Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[ewq1938]

As I said. You confirm your error.

Your avoidance screams that I am very correct.

 

[Brakelite]

Your avoidance screams that I am very correct.

Not avoiding anything. You have simply repeated that the SDA church is wrong in their doctrine. I told you the reason for your conclusion is based on a misunderstanding of what we actually believe. You expressed that misunderstanding twice. Not what am I avoiding again?

 

[No Pre-TB]

I have an extremely difficult time accepting Ellen White @Brakelite

Ex. Wikipedia
In her own opinion, Jesus did not begin as equal to God the Father but was at a certain moment promoted to equality with the Father, which triggered Lucifer's rebellion (as explained in her book Spirit of Prophecy).

Outright heresy according to John 1:1-2 and John 1:14-15
Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 22:13
I won’t post more because it would be redundant.

For the record, I’m not saying you are one. But I am saying she was based on this written belief.

Secondly, there are plenty of theological works written on lucifer showing it was the King of Babylon and not a fallen angel using Greek and Latin textual criticism, the Vulgate and Jerome’s response to using it more then once.

 

[ewq1938]

Not avoiding anything. You have simply repeated that the SDA church is wrong in their doctrine. I told you the reason for your conclusion is based on a misunderstanding of what we actually believe. You expressed that misunderstanding twice. Not what am I avoiding again?

Everything I said. You avoid that SDA teach the GT is directed at them and their beliefs. Sunday worship isn't the MOB in the bible nor is it ever said to be made law.

 

[Brakelite]

I have an extremely difficult time accepting Ellen White @Brakelite

Ex. Wikipedia
In her own opinion, Jesus did not begin as equal to God the Father but was at a certain moment promoted to equality with the Father, which triggered Lucifer's rebellion (as explained in her book Spirit of Prophecy).

Outright heresy according to John 1:1-2 and John 1:14-15
Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 22:13
I won’t post more because it would be redundant.

For the record, I’m not saying you are one. But I am saying she was based on this written belief.

Secondly, there are plenty of theological works written on lucifer showing it was the King of Babylon and not a fallen angel using Greek and Latin textual criticism, the Vulgate and Jerome’s response to using it more then once.

Okay, first I understand the reticence in accepting Ellen White. That was a hurdle for me also coming out of Catholic then pentecostal churches to become an Adventist. On the specific matter you mentioned, I put it to you that the Son was never equal to His Father in all things. What things the Son has He received by inheritance, such as authority and His name. But in rank, He was always subservient to the Father, which is why many, not all, Adventists have issues with certain formulas describing the Godhead which makes the Father, Son and Spirit all perfectly equal in everything and bound to one another without independence. As for Lucifer and his identity, that's another matter altogether, and not uniquely Adventist.

 

[quietthinker]

Your avoidance screams that I am very correct.

I am so right my head bursts with pride....no, wait.....I am so wrong my head bursts with pride! Ahhhhh, what the jiminy cricket, either way even my ego wants to hide from that one!.....right, we'll just blame and blame and blame and maybe if we speak long and loud enough, the boat will float!

 

[ewq1938]

I am so right my head bursts with pride....no, wait.....I am so wrong my head bursts with pride! Ahhhhh, what the jiminy cricket, either way even my ego wants to hide from that one!.....right, we'll just blame and blame and blame and maybe if we speak long and loud enough, the boat will float!

And the name of that boat is "The Avoidance"

 

[quietthinker]

And the name of that boat is "The Avoidance"

hardly!

 

[Brakelite]

Everything I said. You avoid that SDA teach the GT is directed at them and their beliefs. Sunday worship isn't the MOB in the bible nor is it ever said to be made law.

And I said you were wrong, that is what you are avoiding. That is not what seventh day adventists teach. Do some more reading of our actual materials... There's plenty available... And delve a little deeper than
superficial comments from our opponents. Sunday sacredness is not the mark of the beast... Yet. It will be when it is legislated as a mandatory day of rest in direct contradistinction to the 4th commandment. But I suggest you do some Bible study and historical analysis to find out who the actual beast is (Revelation 13:1...), then it's much easier to make conclusions regarding it's mark.
PS the great tribulation (there has already been two tribulations affecting the church, and there is one to come... Shorter but more intense than previous) will affect the entire planet, Christian and non Christian alike. And by the end, there will be only two sides to the conflict, just was with Cain and Abel, the final issue will be over worship, and the conflict between brothers. Those who keep the commandments of God, and this worship in spirit and in truth, and those who keep the commandments of men, whose worship is vain.

 

[Brakelite]

I have an extremely difficult time accepting Ellen White @Brakelite

Ex. Wikipedia
In her own opinion, Jesus did not begin as equal to God the Father but was at a certain moment promoted to equality with the Father, which triggered Lucifer's rebellion (as explained in her book Spirit of Prophecy).

Outright heresy according to John 1:1-2 and John 1:14-15
Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 22:13
I won’t post more because it would be redundant.

For the record, I’m not saying you are one. But I am saying she was based on this written belief.

Secondly, there are plenty of theological works written on lucifer showing it was the King of Babylon and not a fallen angel using Greek and Latin textual criticism, the Vulgate and Jerome’s response to using it more then once.

I must admit, going to secular wiki to discover what we teach is somewhat dodgy don't you think? Do you have any idea how many Adventist web sites there are with every one of our doctrines fully explained with references to scripture in support? Do you know we don't need Ellen White to justify our fundamental doctrines and beliefs? Do you know that Ellen White did not initiate one single Seventh Day Adventist doctrine?

 

[ewq1938]

And I said you were wrong, that is what you are avoiding. That is not what seventh day adventists teach. Do some more reading of our actual materials... There's plenty available... And delve a little deeper than
superficial comments from our opponents. Sunday sacredness is not the mark of the beast... Yet. It will be when it is legislated as a mandatory day of rest in direct contradistinction to the 4th commandment.

And that isn't biblical. The MOB is related to buying and selling as part of the beasts financial system, Rev 13. It is unrelated to any day of the week. There is no "legislated as a mandatory day of rest" found in biblical prophecy. (it only exists outside of the bible and should be rejected) That is purely made up doctrine only in the SDA religion further proving what I have said.

 

[Brakelite]

And that isn't biblical. The MOB is related to buying and selling as part of the beasts financial system, Rev 13. It is unrelated to any day of the week. There is no "legislated as a mandatory day of rest" found in biblical prophecy. (it only exists outside of the bible and should be rejected) That is purely made up doctrine only in the SDA religion further proving what I have said.

So the most dire warning in scripture against offending God is in being involved in a digital currency system? And tell us... Who is this beast you speak of?

 

[ewq1938]

So the most dire warning in scripture against offending God is in being involved in a digital currency system?

It doesn't say "digital". Here are the verses:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

And tell us... Who is this beast you speak of?

The two beasts are found in Rev 13.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Do you know we don't need Ellen White to justify our fundamental doctrines and beliefs?

Do you agree she’s a false prophet?

 

[Brakelite]

It doesn't say "digital". Here are the verses:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.



The two beasts are found in Rev 13.

Yet that is what is coming, a cashless society whereby authorities can switch you off with the press of a button, and it will be impossible for you to buy and sell. Unless you have the mark. But I get where you are coming from... Your narrow vision restricts the mark to a tattoo or stamp or barcode or tiny injected microchip... Yet you forget that what Satan wants is not your money. He wants your worship. And the first beast is his proxy... You obey his beast and he gets the glory. In the final end though that won't be enough for him. He wants you to bow down at his feet and surrender everything. That's true worship. The decision is who are you going to give that to? Whose mark are you going to accept? It involves surrender. It involves obedience. The mark of the beast... Or seal of God?
I know where the beasts are described...I was asking you, who are they?

 

[Brakelite]

Do you agree she’s a false prophet?

Absolutely not.

 

[ewq1938]

Yet that is what is coming, a cashless society whereby authorities can switch you off with the press of a button, and it will be impossible for you to buy and sell. Unless you have the mark. But I get where you are coming from... Your narrow vision restricts the mark to a tattoo or stamp or barcode or tiny injected microchip...

It is not narrow minded to stick to the biblical text without adding man made beliefs into it. It is your denomination that adds imaginary stuff to the text by claiming the MOB is Sunday worship. The bible also doesn't speak of a cashless society. One could have the MOB and use cash.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you agree she’s a false prophet?

Someone should show her prophecies and then show how they did not come true to prove her a false prophet.

 

[quietthinker]

It is not narrow minded to stick to the biblical text without adding man made beliefs into it. It is your denomination that adds imaginary stuff to the text by claiming the MOB is Sunday worship. The bible also doesn't speak of a cashless society. One could have the MOB and use cash.

ewq, how to say this?.....your view is so narrow you do not understand how narrow it is. You think you stick to the biblical text yet what you're actually sticking to is a muddle. A timber cartwheel mentality will never keep up with inflated rubber tyres.

Anyway, as long as you defend what you think is great insight and while you maintain a closed door to any other way of seeing, you effectively make your choices.

 

[ewq1938]

ewq, how to say this?.....your view is so narrow you do not understand how narrow it is.

It is not narrow minded to stick to the biblical text without adding man made beliefs into it. Your view is wide and you don't see how wide it is. SDA doctrine has been added to the understanding of the text with ZERO biblical support.