Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

The point here is that the internal attitude which stems from sinful motives (anger and hatred) here carries the same kind of moral guilt as an act of murder.

That is not a Scripture verse or passage that explains what you said. In fact, your words here do not explain away the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etcetera.

We will be judged by the words of Jesus on the last day if we do not receive them (John 12:48).

John 12:48 (NKJV)

“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.​

Seeing you reject the words of Jesus (in the fact that you don’t believe Jesus’ words about how sin can destroy our souls in the after life), and if you continue to do so (and if you don’t repent of that)…. Those words by our Lord Jesus will indeed judge you on the last day (Whether you want that to happen or not). Sorry. I love you in Jesus, but that’s the cold hard fact or reality, my friend. No Christian should reject the words of Jesus.

Apart from faith in Christ and the blood of Christ, all sin places us in danger of hell fire. Was Jesus threatening believers here about losing their salvation or is that more eisegesis from you?

Jesus was not focused on addressing primarily unbelievers in Matthew 5, Matthew 6, and Matthew 7. His goal was to get people to believe and be believers.

For example: If Jesus was talking about unbelievers in Matthew 6:15, then it would be pointless because if they (being an unbeliever) would have forgiven everyone in the whole world and yet if they did not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior (being an unbeliever), then they are still doomed and on their way to hell. So Jesus is not talking to unbelievers in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etcetera. Jesus is talking to believers here.

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Your comments remind me of the words of Robert Murray M'Cheyne, with their evident background in the truth of Biblical justification:

"When I stand before the throne,
dressed in beauty not my own,
when I see thee as thou art,
love thee with unsinning heart,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe."

Never heard that one but it's good. My alias Pearl is because nothing I did made me shine - it was all God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Elsewhere, what did Jesus say about believers?

John 6:39 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:37-40 says,

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."​

First, what does Jesus mean by,

“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”​

Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.

Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,

"I WILL lose nothing."​

However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,

"I SHOULD lose nothing."​

John 6:39 (KJV) says,

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40

"MAY have everlasting life".​

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?

Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.

John 17:12 says:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."​

Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble. ​

And OSAS terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.​

Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?


Old Source Link Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/
(Note: Website no longer active)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Never heard that one but it's good. My alias Pearl is because nothing I did made me shine - it was all God.

So… then why did Jesus warn us about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15?
Even Paul says you can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel (unbeliever) if you do not provide for your own (1 Timothy 5:8). Not sure how many of you dance around these verses. In my view, it appears that you simply don’t believe these words in Scripture and you are just creating your own version of grace. But God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). God’s grace does not teach us that we have diplomatic immunity. Sin is the breaking of God’s commands (1 John 3:4). One of the first lies of the devil to Eve was that she was not going to die if she broke God’s commands. This same lie is being promoted today by the devil (even by Christians). They teach you can sin and still be saved on some level. So when I hear dumb things like what you said, this implies that one can sin and still be saved because you are placing salvation solely in God’s hands. Yet, Philippians 2:12 says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

Side Note:

By the way, although I know you are probably not Catholic, your avatar looks Catholic. In the avatar (picture): You have a woman who has on a necklace that looks similar to a rosary necklace and she and others are waiting to take the bread. While the Lord’s supper is something we Christians should partake of, the Catholics tend to promote this kind of imagery as the most important thing (which is a part of their dark alteration of the Lord’s supper). Anyways, while you are free to do as you wish, I personally would not want to mislead any to think I am even remotely Catholic (Seeing their extra unbiblical traditions are grievous sins in the eyes of God).

 

[Pearl]

So… then why did Jesus warn us about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15?
Even Paul says you can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel (unbeliever) if you do not provide for your own (1 Timothy 5:8). Not sure how many of you dance around these verses. In my view, it appears that you simply don’t believe these words in Scripture and you are just creating your own version of grace. But God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). God’s grace does not teach us that we have diplomatic immunity. Sin is the breaking of God’s commands (1 John 3:4). One of the first lies of the devil to Eve was that she was not going to die if she broke God’s commands. This same lie is being promoted today by the devil (even by Christians). They teach you can sin and still be saved on some level. So when I hear dumb things like what you said, this implies that one can sin and still be saved because you are placing salvation solely in God’s hands. Yet, Philippians 2:12 says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

Side Note:

By the way, although I know you are probably not Catholic, your avatar looks Catholic. You have a person who has what looks similar to a rosary necklace and they are waiting to take the bread. While the Lord’s supper is something we Christians should partake of, the Catholics tend to promote this kind of imagery as the most important thing. Anyways, while you are free to do as you wish, I personally would not want to mislead any to think I am even remotely Catholic (Seeing their extra unbiblical traditions are grievous sins in the eyes of God).

My avatar is of people in my church sharing the bread and wine. The three people are Vera from Tanzania, Ann and her son Stephen. We have no priest just a leader and each time we 'break bread' we do it in an informal manner with one of us praying first and starting off the passing of the bread to the other. It is a lovely way to do it. Much more meaningful than the traditional way of kneeling at the altar rails. The phot was taken by another church member and cropped by me to use as an avatar. We are a nondenominational church that began meeting in homes back in the 70s when people were fed up with religion. my friend is just wearing some pretty beads.

And quite what the rest of your post has to do with my quote about my alias I have no idea.

What I do believe is that our souls are already destroyed if we haven't come to Jesus. So they can't get any worse. It is God that makes us clean and without sin. If you haven't been washed in the blood you are still full of sin.

 

[farouk]

Never heard that one but it's good. My alias Pearl is because nothing I did made me shine - it was all God.

@Pearl What you say - consistent indeed with Ephesians chapters 1 and 2 - reminds me of these hymn verses:

"All of grace, yes, grace surpassing,
Such a portion to bestow,
But the love, all knowledge passing,
Grace has taught us now to know.

Love that bore the stripes and sorrow,
Love that suffered on the Tree,
Love that shares the bright tomorrow,
With the loved ones, you and me."

BTW, the full version of that hymn by Robert Murray M'Cheyne is:

"1 When this passing world is done,
when has sunk yon glaring sun,
when we stand with Christ on high
looking o'er life's history,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

2 When I hear the wicked call
on the rocks and hills to fall,
when I see them start and shrink
on the fiery deluge brink,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

3 When I stand before the throne,
dressed in beauty not my own,
when I see thee as thou art,
love thee with unsinning heart,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

4 When the praise of heav'n I hear,
loud as thunders to the ear,
loud as many waters' noise,
sweet as harp's melodious voice,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

5 Chosen not for good in me,
wakened up from wrath to flee,
hidden in the Savior's side,
by the Spirit sanctified,
teach me, Lord, on earth to show,
by my love, how much I owe."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Keep reading, and you will see this:

John 3:20-21

“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”​

In other words, if any person who does evil, they actually hate the light. But in the false teachings of Eternal Security or the Non-OSAS Free Will Baptist “Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief”, you don’t lose your endanger your salvation by sin (Even though that runs contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, and Matthew 6:15).

But in John 3:20, Jesus is saying that if you do evil, you hate the light. The light here is Jesus (John 8:12). In other words, a believer who sins actually hates the real Jesus unless their sinful deeds are reproved or corrected and they confess and forsake their sins.

Jesus also says,

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
(John 5:24).​

The “he that heareth my word” is in context to obeying His Word. So we have to obey Jesus, and believe on Him to have everlasting life and so that we can pass from death unto life.

This is made more clear by the words of Jesus in John 8:51, when He said,

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
(John 8:51).​

And when Jesus said,

“My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.” (Luke 8:21).​

Obviously being a spiritual family member of Jesus means you know Him.
Is that a big deal to know God?

Yes, it is. We need to know God or the Lord Jesus.

Why?

2 Thessalonians 1:8 says that God’s wrath comes upon those who do not know God.

“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,…”
(2 Thessalonians 1:8).
​

It’s as simple as that. Well, if you believe these verses above and you don’t speak against them. But I have a sneaky feeling you will try to do so because it does not align with what popular religious teachers you have decided to listen to instead.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My avatar is of people in my church sharing the bread and wine. The three people are Vera from Tanzania, Ann and her son Stephen. We have no priest just a leader and each time we 'break bread' we do it in an informal manner with one of us praying first and starting off the passing of the bread to the other. It is a lovely way to do it. Much more meaningful than the traditional way of kneeling at the altar rails. The phot was taken by another church member and cropped by me to use as an avatar. We are a nondenominational church that began meeting in homes back in the 70s when people were fed up with religion. my friend is just wearing some pretty beads.

And quite what the rest of your post has to do with my quote about my alias I have no idea.

It does not really matter if it was a picture at your church. Your church is not infallible and or above God’s Word and or the standard of all truth.
Again, I actually thought you were initially Catholic based on your avatar because it is hallmark tradition of Catholics do to that on forums (By having avatars of promoting the Catholic version of the Lord’s supper with them sometimes displaying rosary beads and stuff). It was only by your words later that I came to believe you were not Catholic. My point is if I can think the wrong thing by your avatar, then others can also think that way, as well. Why mislead people to think the wrong thing that’s not good? Should we not give people the right impression? That was the point I was making. If you don’t care about potentially misleading people, then most of what I say with the Word of God here with you will be completely foreign to you.

What I do believe is that our souls are already destroyed if we haven't come to Jesus. So they can't get any worse. It is God that makes us clean and without sin. If you haven't been washed in the blood you are still full of sin.

You can believe whatever you like, but if it is not written in God’s Word, then you have a big problem. Yes, we are to believe in the blood as a part of salvation (Romans 3:25), but there is also verses like 1 John 3:7, 1 John 1:7, and Hebrews 5:9.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Pearl What you say - consistent indeed with Ephesians chapters 1 and 2 - reminds me of these hymn verses:

"All of grace, yes, grace surpassing,
Such a portion to bestow,
But the love, all knowledge passing,
Grace has taught us now to know.

Love that bore the stripes and sorrow,
Love that suffered on the Tree,
Love that shares the bright tomorrow,
With the loved ones, you and me."

BTW, the full version of that hymn by Robert Murray M'Cheyne is:

"1 When this passing world is done,
when has sunk yon glaring sun,
when we stand with Christ on high
looking o'er life's history,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

2 When I hear the wicked call
on the rocks and hills to fall,
when I see them start and shrink
on the fiery deluge brink,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

3 When I stand before the throne,
dressed in beauty not my own,
when I see thee as thou art,
love thee with unsinning heart,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

4 When the praise of heav'n I hear,
loud as thunders to the ear,
loud as many waters' noise,
sweet as harp's melodious voice,
then, Lord, shall I fully know,
not till then, how much I owe.

5 Chosen not for good in me,
wakened up from wrath to flee,
hidden in the Savior's side,
by the Spirit sanctified,
teach me, Lord, on earth to show,
by my love, how much I owe."

And…. It’s not Scripture. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Faith does not come from listening to hymns or secular worldly sayings from popular teachers nowadays (that are contrary to Scripture).

Again, what do you do with the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My avatar is of people in my church sharing the bread and wine. The three people are Vera from Tanzania, Ann and her son Stephen. We have no priest just a leader and each time we 'break bread' we do it in an informal manner with one of us praying first and starting off the passing of the bread to the other. It is a lovely way to do it. Much more meaningful than the traditional way of kneeling at the altar rails. The phot was taken by another church member and cropped by me to use as an avatar. We are a nondenominational church that began meeting in homes back in the 70s when people were fed up with religion. my friend is just wearing some pretty beads.

And quite what the rest of your post has to do with my quote about my alias I have no idea.

What I do believe is that our souls are already destroyed if we haven't come to Jesus. So they can't get any worse. It is God that makes us clean and without sin. If you haven't been washed in the blood you are still full of sin.

Why did Jesus warn about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife?
I would like to stop and read Matthew 5:22, and Matthew 5:28-30, and Matthew 6:15 several times in prayer.
Ask yourself: Do you really believe these words by Jesus?
It should scare you to death that you don’t believe these words.
Jesus says in John 12:48 that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. No words from any hymns will save you if you reject the words of Jesus.

 

[Daydreamer]

My avatar is of people in my church sharing the bread and wine. The three people are Vera from Tanzania, Ann and her son Stephen. We have no priest just a leader and each time we 'break bread' we do it in an informal manner with one of us praying first and starting off the passing of the bread to the other. It is a lovely way to do it. Much more meaningful than the traditional way of kneeling at the altar rails. The phot was taken by another church member and cropped by me to use as an avatar. We are a nondenominational church that began meeting in homes back in the 70s when people were fed up with religion. my friend is just wearing some pretty beads.

And quite what the rest of your post has to do with my quote about my alias I have no idea.

What I do believe is that our souls are already destroyed if we haven't come to Jesus. So they can't get any worse. It is God that makes us clean and without sin. If you haven't been washed in the blood you are still full of sin.

I hope you don't mind me saying this. But bible highlighter clearly does not even try and practice what he preaches/demands of others. And I don't think its going to matter what anyone says to him, I don't believe he has any intention of changing. Im not even sure if its biblical to keep chatting to him(from my point of view) It just gives him oxygen to carry on as he does. Jesus did tell us to beware of the yeast of the pharisees, which is hypocrisy. They too endlessly quoted the random letter and demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves. Nothing has changed sadly in 2000 years

 

[Pearl]

My point is if I can think the wrong thing by your avatar, then others can also think that way, as well. Why mislead people to think the wrong thing that’s not good?

How can you mistake my avatar for something Catholic? It is not using wafers for a start, nobody is kneeling or wearing fancy dress and it is not being done by a priest. So it shouldn't be misleading to anybody. it is an image of Christian fellowship.

What about this one from the same day. Does that look Catholic?


And if there is anybody else out there that thinks my avatar is misleading then please say.

 

[Pearl]

I hope you don't mind me saying this. But bible highlighter clearly does not even try and practice what he preaches/demands of others. And I don't think its going to matter what anyone says to him, I don't believe he has any intention of changing. Im not even sure if its biblical to keep chatting to him(from my point of view) It just gives him oxygen to carry on as he does. Jesus did tell us to beware of the yeast of the pharisees, which is hypocrisy. They too endlessly quoted the random letter and demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves. Nothing has changed sadly in 2000 years

I totally agree and the words pearls and swine come to mind.

 

[Pearl]

Why did Jesus warn about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife?
I would like to stop and read Matthew 5:22, and Matthew 5:28-30, and Matthew 6:15 several times in prayer.
Ask yourself: Do you really believe these words by Jesus?
It should scare you to death that you don’t believe these words.
Jesus says in John 12:48 that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. No words from any hymns will save you if you reject the words of Jesus.

They don't scare me because I am washed in the Blood of the Lamb and am clean. Perhaps you yourself could do with a clean up too because you really don't seem to understand

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Instead of answering your loaded questions, why don't you show me from the Bible where it specifically says that King David, Solomon and Peter or anyone else "lost their salvation." I'm yet to find those specific words in the Bible. I also can't find the words, UN-saved, UN-regenerated, Un-sealed by the Holy Spirit etc..

CONTINUED...

King David was saved before he committed his sins of adultery and murder. But when he sinned, he lost his salvation and needed to have forgiveness of God to be restored back to the LORD.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They don't scare me because I am washed in the Blood of the Lamb and am clean. Perhaps you yourself could do with a clean up too because you really don't seem to understand

To be continually washed in the blood you have to also walk in the light as He is in the light.
This is in 1 John 1:7, and it’s conditional because it has the IF word in there.

 

[Daydreamer]

Jesus said, the people who were guilty of hypocrisy, by demanding of others what they did not demand of themself(using the random letter of the then scriptures to do it) were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside. I tend to think the two go hand in hand

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They don't scare me because I am washed in the Blood of the Lamb and am clean. Perhaps you yourself could do with a clean up too because you really don't seem to understand

But if that is so… then why would Jesus give us these kinds of scare tactics? Jesus was talking to believers here and not unbelievers. For example: In Matthew 6:15 it says you if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. An unbeliever can forgive everyone in the entire world, but if don’t believe and accept Jesus as their Savior, they will go to hell. So Jesus is talking to us believers today. His words still apply because of John 12:48.

In fact, Paul taught a similar thing. Paul says be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God; And Paul lists various sins (See: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11). Paul says if you don’t provide for your own, you are worse than infidel (unbeliever) and you have denied the faith (1 Timothy 5:8). Obviously the blood is not going to save you if Paul is saying you can be worse than an unbeliever and deny the faith by not providing for your own. So it appears you are just believing in a fantasy and not what the Bible actually says.

 

[Pearl]

To be continually washed in the blood you have to also walk in the light as He is in the light.
This is in 1 John 1:7, and it’s conditional because it has the IF word in there.

I am accepted by God because I am clean and free from sin. But as Jesus told Peter in John 12:10 Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am accepted by God because I am clean and free from sin. But as Jesus told Peter in John 12:10 Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

You cannot ignore other verses at the expense of other ones. What do you make of 1 John 1:7? It also talks about being cleansed by the blood, too.