I see generation as this unbelieving race, while I see all believers as,

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”—1 Peter 2:9
God bless Bro'
Matthew 24 is speaking to the believing church, and the generation is the "Eye Witnesses" of "All These Things" including Daniel's AOD, and the future second coming

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, And The Second Coming, They Are Future Events Unfulfilled

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord
 

The Light

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According to Luke Jerusalem surrounded by armies led to the desolation of the temple. That happened.


Matt 24
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Same discourse
Hi Jeff. You say that Matthew 24 and luke 21 are the same discourse? No. They are not the same discourse. What was the setting of Matthew 24 and what was the setting of Luke 21. Who was Jesus talking to in Matthew 24 and who was Jesus talking to in Luke 21.

Matthew 24:15 is a future event. Luke 21:20 occured in 70 AD.
 
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Truth7t7

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Hi Jeff. You say that Matthew 24 and luke 21 are the same discourse? No. They are not the same discourse. What was the setting of Matthew 24 and what was the setting of Luke 21. Who was Jesus talking to in Matthew 24 and who was Jesus talking to in Luke 21.

Matthew 24:15 is a future event. Luke 21:20 occured in 70 AD.
As Jeff stated and I agree, Matthew 24 & Luke 21 are parallel teachings of same events, from different perspectives, by two different Apostles

Example Below: Same Event

Matthew 24:15-16KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21:20-21KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
 
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