mailmandan
Well-Known Member
You remind me of a childish troll and your continued slander is ironic.The Son is not God then.
John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
The truth is cutting you.
Don’t resist it Dan.
Because the truth is doing this to you:
“When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.” (Acts 7:54)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
More irony from a childish troll. The sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts you troll. You can bow the knee to Jesus as God now or later after its too late.
Davy
Well-Known Member
John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto Him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father?'"
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
In Isaiah 9, Lord Jesus is called the Prince of Peace, and also The mighty God, and The everlasting Father (KJV). Phillip asked Him, "shew us the Father", and Lord Jesus told Phillip those who had seen Him had seen The Father. And in Hebrews, we are told that Lord Jesus is the "express image" of The Father (of "His person").
So really, there's all kinds of Biblical references to Lord Jesus Christ being part of the Godhead of three Persons as One God.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
You are mistaken sir--- Believe Jesus is the one sent by God, the Messiah, that is what it was saying. As well in the OT-100% proof Jesus is not YHWH= The LORD(YHWH) said to my Lord( Jesus)--Jesus never got-LORD all capitols in the OT. Actually YHWH belongs at every spot-GOD or LORD all capitols is, It was replaced with titles through wicked men by satans will. Its 100% fact that God put his name in all those spots because he wants it there. It was removed to mislead, so that when Jesus is called Lord they think it is he at LORD but it is not. Every trinity scholar on earth knows its fact. Thus all using the altered versions are being mislead into supporting satans will over Gods will, thus they cannot accomplish this-Matthew 7:21 and they will lose.
There are clear examples in both the Old and New Testaments, where Jesus Christ is YHWH.
In Genesis chapter 18, one of the "Men" Who visited Abraham and Sarah, is YHWH. In Genesis 19:24, we have the YHWH Who is still on earth, call on YHWH Who is in heaven.
In Isaiah 48:16, the Speaker in the context is YHWH, Who is SENT by Another, Who is also YHWH
In Zechariah chpater 2, verses 2-11, we again have the Speaker Who is YHWH, and He says that, Another, Who is also YHWH, had SENT Him.
In Malachi 3:1, the Speaker is YHWH, Who Speaks of His own Coming, which was to be preceeded by the coming of John the Baptist. In Matthew 11:10, and the other Gospels, Jesus changes the pronoun, so that He is is Speaker in Malachi 3:1, and it is His Coming.
Isaiah 40:3, also is on the Coming of YHWH, which is clear from the Gospels, like Matthew 3:3, is fulfilled in the Coming of Jesus Christ
In John 12:36-42, John quotes from Isaiah 6, which is about YHWH in His Glory, and says that This is Jesus Christ.
In Acts 2:21, and Romans 10:13, is from Joel 2:32, which is on YHWH, and again applied to Jesus Christ
In 1 Corinthians 10:9, according to the best textual evidence, Paul says that YHWH in Numbers 21:4-6, is Jesus Christ.
In Philippians 2:9-11, the words spoken of Jesus Christ, are in Isaiah 45:23, used for YHWH
In John 5:23, Jesus Christ says, not to "Honor" Him, in the same way as "Honor" is given to the Father, is not to "Honor" the Father.
In Revelation 5:13-14, BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are EQUALLY given, ALL, the Blessing, the Honor, the Glory, and the Might, and are EQUALLY Worshipped.
In Revelation 11:15, we have the Father and Jesus Christ as EQUAL Rulers, as we have in 22:1-3
There is so much more very clear teaching in both Testaments, that shows that the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, are EQUALLY YHWH.
Even the Jehovah's Witnesses, who deny that Jesus Christ is GOD, and so corrupt John 1:1, where they read, "and the Word was a god"; have in Isaiah 9:6, "Mighty God", for Jesus Christ. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/9/. In the next chapter in Isaiah, verses 20-21, YHWH is also called, "Mighty God", https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/10/. Their own Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is "Mighty God", and that there are TWO distinct Persons, Who are "Mighty God"!
Keiw
Well-Known Member
You are sadly mistaken. Twisting things make it look like you think, but reality does not. The elders fell down and worshipped God alone, not the one sitting by his side. The real Jesus=John 20:17, Rev 3:12--God does not have a God, God has a son.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The container is not what it contains. Therefore explaining why most translations recognize "godhead" is not the concept from the original text. So, logically speaking, Jesus cannot be God since the 'fullness of God' dwells in him. (Language Usage: This dwelling in is how we describe a Being who is not what is dwelling in him. It would be so much simpler to say Jesus is God IF that were the case. It is not the case and that is why the Apostolic writing differentiates the container from what it contains).
CSB
For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
CEB
All the fullness of deity lives in Christ’s body.
CJB
For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is.
CEV
God lives fully in Christ
DLNT
because in Him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.
ERV
I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth.
EHV
For all the fullness of God’s being dwells bodily in Christ.
ESV
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
ESVUK
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
EXB
·All of God lives fully in Christ [L For in him all the fullness of deity dwells] ·in a human body [bodily; embodied],
HCSB
For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
ICB
All of God lives fully in Christ (even when Christ was on earth).
ISV
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.
PHILLIPS
Yet it is in him that God gives a full and complete expression of himself (within the physical limits that he set himself in Christ). Moreover, your own completeness is only realised in him, who is the authority over all authorities, and the supreme power over all powers.
TLB
For in Christ there is all of God in a human body;
MSG
Watch out for people who try to dazzle you with big words and intellectual double-talk. They want to drag you off into endless arguments that never amount to anything. They spread their ideas through the empty traditions of human beings and the empty superstitions of spirit beings. But that’s not the way of Christ. Everything of God gets expressed in him, so you can see and hear him clearly. You don’t need a telescope, a microscope, or a horoscope to realize the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him. When you come to him, that fullness comes together for you, too. His power extends over everything.
MOUNCE
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells in bodily form,
NOG
All of God lives in Christ’s body,
NABRE
For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily,
NASB
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
NASB1995
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
NCB
For it is in him that the entire fullness of deity dwells in bodily form,
NCV
All of God lives fully in Christ (even when Christ was on earth),
NET
For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form,
NIRV
God’s whole nature is living in Christ in human form.
NIV
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
NIVUK
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
NLT
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
NRSVA
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
NRSVACE
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
NRSVCE
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
NRSVUE
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
NTE
In him, you see, all the full measure of divinity has taken up bodily residence.
OJB
Because in Moshiach kol melo Elohim (all the plentitude of G-d) finds its bodily maon laShechinah (dwelling place for the Shechinah).
RSV
For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,
RSVCE
For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,
TLV
For all the fullness of Deity lives bodily in Him,
VOICE
You see, all that is God, all His fullness, resides in His body.
WEB
For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily,
WE
Christ has everything that God has.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No one is claiming God has a God. Jesus said he has a God, who is the father to us all, proving Jesus is not God. Simple.
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In Hebrews 1:8, it is very clear, that God the Father addresses Jesus Christ, and says directly to Him, "Your Throne O God is for ever"
Even the Unitarian New Testament by George Noyes, reads here, : “but of the Son: ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever”.
Another Unitarian, the Greek scholar, Dr Winer, says of the Greek in this verse:
“The nominative (with the article) is sometimes used in an address, particularly in calling or commanding, thus taking the place of the vocative…H. i.8” (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.227)
This means, that it can only read, "Your Throne O God", and not as corrupted by some, "God is your Throne"
Even though both these scholars are Unitarians, who reject that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, they yet on this verse, are honest to say what it really means, and not force their theology!
These words in Hebrews 1, are taken from Psalm 45:6-7, which is a Prophecy of the Coming Messiah. In the Jewish Aramaic Targum on the Psalm, the words are used as a direct address to Jehovah, “The throne of Thy majesty, O Jehovah, abideth for ever and ever.” (Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges).
The Hebrew scholar, Aquila, who published a Greek Version of the Old Testament, in the middle of the 2nd century A.D., translates the Hebrew, by the Greek, “ο θρονος σου θεε”, which is undoubtedly the vocative, “Your throne, O God”. (Fredrick Field, Origen Hexapla, vol. II, pp. 162-163). It is clear, that as early as the 2nd century, the Hebrew was understood as the vocative, and not the nominative.
You are completely wrong in your supposing, that the elders in Revelation 5:13-14, only Worshipped the Father. This is your personal view and nothing to do with the context. In verse 13, "And ALL of the Creation, which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be ALL the blessing, and ALL the honour, and ALL the glory, and ALL the might, for ever and ever" (so emphasized in the Greek). ALL that is here ascribed to God the Father, is EQUALLY ascribed to Jesus Christ. Note the words, “τω καθημενω επι του θρονου και τω αρνιω”, “to Him Who sits on the throne AND to the Lamb”, where the Greek conjunction, “και”, is used for “sameness”, with absolute equality. IF, as you say, that Jesus Christ is not God, then there is no way that He could ever have been included WITH the Father, to receive ALL of what the Father does! The Bible is against what you believe.
Also, in Revelation 1:17, and 2:8, we read of Jesus Christ say of Himself, that He is, "the first and the last". Another Unitarian, Dr Joseph Thayer says of the words, " ὁ πρῶτος καί ὁ ἔσχατος, i.e. the eternal One" (Greek Lewxicon, page, 554). Which can ONLY mean that Jesus Christ is UNCREATED, and ETERNAL. Add to this the words of Jesus Christ in chapter 22, “I am THE Alpha and THE Omega, THE First and THE Last, THE Beginning and THE End”. In Isaiah 44:6, we read, “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am THE First and I am THE Last; besides me there is no god”. It is not only impossible for Jesus to have said these words about Himself, IF, as some teach, that He is no more than a mere “created” being, but, it would also be the highest form of blasphemy. However, we are confident from what we read in the Infallible Word of God, that there can be no doubt, that Jesus Christ, IS indeed ALMIGHTY GOD, without beginning or end, as are God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.
Colossians 2:9, says that Jesus Christ is absolutely Almighty God. The language is the strongest possible in human terms, that Jesus Christ is GOD, as the Father is GOD.
In verse 2 of this same chapter, Paul is also very clear:
“τοῦ μυστηρίου τοῦ θεοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐν ᾧ εἰσιν πάντες οἱ θησαυροὶ τῆς σοφίας καὶ τῆς γνωσέως ἀπόκρυφοι” (Colossians 2:2c-3)
“the Mystery of the God Christ in Whom is all the treasures of the wisdom and the knowledge hidden”
ALL of your arguments are AGAINST what the Bible very cleary Teaches!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. God does not say he also had a God even though that is how you want to interpret Middle English translation, to suit your dogma.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. Col 2:9 says nothing of the kind. You know you are deceptive when you resort to telling others what the verse says, as opposed to merely posting the verse. CJB For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is. Again, the container is not what it contains.
try refuting what I have said myself, with your OWN words, and not by posting links by those who are only interested in pushing their UNBIBLICAL nonsense!
here is the Greek text again, "ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς Θεότητος σωματικῶς"
Literally in English it reads, "for in Him continually abides all the completness of the Deity bodily"
Meaning is very simple, ALL that there is of GOD, is in Jesus Christ. Not 99%, or even 99.9%, but 100%!
This is exactly what Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:16, according to the Original reading, and not the corruption:
"θεος εφανερωθη εν σαρκι", "GOD became visible in flesh"
As I said before, which you completely ignored as usual, in Colossians 2:2, Paul is very clear, "τοῦ μυστηρίου τοῦ Θεοῦ Χριστοῦ", "The Mystery of God Christ", which again is what Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:16!
Argue all you like, but it is futile, when you are proved time and again to be WRONG from the Infallible Word of God!
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
It's crystal clear from Scripture that Jesus is God.
The KJV and other translations express the same meaning in Colossians 2:9.
Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (KJV)
Colossians 2:9 - For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (NKJV)
Colossians 2:9 - For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form. (NASB)
Colossians 2:9 - For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. (NIV)
Colossians 2:9 - For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is. (CJB)
Colossians 2:9 - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. (AMP)
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. He was in the beginning with God... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Jesus was fully man and fully God and you will NEVER convince me otherwise.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
No.
It’s not “crystal clear”.
Crystal clear would be a plain declaration “Jesus is God”, which appears no where in the Holy Bible.
The relationship between God and Christ is a mystery like Paul said:
“…the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ” (Colossians 2:2)
Furthermore the Holy Spirit isn’t even mentioned in this mystery.
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