Preterism is Wrong

[ewq1938]

It's my opinion that Jesus spoke symbolically of the temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2, not a literal destruction as seen in 70AD

He was speaking about the temple and it's buildings so it was literal. Not all were taken down in AD70 so that would have only been a shadow of what would eventually come.

 

[rwb]

It's my opinion that Jesus spoke symbolically of the temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2, not a literal destruction as seen in 70AD, John's account is seen below, with greater information and detail

When Jesus Christ died on Calvary, the veil in the temple was rent/torn, the temple was destroyed, gone in the spiritual, never to be seen again

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 14:18-21KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

I agree. The destruction of the city and Temple that came in 70 AD was fulfillment of the wrath of God coming against a people that had become an abomination unto Him. But the murder of Christ at Calvary was the final AOD that made the city and temple an abomination that assured their utter destruction. Christ told them about 30 years before Calvary they had already become desolate.

Matthew 23:37-38 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree. The destruction of the city and Temple that came in 70 AD was fulfillment of the wrath of God coming against a people that had become an abomination unto Him.

Glad your in agreement because I'm not!

70AD Jerusalem had no fulfillment in Matthew Chapter 24 whatsoever, "none"!

 

[rwb]

Glad your in agreement because I'm not!

70AD Jerusalem had no fulfillment in Matthew Chapter 24 whatsoever, "none"!

I didn't mean to imply 70 AD was what Christ warned His disciples of. He simply answered their question concerning the city and temple they were so enamored with. Trying to make them understand they should not look to the city and temple with admiration, Christ tells them not one stone you see here shall remain standing. Has nothing to do with "great tribulation" Christ tells them will come upon the Church as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

I didn't mean to imply 70 AD was what Christ warned His disciples of. He simply answered their question concerning the city and temple they were so enamored with. Trying to make them understand they should not look to the city and temple with admiration, Christ tells them not one stone you see here shall remain standing. Has nothing to do with "great tribulation" Christ tells them will come upon the Church as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth.

No hard feelings,, the destruction of the temple in 70AD had no fulfillment regarding Matthew Chapter 24 "None", you can claim whatever you want "I Strongly Disagree"!

Jesus spoke symbolically of the temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2, not a literal destruction as seen in 70AD, John's account is seen below, with greater information and detail

When Jesus Christ died on Calvary, the veil in the temple was rent/torn, the temple was destroyed, gone in the spiritual, never to be seen again

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 14:18-21KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

[rwb]

No hard feelings,, the destruction of the temple in 70AD had no fulfillment regarding Matthew Chapter 24 "None", you can claim whatever you want "I Strongly Disagree"!

Jesus spoke symbolically of the temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2, not a literal destruction as seen in 70AD, John's account is seen below, with greater information and detail

When Jesus Christ died on Calvary, the veil in the temple was rent/torn, the temple was destroyed, gone in the spiritual, never to be seen again

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 14:18-21KJV
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

History proves the words of Christ were much more than merely symbolic!

 

[Truth7t7]

History proves the words of Christ were much more than merely symbolic!

The temple destruction was symbolic as clearly shown, the temple was the body of the Lord "We Disagree"

 

[Timtofly]

There is indisputable three-way consistency and corroboration across Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20, and Daniel 9:26-27 identifying the AoD.

It was the Roman armies.

Which is just Preterism disguised as Historism.

The destruction of the temple was explained at the Temple. Nothing about 70AD is in the Olivet Discourse, not even the AoD is about 70AD. Only Luke gives a passing nod to some armies in 66AD, and to flee the area. That is as close to 70AD the Olivet Discourse gets. And it is debatable if Luke at that point is still at the temple or has Jesus moved on to the mount of Olives alone with the disciples.

"And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives. And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him."

Obviously Jesus taught the same themes at the temple as He did in private with the disciples. Many get confused and place Luke on the mount, when Jesus was still at the Temple talking to all those at the Temple.

The Gospels give an over all account of both the temple teachings and the more private teachings. One should be able to discern between the two.

 

[covenantee]

Which is just Preterism disguised as Historism.

The destruction of the temple was explained at the Temple. Nothing about 70AD is in the Olivet Discourse, not even the AoD is about 70AD. Only Luke gives a passing nod to some armies in 66AD, and to flee the area. That is as close to 70AD the Olivet Discourse gets. And it is debatable if Luke at that point is still at the temple or has Jesus moved on to the mount of Olives alone with the disciples.

"And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives. And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him."

Obviously Jesus taught the same themes at the temple as He did in private with the disciples. Many get confused and place Luke on the mount, when Jesus was still at the Temple talking to all those at the Temple.

The Gospels give an over all account of both the temple teachings and the more private teachings. One should be able to discern between the two.

Which is just delusionism debunked by Scripture and history.

 

[Timtofly]

Which is just delusionism debunked by Scripture and history.

And your post is just delusional opinion. I gave Scripture. All you offered was opinion.

 

[covenantee]

And your post is just delusional opinion. I gave Scripture. All you offered was opinion.

Something's wrong with your spectacles or your memory or both. Better get a new set.

 

[Timtofly]

Something's wrong with your spectacles or your memory or both. Better get a new set.

It is you who attempts to debunk God's Word with your opinion. If that makes you comfortable.....

 

[Randy Kluth]

The one reply Christ gave to the questions the disciples ask was, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." It can be correctly argued that this came true for the nation in 70 AD. But that doesn't mean the AOD was connected exclusively to Jerusalem and the Old Covenant Temple. It can also be argued, correctly IMO that the AOD that brought Jerusalem to ruin is the same AOD that will bring to ruin any Church that commits the same abomination that the Jews of old had committed when they rejected the Messiah.

That seems more a rationalization than an exposition. It can indeed be argued that the AoD was directed *exclusively* at Jerusalem and the temple. The AoD was a direct fulfillment of Dan 9.

Dan 9.26 The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

This is directed specifically and exclusively at the city of Jerusalem and the temple in Jerusalem. It was for this reason that Jesus proclaimed, in his Olivet Discourse, that the army surrounding Jerusalem would destroy both that city and the temple.

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

It may be argued that Jesus, in the same Discourse, warned his Disciples, part of the Jewish Church, that they would suffer persecution, from pagans and apostate Jews alike. And that is true. But the "great tribulation" Jesus declared was coming upon Israel as a "punishment" would begin with the fall of Jerusalem by the Romans and extended throughout the age by a long Jewish Diaspora.

In principle this applies to all Christians everywhere, since pagans and apostate Christians equally persecute Christians in countries wherever they live. Again, what happened in Israel was intended, by God, to be an example for Christians in all nations.

In other words, in my opinion, the AoD is specifically the Roman Army referred to in both Dan 9 and Luke 21 who would lay siege to Jerusalem and ultimately destroy the temple. The AoD is interpreted differently by many Christians--this is just my take on it.

 

[jeffweeder]

The temple destruction was symbolic as clearly shown, the temple was the body of the Lord "We Disagree"

It happened literally.... clearly.
Their exile into the nations happened literally...clearly.
What is also clear is two temple cleansings that you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge despite the scriptural evidence presented to you.

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by [hostile] armies, then understand [with confident assurance] that her complete destruction is near. 21 At that time, those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city (Jerusalem) must get out, and those who are [out] in the country must not enter the city; 22 for these are days of vengeance [of rendering full justice or satisfaction], so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those women who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For great trouble and anguish will be on the land, and wrath and retribution on this people [Israel]. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed).


It seems to me that Jesus would have failed as a prophet if he neglected to warn the people of the coming disaster....that actually took place Bro'

 

[covenantee]

It is you who attempts to debunk God's Word with your opinion. If that makes you comfortable.....

Get your new spectacles and memory. Then we can examine your delusions.

Why not tell us about the flight of the Judean Christians?

 

[ewq1938]

It seems to me that Jesus would have failed as a prophet if he neglected to warn the people of the coming disaster....that actually took place Bro'

Did he warn people about the Nazi's and the final solution?

 

[Truth7t7]

It happened literally.... clearly.
Their exile into the nations happened literally...clearly.
What is also clear is two temple cleansings that you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge despite the scriptural evidence presented to you.

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by [hostile] armies, then understand [with confident assurance] that her complete destruction is near. 21 At that time, those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city (Jerusalem) must get out, and those who are [out] in the country must not enter the city; 22 for these are days of vengeance [of rendering full justice or satisfaction], so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those women who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For great trouble and anguish will be on the land, and wrath and retribution on this people [Israel]. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed).


It seems to me that Jesus would have failed as a prophet if he neglected to warn the people of the coming disaster....that actually took place Bro'

Yes We Disagree, Your Reformed Preterist Eschatology Is Error

70AD Jerusalem played no part in fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24 Whatsoever as was clearly shown, the Lord's body represented the destroyed temple

Matthew 24:15 (Daniel's AOD) Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation), these are future events unfulfilled, as you have been shown several times

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[covenantee]

Yes We Disagree, Your Reformed Preterist Eschatology Is Error

70AD Jerusalem played no part in fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24 Whatsoever as was clearly shown, the Lord's body represented the destroyed temple

Matthew 24:15 (Daniel's AOD) Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation), these are future events unfulfilled, as you have been shown several times

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Messiah is the AOD?

That's a new one.

 

[Truth7t7]

Messiah is the AOD?

That's a new one.

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A "Future" Literal Human Man, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[covenantee]

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A "Future" Literal Human Man, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

What happened to Daniel 9:27?

"He" is Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9:27 when you do the grammar.

But you're still afraid to do the grammar.

So you're declaring that Messiah the Prince is the AoD.

Don't you think that's blasphemy?