Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

[Ronald Nolette]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Already you have failed the test of faith like many here. Because you don’t like what the Bible says at this point in the fact that it contradicts your theology, you seek to change what it says plainly. The Bible should not be changed to fit what we want it to say. To change the Bible to fit what we want to believe is simply cheating and it’s not being honest with what God’s Word says.

Mailmandan has also attempted to alter the Bible when it did not fit his theology within this thread. Dan said that Hebrews 11:17 is saying “Out of faith” instead of “By faith”. No actual dictionary has this kind of definition and no other translation says this. He only is seeking to change the Bible to suit his own theology and that is wrong.

The Bible should correct us and we should not correct the Bible.

YOu say that because you bounce from English tranlsation to paraphrases and forget the NT was written in Greek! And since the Greekhas three cases for the conditional "if" it behooves one to do some study and look it up! and my faith came by hearing teh Word of God!

so pack your subtle I am not saved ad-hominem in the garbage where it belongs!

As for mailman- He is correct. In the greek there is no "by" in the construct. But the construct of the word faith (pistes) calls for a preposition, it can be "by", "through", and while out of is techinically and grammatically incorrect- it is an acceptable paraphrase when understands that Abraham acted "out of" faith.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think we need to read all of the context in Colossians to see what is going on (Instead of just reading this portion of Scripture out of context).

Well then , I wiull await your case of why I am ripping this verse out of context.

 

[Pearl]

I would like to know what @Bible Highlighter considers are the "hundreds of New Testament commands". Does anybody know?

 

[Daydreamer]

I would like to know what @Bible Highlighter considers are the "hundreds of New Testament commands". Does anybody know?

I don't think he knows himself, he told me he has studied, or is studying to discover what they are. He's revised the figure down from the 1050 he used to believe it was

 

[Pearl]

I don't think he knows himself, he told me he has, or is studying to discover what they are. He's revised the figure down from the 1050 he used to believe it was

I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. Jesus didn't make demands.

 

[Daydreamer]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. Jesus didn't make demands.

He doesn't try and obey them all himself, he just tells everyone else they should

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would like to know what @Bible Highlighter considers are the "hundreds of New Testament commands". Does anybody know?

I am not sure why you would ask such a thing seeing you can simply Google it. It's not like we are living in the 80's or something.
Besides, anyone who has been studying the Bible for any length of time knows there are many New Testament commands.

Jesus didn't make demands.

Sure He did.

1. “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment.” (Mark 12:29-30 gives us the full complete description of the 1st commandment in the Bible).
   
   
2. “And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:31).
   
   
3. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23).
   
   
4. Jesus told people to: “Repent” (Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says, “God… now commands all men everywhere to repent”).
   
   
5. A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another (John 13:34-35).
   
   
6. “Watch” (“For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes,...” - See: Mark 13:33-37).
   
   
7. “Honor your father and mother” (God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother - Matthew 15:4, Matthew 19:19, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20) (Ephesians 6:2-3 says “Honour your father and mother (which is the first commandment attached with a promise).

I did at one time promote the 1050 New Testament commands. I later discovered these commands come from Finnis Jennings Dake (of whom I do not agree with on Theology; Especially his wrong view on God).

Anyways, here is Finnis's 1050 New Testament Commands list.

https://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201407/r1308729_17984331.pdf

After I have done my own personal deep study on God's commands in the New Testament over the past several years, I have come to discover that Finnis Jennings Dake's list of NT commands is not exactly what is in line with what Scripture says plainly. He misses certain commands, and he groups the commands together in an unnatural way and not in the order of how they actually appear naturally. So far I have found 400 explicit or direct commands in the New Testament (including additional unlikely situational commands), and I am constantly double checking and revising this list in careful prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

In fact, based on the ignorant statements made in this thread, I am planning to create a website and provide my NT Commands there. Then everyone here can check out my list of 400 New Testament commands for themselves (Lord willing). Note: This may not happen right away seeing I have a lot of upcoming things I have to do. But I will strive to make it happen (if it is God's will).

In fact, there are other NT Commands lists floating around on the internet, but again.... I found them to be inaccurate or not true to what the text says; Hence, why I created my own list. Right now I am double checking my work. Then if everything checks out, I will seek to create a website and post them there.

 

[Pearl]

Thank you for clarifying @Bible Highlighter.

 

[Daydreamer]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. Jesus didn't make demands.

Can I ask you something, as you seem a reasonable person to approach on the matter. According to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands, applicable law as we may put it, is written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers(Heb10:15-17)
I would think believers must know in their mind what has placed there. Of course, commandments can be expanded on as Christ did in the beatitudes for example. But Paul tells us it is no longer a law written in ink, but one written on tablets of human hearts by the Spirit(2Cor3:3). Yet I find an awful lot of people on websites such as these, who are keen to emphasise the letter of commandments. They look to the law written in ink and emphasise it. Whereas to me, the law is within the believer. Simply meaning, in their mind a believer knows how God wants them to live, and in their heart they want to live that way. Of course they can err, and go against what is in their heart/follow the flesh, but when they do, they must be miserable and have a seered conscience, for they are going against how in their mind they know they should live, and in their heart want to live. Would a bornagain believer really need to read what is written in ink to know God doesn't want them to covet, commit adultery, murder, take the Lords name in vain? I just wondered your thoughts on the need to constantly look to the letter of scripture to know the nuts and bolts as it were of how God wants you to live according to His commands

 

[Pearl]

Can I ask you something, as you seem a reasonable person to approach on the matter. According to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands, applicable law as we may put it, is written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers(Heb10:15-17)
I would think believers must know in their mind what has placed there. Of course, commandments can be expanded on as Christ did in the beatitudes for example. But Paul tells us it is no longer a law written in ink, but one written on tablets of human hearts by the Spirit(2Cor3:3). Yet I find an awful lot of people on websites such as these, who are keen to emphasise the letter of commandments. They look to the law written in ink and emphasise it. Whereas to me, the law is within the believer. Simply meaning, in their mind a believer knows how God wants them to live, and in their heart they want to live that way. Of course they can err, and go against what is in their heart/follow the flesh, but when they do, they must be miserable and have a seered conscience, for they are going against how in their mind they know they should live, and in their heart want to live. Would a bornagain believer really need to read what is written in ink to know God doesn't want them to covet, commit adultery, murder, take the Lords name in vain? I just wondered your thoughts on the need to constantly look to the letter of scripture to know the nuts and bolts as it were of how God wants you to live according to His commands

Hi @Daydreamer
When we turn to Christ we cannot do it without the leading of the Holy Spirit who reveals Jesus to us and in turn as we get to know Jesus better He reveals the Father to us. Those of us who are truly born again have that Spirit within us always. We follow the Holy Spirit who gives life to what is written. Without him it is just as you say ink on paper.

As you have discovered there are a lot of people on this site who are legalistic, many of whom belong to what I would describe as cults rather than to the Church/Body of Christ. These people do not have the indwelling of the Spirit so can’t possibly see the truth that those who are born again do.

When I first came to online forums I felt my knowledge was inadequate but now I realise that I don’t need to know all that other ‘stuff’ but just Jesus and him crucified:

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

The written words do matter but only to the extent that the truth of them is revealed by the Spirit in our hearts. Then they become real and not just legalistic.

I frequently make use of the ignore option.

PS I notice you are a fellow Brit. I live in the Manchester area.

 

[Daydreamer]

Hi @Daydreamer
When we turn to Christ we cannot do it without the leading of the Holy Spirit who reveals Jesus to us and in turn as we get to know Jesus better He reveals the Father to us. Those of us who are truly born again have that Spirit within us always. We follow the Holy Spirit who gives life to what is written. Without him it is just as you say ink on paper.

As you have discovered there are a lot of people on this site who are legalistic, many of whom belong to what I would describe as cults rather than to the Church/Body of Christ. These people do not have the indwelling of the Spirit so can’t possibly see the truth that those who are born again do.

When I first came to online forums I felt my knowledge was inadequate but now I realise that I don’t need to know all that other ‘stuff’ but just Jesus and him crucified:

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

The written words do matter but only to the extent that the truth of them is revealed by the Spirit in our hearts. Then they become real and not just legalistic.

I frequently make use of the ignore option.

PS I notice you are a fellow Brit. I live in the Manchester area.

Thanks for your response. I hope you didn't think I meant none of the letter matters, I was solely referring to commandments that give you the nuts and bolts of how God wants you to live as it were. I wouldn't need anyone to stress to me I should not covet, take the Lords name in vain, steal lie about others. That is within me. Yes there is much legalism on the internet. And I agree, so much that is discussed on here won't help anyone in their walk, you don't need to know it. I grew up in Slough, then lived in Blackpool for a few years, not that far from you, now I am in Worcester which I love. BTW, I have also started to use the ignore button

 

[mailmandan]

As you have discovered there are a lot of people on this site who are legalistic, many of whom belong to what I would describe as cults rather than to the Church/Body of Christ. These people do not have the indwelling of the Spirit so can’t possibly see the truth that those who are born again do.

Sadly, this is very true. I've been a member of multiple Christian forum sites for over 10 years now and running into legalists is not uncommon. Many of these people are 'spiritual narcissists' and instead of promoting Christ, such people exploit Christ in order to promote themselves.

 

[Daydreamer]

Sadly, this is very true. I've been a member of multiple Christian forum sites for over 10 years now and running into legalists is not uncommon. Many of these people are 'spiritual narcissists' and instead of promoting Christ, such people exploit Christ in order to promote themselves.

Very well put

 

[mailmandan]

..Works done out of love and as a part of the faith in glorifying God’s grace (See: Titus 2:11-12, Ephesians 5:25-27).

So works can be done "out of" love but not "out of" faith?

To all:

Many will attempt to make false accusations based on their brainwashing from Protestantism. They don’t really read and believe all of the Scriptures. They change them to suit their own ends. They turn God’s grace into a license for immorality of which Jude 1:4 warns us against.

It sounds to me like you despise Protestantism and you paint Protestants with a broad brush of promoting a license for immorality through your biased interpretation of Jude 1:4. That's a harsh, unfair judgment call.

Jude 1:4 is not addressing Protestantism, but certain men who have have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ. (vs. 1) Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Pearl]

Thanks for your response. I hope you didn't think I meant none of the letter matters, I was solely referring to commandments that give you the nuts and bolts of how God wants you to live as it were. I wouldn't need anyone to stress to me I should not covet, take the Lords name in vain, steal lie about others. That is within me. Yes there is much legalism on the internet. And I agree, so much that is discussed on here won't help anyone in their walk, you don't need to know it. I grew up in Slough, then lived in Blackpool for a few years, not that far from you, now I am in Worcester which I love. BTW, I have also started to use the ignore button

No I didn't think that about you. I was told as a new Christian many moons ago that our Bibles were the maker's instructions. But like in anything we can read the instructions but unless we actually put them in to practice, they are useless. And we can only do that with the Spirit's help, so that they become part of who we are and we know them in our hearts.

 

[Pearl]

Sadly, this is very true. I've been a member of multiple Christian forum sites for over 10 years now and running into legalists is not uncommon. Many of these people are 'spiritual narcissists' and instead of promoting Christ, such people exploit Christ in order to promote themselves.

The first Christian site I was a member of was lovely, no trolls no legalistic stuff but just born-again Christians enjoying fellowship. Sadly, every other one I have joined since has been invaded with those who call themselves Christians in order to use these sites for their own cultish propaganda. But as my friend Bob says - he is a pastor and in a biker tribe who evangelises in other biker tribes like Hells Angels etc - anyway as he says you can tell the difference from a sheep and a wolf in sheep's clothing by their footprints.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Please ppl DO NOT GO to YouTube to find ways to FOLLOW the Makers instructions. As Pearl has said, let the Spirit lead first through prayerful study.

 

[Daydreamer]

Please ppl DO NOT GO to YouTube to find ways to FOLLOW the Makers instructions. As Pearl has said, let the Spirit lead first through prayerful study.

When I was a child I got bored with the sermons, so used to read my bible while the sermon took place. And I would read the ten commandments. It baffled me why the tenth one was there. I could understand the importance of not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, lying etc. But why was coveting that so important? For at that time I only rationalised it meant not coveting your neighbours material goods, such as his house or expensive car. I figured God just added it at the end to make the number up to ten.

Anyway, when I reached puberty, I was immediately aware impure thoughts were sinfull. No one that I can remember preached on them at the church, but I instinctively knew they were wrong. And yet, at the time, I still, by reading the letter of the commandment only considered coveting to refer to material goods.

 

[mailmandan]

The first Christian site I was a member of was lovely, no trolls no legalistic stuff but just born-again Christians enjoying fellowship. Sadly, every other one I have joined since has been invaded with those who call themselves Christians in order to use these sites for their own cultish propaganda. But as my friend Bob says - he is a pastor and in a biker tribe who evangelises in other biker tribes like Hells Angels etc - anyway as he says you can tell the difference from a sheep and a wolf in sheep's clothing by their footprints.

Well said! There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal/pseudo" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers. The apostle Paul warned us about savage wolves.

Acts 20:28 - Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

In addition to exploiting Christ in order to promote themselves, legalists do seem to seek to draw disciples after themselves as well.

 

[farouk]

Please ppl DO NOT GO to YouTube to find ways to FOLLOW the Makers instructions. As Pearl has said, let the Spirit lead first through prayerful study.

Hi @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d There's a lot of doubtful material on Youtube.

Prayer and the Word indeed are essential...no shortcuts....