What is the point of a forum if you cannot speak?

[Matthias]

Then the unorthodox forum should have been left for you guys

It’s still there and it’s there for the benefit of all members of Christianity Board. One topic is presently not allowed (by new policy) to be discussed there.

What is orthodox and what is heterodox / unorthodox? A large and ever growing number of trinitarians have rejected historical orthodox trinitarianism.

Suppression of discussion will not bring more people to trinitarianism. If I were a trinitarian, I wouldn’t be satisfied with that.

I’m an ex-trinitarian, and I’m not satisfied with that suppression. If I’ve missed or misunderstood something, the new policy is depriving trinitarians from helping me [and those who have rejected historical orthodoxy - as decided upon at Nicaea (325), Constantinople (381), Chalcedon (451)] to see that I am [they are]. I don’t think I’ve missed or misunderstood anything about it, but I leave open the possibility that I have.

For a board which formerly endorsed Nicene Christianity by policy, suppression of all discussion about Nicene Christianity is a pretty shocking development. Christianity is going down a new path on Christianity Board. I, for one, don’t think it’s a better path. We’ll see.

 

[Peterlag]

It’s all in the way you express it, apparently. @Peterlag wrote a post this evening which asserts that Jesus became God in the 4th century. A moderator reviewed the post, at my request, and stated that it does not violate the new policy.

I suppose the decision could be reconsidered and reversed, but it may be an indication that the new policy is more flexible than it initially appeared to be.

"When Jesus became God" is a book written by Richard E. Rubenstein
Richard is a Jewish historian who just writes on the history. I picked up a copy at my local library.

 

[Matthias]

"When Jesus became God" is a book written by Richard E. Rubenstein
Richard is a Jewish historian who just writes on the history. I picked up a copy at my local library.


View attachment 27397

Thanks. I met him at a theological conference we attended together. I’m not sure but I think we were both speakers at that particular conference. He wrote a nice, personalized, inscription in my copy of his book.

I just finished reading Tatian’s Address To The Greeks. He said something profound that I’ll quote here. I hope you‘ll find it useful.

”I will not bring forward witnesses from among ourselves, but rather have recourse to Greeks. To do the former would be foolish, because it would not be allowed by you; but the other will surprise you, when, by contending against you with your own weapons, I adduce arguments of which you had no suspicion.”

(Chapter 31)

He is using the concessions of his opponents (in this case, Greek philosophers) to help make his case against them.

Few trinitarians at this level of conversation will read Rubenstein’s book. They will tend to reject it out of hand on the grounds that it isn’t written by a trinitarian, and therefore, is worthless. Trinitarian scholars have read it and make concessions to him. To reach the average trinitarian, don’t take Rubenstein to them; take the trinitarian concessions to Rubenstein to them.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

so what if you let atheist into this forum and preach? in all section of this forum
since you gave them the privilege to do so what do you think will happen afterwards?

nothing I'm just trying to be unique in all my comments
for the sake of fairness what if we also let them since you were talking about freedom to speak whatever you want to say

and that's probably why the authorities cut you off even though I don't know what happen

 

[Wrangler]

Don’t you think we tried that …….

A Taoist expression:

Before enlightenment, chop wood.
After enlightenment, chop wood.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Probably because "a little leaven leavens the whole lump." The JW theology is contrary to sound Doctrine.

I know you don't see it that way, but the majority does.

No doubt sir, but what happens to the majority according to Jesus. One has to meet the requirements of salvation to receive it Charlie. And the Bible gives us those requirements.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There's a lot of things you can't say on Christian forums. The real question is, what is it that you are trying to promote by breaking the rules?

Christians are assigned to teach others to observe all the things Jesus commanded, and if they are not allowed to do that, the problem is not with the Christian Devin.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The issue is not free speech but attacks on fundamental Bible doctrines.

I fully agree Enoch, you have hit the nail on the head. Christians should not be under the dictates of personal opinion, rather scripture, true Bible doctrine.

 

[dev553344]

Christians are assigned to teach others to observe all the things Jesus commanded, and if they are not allowed to do that, the problem is not with the Christian Devin.

And I think that's the problem with forums like this. People think they are called to teach and preach to everyone on the internet. This is why so many internet preachers are out there, and most promote false doctrine. Everyone that is new wants to be a teacher. Most people should do as the Alcoholics Anonymous teaches, be quiet and listen when they first become a Christian. Not that everyone is new though and I'm certainly not saying that about you Robert.

I don't get on here to preach and teach. I got on here to be friendly and learn more about the scriptures and what they mean to me individually. I take away what I feel the spirit is telling me is correct and ignore the rest.

So yes, people that get onto the internet to teach are usually the problem. You'll notice if you research that 96% of Christians observe Christmas. Yet 80% here do not. Why is that? That we have so many unusual Christians on this forum? And are they called to teach unusual Christianity?

 

[Matthias]

so what if you let atheist into this forum and preach? in all section of this forum
since you gave them the privilege to do so what do you think will happen afterwards?

nothing I'm just trying to be unique in all my comments
for the sake of fairness what if we also let them since you were talking about freedom to speak whatever you want to say

and that's probably why the authorities cut you off even though I don't know what happen

Atheists aren’t Christians. Christians aren’t interested in hearing atheists preach and atheists aren’t interested in hearing Christians preach. Christians aren’t interested in hearing Christians preach on discussion forum. Maybe “preach” isn’t the best word selection.

Just as an aside, I’m currently reading Athenagoras’ A Plea For Christians. One his complaints to the Roman government is that non-Christian Roman cItizens are accusing Christians of being atheists. The Roman government tolerated its citizens believing and practicing many ridiculous things and nothing, Athenagoras argues, is more foolish than them accusing Christians of being atheists! (I don’t agree with Athenagoras on every point, and neither will trinitarians, but I’m really enjoying reading about this time period in the history of Christianity. Much can be learned from it.)

Christianity Board must decide whether it wants to promote civil discussion of all forms and aspects of Christianity (and other religions) in some orderly fashion or promote a church which doesn’t allow discussion of anything but a generic “God”. (I have friends and acquaintances who tell me that what is happening here brings to their minds what happened in government approved Christian churches in China. That may be a stretch but it’s worth considering.)

 

[Bob Estey]

All of us that post here speak some truth, some falsehood. But we bear testimony of our Gods. It is ashamed that someone who determines what Biblical truth is prevents others from stating their opinion, who is in favor of that?

None of us know everything. I think censorship should be kept to a minimum. I think there are websites where the truth sometimes gets censored, simply because someone doesn't agree with it.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

Christianity Board must decide whether it wants to promote civil discussion of all forms and aspects of Christianity (and other religions) in some orderly fashion or promote a church which doesn’t allow discussion of anything but a generic “God”. (I have friends and acquaintances who tell me that what is happening here brings to their minds what happened in government approved Christian churches in China. That may be a stretch but it’s worth considering.)

or maybe cb can just let all but under different types sub forums

 

[Peterlag]

Thanks. I met him at a theological conference we attended together. I’m not sure but I think we were both speakers at that particular conference. He wrote a nice, personalized, inscription in my copy of his book.

I just finished reading Tatian’s Address To The Greeks. He said something profound that I’ll quote here. I hope you‘ll find it useful.

”I will not bring forward witnesses from among ourselves, but rather have recourse to Greeks. To do the former would be foolish, because it would not be allowed by you; but the other will surprise you, when, by contending against you with your own weapons, I adduce arguments of which you had no suspicion.”

(Chapter 31)

He is using the concessions of his opponents (in this case, Greek philosophers) to help make his case against them.

Few trinitarians at this level of conversation will read Rubenstein’s book. They will tend to reject it out of hand on the grounds that it isn’t written by a trinitarian, and therefore, is worthless. Trinitarian scholars have read it and make concessions to him. To reach the average trinitarian, don’t take Rubenstein to them; take the trinitarian concessions to Rubenstein to them.

I told a very good friend of mine who is Catholic about the Bishop who lost the debate in Rubenstein's book. I went on to say had the other Bishop won the debate the Christian history would have been more like the way I see it. He said oh no, that other Bishop (and he knew the guys name) was an unbeliever who was like you (you meaning me) rejecting the truth.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

I fully agree Enoch, you have hit the nail on the head. Christians should not be under the dictates of personal opinion, rather scripture, true Bible doctrine.

but isn't that's just another type of personal opinion your pushing towards the authorities of this website

 

[Peterlag]

or maybe cb can just let all but under different types sub forums

Call it whatever you like. I have been silenced. Christian data that I posted that took years of honest biblical research was taken down... gone just like that with a touch of a few clicks.

 

[Peterlag]

but isn't that's just another type of personal opinion your pushing towards the authorities of this website

I will comment on that too. It's there website and they have the right to manage it the way they see fit. I have a website and advertise on Facebook. I too delete a whole bunch of stuff that I feel is not supporting my beliefs.

 

[Matthias]

I told a very good friend of mine who is Catholic about the Bishop who lost the debate in Rubenstein's book. I went on to say had the other Bishop won the debate the Christian history would have been more like the way I see it. He said oh no, that other Bishop (and he knew the guys name) was an unbeliever who was like you (you meaning me) rejecting the truth.

Everyone must be allowed to hear and weigh the evidence, then come to their own conclusions. It won’t do anyone any good to stand before Jesus and say “All my friends believed it.”

Christianity is filled with wheat and tares. The church has taught good and right things; the church has taught bad and wrong things. It won’t do anyone any good to stand before Jesus and say “The church taught it to me.”

The church was in trouble even in the 1st century. Jesus and the apostles knew that it always would be, until Jesus returns.

 

[Matthias]

or maybe cb can just let all but under different types sub forums

There is unity and diversity in Christianity. (That doesn’t mean that all forms of Christianity are equal.) Different types of sub forums is, in my opinion, a better route to take than suppressing discussion of a topic or topics. The owner and powers that be may or may not eventually come to that conclusion. Time will tell.

In the meantime, I’m going to try to comply with the new (current) policy. I recommend that course of action to others, but will add that others should do whatever they think best in regard to the matter.

 

[Peterlag]

Everyone must be allowed to hear and weigh the evidence, then come to their own conclusions. It won’t do anyone any good to stand before Jesus and say “All my friends believed it.”

Christianity is filled with wheat and tares. The church has taught good and right things; the church has taught bad and wrong things. It won’t do anyone any good to stand before Jesus and say “The church taught it to me.”

The church was in trouble even in the 1st century. Jesus and the apostles knew that it always would be, until Jesus returns.

I hope a lot of theses guys that I have talked to over the years including the folks who have deleted me right off their Forums will someday ask the Lord why he could not have found someone to help show them the truth. I hope then they will be sent to me and that I would have a memory of them. What will probably happen is that nobody will care once they get there including me.

 

[Matthias]

I hope a lot of theses guys that I have talked to over the years including the folks who have deleted me right off their Forums will someday ask the Lord why he could not have found someone to help show them the truth. I hope then they will be sent to me and that I would have a memory of them. What will probably happen is that nobody will care once they get there including me.

I attended a United Methodist Church for a year. One day the pastor and I were talking and he asked why I had ceased being a trinitarian. He listened patiently as I briefly recounted my story. When I was finished he told me, “You have a good biblical basis for being non-trinitarian but it all comes down to whether or not we believe the church got it right.”

He was speaking about the church decisions and decrees in the 4th and 5th centuries. I’ve since come across this same sentiment expressed by other trinitarians.

I asked the Methodist pastor what he thought about the Christians who lived before those decisions and decrees were made; non-trinitarian Christians. He replied, “God only knows. It’s best to leave such matters in God’s hands.” I thought that was a very good answer, but the pastor wasn’t finished. He added, “But we know things which they didn’t know.” I think that’s a good answer, too.