John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[HIM]

Negative.

Spirits don't physically procreate or give physical human birth to a near copy of themselves that has a separate spirit (soul). That would make zero sense.

God put HIMSELF into Mary's egg. HIMSELF.

It would be impossible for Jesus to come from that union with a totally separate, different spirit.

God IS ... a spirit.

The Spirit that animated Christ WAS God.

And Christ IS God.

You are right Christ is God. Just like John 1:1 saying, "and God was the Word". And later on in the very same chapter it says, "and the Word was made flesh". But Jesus was Jesus, a man. Not God, but a man filled with God through God's Spirit.

 

[GEN2REV]

Can we have a look at that whole passage then....?...in context....

John 17:1-8.....
"When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me."

Read it carefully again.....
This is Jesus praying to his God and Father.....
The Father has given his son "authority over all flesh"...to give the ones God gave to him, "eternal life". If Jesus is God why does he need authority from his Father to grant eternal life to the ones God gave him? Jesus was in every way a mortal human who was given the power of God's holy spirit at his baptism, to heal the sick and to raise people from the dead.....these were to be granted eternal life either in heaven as one of God's elect....or brought back to life on this earth after Jesus and his angels have cleansed it of all wickedness and those who practice it. (2 Peter 3:13) All things will be "new"..... to start again with a clean slate.

Eternal life is dependent on 'knowing' both God and his Christ. Yahweh "sent" his son, he did not send himself. God cannot die, nor can mere mortals kill God. That is nonsense, not to mention demeaning to both the Father and the son in the sacred mission to which he was assigned.

Jesus glorified his Father not himself....expressing a longing for the glory he had in heaven "before the world existed". He existed in the heavens as God's "firstborn of all creation", (Colossians 1:15) meaning that he existed with the Father, "he came forth from the Father"...."sent" by him, not that he was part of the Father.

He also said that he had made his Father's name known to his disciples.....because the Jews had failed to make God's name known long before Christ came. These men know that "everything" was given to Jesus by his Father, and that he had come forth from the Father.
The mortal men of which you speak are not said to "come forth from God Almighty".

Is Jesus mortal or not?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[GEN2REV]

LOL. Denying the proof doesn’t change the facts. It is proof.
Mystical dualists, such as yourself, cannot even speak normally without betraying your inherently contradictory doctrine.

What is your rejection criteria? What set of words would proof the doctrine false?

Without exaggeration, I've very likely already given you a hundred words, if not more, to prove Jesus IS God.

You like to go in circles though.

Circles are actually a good thing IF they are progressing upward in an ascending spiral.

Your circles go nowhere.

You oscillate between arguments back and forth after having been shown all kinds of evidence to prove each one, over ... and over ... and over again.

You're not here to learn or discuss anything with any sincerity. You're here to push agenda and to strive to brainwash your propaganda upon any and all who will listen.

I only hear and listen to God Almighty because the LORD Jesus Christ is my Shepherd and I can only hear HIS voice. Your hairy, pointed ears are finely tuned to your father's voice. And your father's will ye shall do.

The Soul Wrangler

 

[Wrangler]

Is Jesus mortal or not?

Jesus died, simultaneously proving he is mortal and NOT God.

 

[Wrangler]

Without exaggeration, I've very likely already given you a hundred words, if not more, to prove Jesus IS God.

No sir. Not one single verses says anything like the trinity. Your only option is to resort to Strawman of what it means. This is why I proudly post by acceptance criteria, The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

 

[GEN2REV]

You are right Christ is God. Just like John 1:1 saying, "and God was the Word". And later on in the very same chapter it says, "and the Word was made flesh". But Jesus was Jesus, a man. Not God, but a man filled with God through God's Spirit.

Or you could just say 'a man filled with God's Spirit.'

Jesus was one flesh body, plus one Spirit; God's Spirit.

We who have the Holy Spirit have more than one spirit. We have the spirit we were born with plus God's Spirit. That Spirit is constantly working on our spirit to train it up and to sanctify it.

Jesus had one Spirit only; from the day He was born.

God's Spirit.

God IS a Spirit - that's what He is. John 4:24.

Jesus WAS God.

And still is.

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus died, simultaneously proving he is mortal and NOT God.

His mortal flesh died.

His Spirit, which is God, cannot die.

 

[GEN2REV]

No sir. Not one single verses says anything like the trinity. Your only option is to resort to Strawman of what it means. This is why I proudly post by acceptance criteria, The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

It's tricky working with a schizophrenic.

But not impossible.

Jesus is God.

No trinity.

 

[Wrangler]

His mortal flesh died.

His Spirit, which is God, cannot die.

All Jesus had was mortal flesh. And it was not his Spirit that descended onto him at his baptism.

 

[Waiting on him]

People are still dying and "the grave" (sheol, hades) is still open for business....but according to Revelation 20:13-14 "death and the grave" will be thrown into the lake of fire to be destroyed forever. When does that take place, and how does that fit with what you believe.....?

I’m not a futurist, for me this has already taken place and the grave has no power.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is God.

An assertion with no actual Scripture saying this.

Let me ask you this. Why is Scripture as explicit as could be that YHWH is the only God, there is no other God but YHWH, but no such explicit verse saying Jesus is God?

Deut 6:4 (NOG) Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God. Other translations say God is one (singular) – and no translation says God is 3-in-one (or 2-in-one).

… I alone am the Eternal, the only God. Isaiah 45:6 (VOICE)

… I, Yahweh, am your God and there is no other. Joel 2:27

 

[GEN2REV]

All Jesus had was mortal flesh. And it was not his Spirit that descended onto him at his baptism.

Nobody only has mortal flesh. Everyone has a spirit as well.

 

[GEN2REV]

Let me ask you this. Why is Scripture as explicit as could be that YHWH is the only God, there is no other God but YHWH, but no such explicit verse saying Jesus is God?

Because you're delusional.

Jesus' Divinity is the foundation of the Bible, and of Christianity. It is made clear countless ways, with as many verses, and probably all of them have been presented to you.

You block them out, and deny their existence, because they are a threat to your agenda.

Truth? You know good and well the Bible teaches Christ is God.

 

[Rich R]

Do your worst.

What do you mean by that?

 

[GEN2REV]

What do you mean by that?

Are you from California?

And you've never heard "Do your worst."?

 

[Kermos]

Because you're delusional.


Jesus' Divinity is the foundation of the Bible, and of Christianity. It is made clear countless ways, with as many verses, and probably all of them have been presented to you.


You block them out, and deny their existence, because they are a threat to your agenda.


Truth? You know good and well the Bible teaches Christ is God.

I like your screen name. Genesis to Revelation, the whole, not picked apart.

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8) (see see the Truth [John 14:6] that God had me compose in post #283 to expose the deception of tigger 2 and Rich R).

 

[Kermos]

Because you're delusional.


Jesus' Divinity is the foundation of the Bible, and of Christianity. It is made clear countless ways, with as many verses, and probably all of them have been presented to you.


You block them out, and deny their existence, because they are a threat to your agenda.


Truth? You know good and well the Bible teaches Christ is God.

The unbelievers heartfully nullify the Holy Writ.

They need to be illumined:
@Aunty Jane @Rich R @APAK @tigger 2 @JohnPaul @Keiw @True Faith @face2face @Wrangler

Jesus being God is consistent Apostolic testimony, and herein is the Holy Writ quoted.

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The Apostle Jesus (Hebrews 3:1) calls Jesus the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) by saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20) thus declaring Himself eternal, and the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is exclusively eternal; therefore, Jesus declares Himself the One True God, YHWH!

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony.

 

[GEN2REV]

The unbelievers heartfully nullify the Holy Writ.

They need to be illumined:
@Aunty Jane @Rich R @APAK @tigger 2 @JohnPaul @Keiw @True Faith @face2face @Wrangler

Jesus being God is consistent Apostolic testimony, and herein is the Holy Writ quoted.

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of the God of us and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The Apostle Jesus (Hebrews 3:1) calls Jesus the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) by saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20) thus declaring Himself eternal, and the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) is exclusively eternal; therefore, Jesus declares Himself the One True God, YHWH!

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT JESUS WAS CREATED.

Jesus is YHWH God according to consistent Apostolic testimony.

Absolutely.

And your signature is one of my favorite verses.

Isaiah 64:8

 

[Pearl]

@Kermos The people you listed at the beginning of your post have been shown these scriptures before, by me and lots of others as well. But sadly they still adhere to the teachings of their various cults and sects and deny Jesus' deity. To deny his deity is to reject Jesus himself and there will be a price to pay for that rejection of our Saviour.

 

[Wrangler]

Because you're delusional.

Resorting to personal attack proves you have lost the argument but lack the divine spirit of humility to admit it.