Is This A "Christian" or Is This A "Religious" Forum?

[PropphecyStudent]

I wonder how many of this Forum's posters are actually "Christians" versus "Religious". From my estimation, it appears a significant minoriry are the former, and a significant majority are the latter.

It's too bad that human nature is apparently the same 2,000 years ago as it is today. But it is funny that the modern religious hold their nose at the ancient religious, when they're the quite the same.

 

[Angelina]

Hi ProphecyStudent!

An interesting assessment... :huh:

Shalom!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You seem to be rather smug and self-assured. And a prophecy student. Tell me, what is your knowledge of Zechariah 14:5?

 

[goodshepard55]

Welcome to you both...Hope you find a home here...Enjoy..Love and peace to both..

 

[HammerStone]

Welcome to Christianity Board.

I'd like to think CB is not just full of "religious" people, though I'm a little unsure what judgment might have been passed already in this case. I'll hope to see you around the board and maybe impressions will change.

 

[PropphecyStudent]

Hi All, and thanks for your responses.

First let me say from my observations that the first individual is a Christian (capital "C") . Secondly, please allow me to share that in the "ShoutBox" a poster provided the following:

Comm.Arnold : (07 January 2012 - 05:13 PM) No I don't really listen to Peter.


Isn't this a politically correct, social christianity (small "c"), religious, -- accepted statement? Would Jesus have asserted the following:

Luke 9
[sup]49[/sup] Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.”
[sup]50[/sup] But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us[sup][c][/sup] is on our[sup][d][/sup] side.”


... or would he have said something closer to:


Luke 11

[sup]47[/sup] Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.


... ??

 

[PropphecyStudent]

Re: Comm.Arnold : (07 January 2012 - 05:13 PM) No I don't really listen to Peter.


Per the Christianity Board Forum Rules:

We'll do our best to keep the community clean and remove those not of the doctrine of Christ as instructed in the 2nd Epistle from John:2 John 1:9-11Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


The Forum Rules stipulate that ALL scripture is inspired, -- including what was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, and Paul.

 

[aspen]

I am a Christian who uses the language of religion to communicate with God like all Christians.

 

[PropphecyStudent]

Hi Aspen,

Certainly Peter believed he was fully in conformance with Jesus. When Jesus spoke of his pending death, we all know the end result of Jesus calling Peter "satan".

The issue is two fold:

1. Is this a Forum where followers of Jesus present and receive from God and one another?

2. If a person asserts that he follows Jesus but ceases to follow in His footsteps, (and thereby merely being ~religious~), should this person be rebuked?


And given the citation already provided, (Comm.Arnold : (07 January 2012 - 05:13 PM) No I don't really listen to Peter), should someone rebuke this individual?

 

[PropphecyStudent]

I would like to acknowlege that the comment cited above was addressed by one of the Forum Moderators in the "Shout Box". And interestingly enough, this is the same person which clearly evidences the Christ Life as noted in my Post #6.

Clearly scripture demands that we exhort, encourage, edify, AND rebuke error in the body:


Titus 2:15

[sup]15[/sup] Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.


2 Timothy 4:2

[sup]2[/sup] Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.


... for even Paul rebuked Peter, a Disciple, and Paul was not out of order but was in obedience to God.

 

[aspen]

I think we need to practice compassion towards members who may be operating at the limit of their abilities.

Also, I think religion vs. following Christ is a false dichotomy - religion is a language that we use to conceptualize God and to relate to Him. You are using the word 'religion' to describe empty lip service towards God for the purpose of self-exaltation. I just refer to these folks as future members of the Body of Christ because I believe God will be faithful in their lives and bring them to Him in His time.

 

[Prentis]

I think we need to practice compassion towards members who may be operating at the limit of their abilities.

Also, I think religion vs. following Christ is a false dichotomy - religion is a language that we use to conceptualize God and to relate to Him. You are using the word 'religion' to describe empty lip service towards God for the purpose of self-exaltation. I just refer to these folks as future members of the Body of Christ because I believe God will be faithful in their lives and bring them to Him in His time.

What you're saying sounds nice to the ear, but...

Is religion the means that Jesus used? Did he congratulate the Pharisees for their devotion? They used religion to communicate to God too!

Following Christ is NOT religion. It is a relationship. Anything short of this is fooling ourselves into thinking we are following Christ, when we are really just being part of a big human organism. The difference between all religions and the church is that religions are run by men, the church is run by God. If we see churches run by men, it is because they have lost their first love.

We are not here to 'conceptualize' God or 'relate' to him. Those things are all done according to human understanding! We are here to actually encounter him, and be transformed into his image.

 

[biggandyy]

I see this site as sludging through a marsh of needless heresy,false teaching, and crass emotionalsim dotted with the occasional high ground of solid Christian teaching. I always head for the high ground

But I love this site nonetheless.

 

[PropphecyStudent]

What you're saying sounds nice to the ear, but...

Is religion the means that Jesus used? Did he congratulate the Pharisees for their devotion? They used religion to communicate to God too!

Following Christ is NOT religion. It is a relationship. Anything short of this is fooling ourselves into thinking we are following Christ, when we are really just being part of a big human organism. The difference between all religions and the church is that religions are run by men, the church is run by God. If we see churches run by men, it is because they have lost their first love.

We are not here to 'conceptualize' God or 'relate' to him. Those things are all done according to human understanding! We are here to actually encounter him, and be transformed into his image.

I wish all were are founded in the distinction between ~religion~ and Christianity! For as each child of God is uniquely called to a specific gifting for the edification of the saints, so too those children can easily discern the ones who do not enter the sheepfold by the gate but comes in another way, is a thief and a bandit, (Ref. John 10:1).

Certainly the true sheep are not perfect (as evidenced by Jesus calling Peter "satan"), but such is the importance of a righteous rebuke to those with false doctines (i.e., "I don't really listen to Peter.").

But the question to this Forum is whether false or erroneous doctrines should be admonished or excused, -- and if properly employed, could it lead that person to a closer relationship with Christ?

 

[aspen]

What you're saying sounds nice to the ear, but...

Is religion the means that Jesus used? Did he congratulate the Pharisees for their devotion? They used religion to communicate to God too!

Following Christ is NOT religion. It is a relationship. Anything short of this is fooling ourselves into thinking we are following Christ, when we are really just being part of a big human organism. The difference between all religions and the church is that religions are run by men, the church is run by God. If we see churches run by men, it is because they have lost their first love.

We are not here to 'conceptualize' God or 'relate' to him. Those things are all done according to human understanding! We are here to actually encounter him, and be transformed into his image.

The Pharisees were misusing religion. There is an interesting history behind the very recent separation of religion and spirituality. It started with the Reformation - a stripping of the altars. Although, the Reformers considered themselves religious and would never dream of separating it from spirituality. The Quietist movement attempted to separate spirituality from everything else and failed. The more Western society moved away from church authority, the more it started to condemn 'religion'. Today, the consequences of this separation is heresies galore and relativism withing the church. We think we know better than all other Christians who lived before us and the leaders of the church are not trusted.

New Age, Wicca, and the resurgence of Paganism are all suspicious of organised religion.

Religion is not a bad word, it is a language we use to relate to God - the disciples were religious - so was Paul.

How are we supposed to have a relationship with God without relating to Him, Prentis?

 

[Prentis]

The Pharisees were misusing religion. There is an interesting history behind the very recent separation of religion and spirituality. It started with the Reformation - a stripping of the altars. Although, the Reformers considered themselves religious and would never dream of separating it from spirituality. The Quietist movement attempted to separate spirituality from everything else and failed. The more Western society moved away from church authority, the more it started to condemn 'religion'. Today, the consequences of this separation is heresies galore and relativism withing the church. We think we know better than all other Christians who lived before us and the leaders of the church are not trusted.

New Age, Wicca, and the resurgence of Paganism are all suspicious of organised religion.

Religion is not a bad word, it is a language we use to relate to God - the disciples were religious - so was Paul.

How are we supposed to have a relationship with God without relating to Him, Prentis?

Maybe the way you use the word relating and the way I understand it are different.

Paul was stripped of his religiosity, and the disciples also. Christ did not come to make a better religion, he came to re-establish union with God. The purpose is that we would have access to the presence of God, the sanctuary, that we could enter into the holy of holies... And be filled with the fulness of God, as a body.

The issue with religion is that it is all external. But the external expression must flow from an internal newness of life. It starts in the heart! The thing is, when it starts in the heart there is no telling where it goes, and it might even go against the established 'religious authority', but never against the Spirit. In the name of Moses, people did things Moses would of shunned (the Pharisees, for example).... Has human nature somehow improved so that when man is in charge of religion today and does things in the name of Jesus, it's different.

Religion is according to what we can do for God. Christianity is based on submission to God, a relationship whereby it becomes what Christ wants to do through us. We become vehicles of his life.

 

[aspen]

Maybe the way you use the word relating and the way I understand it are different.

Paul was stripped of his religiosity, and the disciples also. Christ did not come to make a better religion, he came to re-establish union with God. The purpose is that we would have access to the presence of God, the sanctuary, that we could enter into the holy of holies... And be filled with the fulness of God, as a body.

The issue with religion is that it is all external. But the external expression must flow from an internal newness of life. It starts in the heart! The thing is, when it starts in the heart there is no telling where it goes, and it might even go against the established 'religious authority', but never against the Spirit. In the name of Moses, people did things Moses would of shunned (the Pharisees, for example).... Has human nature somehow improved so that when man is in charge of religion today and does things in the name of Jesus, it's different.

Religion is according to what we can do for God. Christianity is based on submission to God, a relationship whereby it becomes what Christ wants to do through us. We become vehicles of his life.

It is too bad that the word 'religion' has been equated with pewsitter or legalist. The word has been misused for too long. If we didn't have religion we would not have the church or the Bible. If we didn't have religion we would not even know the name of God. Religion is the language we use to talk and walk with God and engage in a relationship with Him.

Paul was not stripped of his religion - He just finally met God.

I will give you this, religion can be practiced without God. There is no doubt about it, but that is not because religion is bad or wrong - it is because God has not brought the person into a sanctifying relationship yet.

The reason I want to use the word religion accurately is because I worked at a church that promoted an atmosphere of pewsitting - people really had family pews with their names posted on them - may as well of said 'bigwig' above their names. These were definitely the important people - at least in their own minds. Now, instead of simply dismissing these folks as 'country club' members, I really got to know several families. I ended up really loving these people and witnessed Christ breaking through their fear, which was manifesting as arrogance. By the time I left the church to go to graduate school, I had seen a real heart change in their lives - they began to participate in religion correctly. They were involved in the service of their community - not for their own glory, but for God's.

 

[Prentis]

It is too bad that the word 'religion' has been equated with pewsitter or legalist. The word has been misused for too long. If we didn't have religion we would not have the church or the Bible. If we didn't have religion we would not even know the name of God. Religion is the language we use to talk and walk with God and engage in a relationship with Him.

Paul was not stripped of his religion - He just finally met God.

I will give you this, religion can be practiced without God. There is no doubt about it, but that is not because religion is bad or wrong - it is because God has not brought the person into a sanctifying relationship yet.

The reason I want to use the word religion accurately is because I worked at a church that promoted an atmosphere of pewsitting - people really had family pews with their names posted on them - may as well of said 'bigwig' above their names. These were definitely the important people - at least in their own minds. Now, instead of simply dismissing these folks as 'country club' members, I really got to know several families. I ended up really loving these people and witnessed Christ breaking through their fear, which was manifesting as arrogance. By the time I left the church to go to graduate school, I had seen a real heart change in their lives - they began to participate in religion correctly. They were involved in the service of their community - not for their own glory, but for God's.

Ok, I see that. You use the word to talk about people coming to do what is right, love their neighbour, so on so forth.

But I see christianity as being one step beyond that. It is about the life of the Spirit being in us, and us ministering this life that they too might enter eternal life NOW.

 

[aspen]

Ok, I see that. You use the word to talk about people coming to do what is right, love their neighbour, so on so forth.

But I see christianity as being one step beyond that. It is about the life of the Spirit being in us, and us ministering this life that they too might enter eternal life NOW.

I understand, but you need to realize that you are a lot farther along in your sanctification than people who are pewsitters. God had to start out with the external law when He made Himself known to the Hebrew people - which is one of the reasons why there were so many big miracles. It was only later, when Jesus told the Pharisee that no more miracles would convince them - God had already used that approach - they needed to look back to the sign of Jonah, which foreshadowed Christ's death and resurrection.

One of the services the Church provides is the scaffolding necessary for pewsitters to learn the language of God and hopefully remain awake while the Holy Spirit woos them. I believe all people are precious to God and through His faithfulness, He will finish the work He has started. Religion also provides the backbone for worship and brings us out of our heads to really experience God in worship.

Protestants have transferred this authority and reality to the Bible - we all need to have a concrete portion of our hope. We have one foot in this world and the other in the next - it is great to have tools in both.

So remember that pewsitters are like people poised on a high dive - they are frightened and need to feel the diving board under their feet before they take the plunge. They need mercy and compassion and encouragement and prayer and perhaps God's prompting through us.

 

[Prentis]

Yes, I agree with that.