Heresy or error?

[Wrangler]

People enjoy talking to people who share their point of view. Some people ONLY enjoy those conversations. They don't want to be challenged. They don't want to be questioned. They hate being disagreed with.

They treat every interaction like it should be another therapy session. They just want to be heard and affirmed. They love all the analysis, as long as it's in agreement with their comfortable perspective there on the couch. The more esoteric the conversation, the better.

Great insight.

It's part of the Generation Wuss. An article several years ago cited an actual Facebook post where a twenty-something asked for feedback on an article he wrote, then added the qualifier, "no negative feedback, please." Fewer and fewer people embrace the wisdom of iron sharpens iron.

 

[marks]

Righteous anger excuses such behavior. Even Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers.... did he not love them?

And that is the same to you. OK.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is for us.

"The wrath of man works not the righteousness of God".

Much love!

 

[Mr E]

Great insight.

It's part of the Generation Wuss. An article several years ago cited an actual Facebook post where a twenty-something asked for feedback on an article he wrote, then added the qualifier, "no negative feedback, please." Fewer and fewer people embrace the wisdom of iron sharpens iron.

But understand this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God.

 

[David H.]

And that is the same to you. OK.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is for us.

Much love!

Yes, Righteous anger is Biblical....

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. @
2 Corinthians 7:11

You see, the zeal for righteousness is always opposed by the Devil, because he does not want the church to walk in Power.... We are Told by Paul to rebuke them sharply..... What you may not see is that sometimes rebuking someone IS the Loving thing to do for them.

 

[marks]

What you may not see is that sometimes rebuking someone IS the Loving thing to do for them.

Rebuking is one thing, personal insults are quite the other. One is from love, and one is from pride/envy.

I'll not say more about it.

Much love!

 

[Adam]

Or you just missed it.

You negate his parables, why? -because you don't understand them? Start with the parable of the seeds and tell us again that he doesn't speak metaphysically about the nature of the soul.

I understand the parables, but this doesn't tell me anything about why we exist to begin with or what we will become.

A man scattered seeds - why? Does God need fruits to sustain His existence (or in other words, does God's consciousness require a continual act of creation)? Does God continuously conceive new things into existence and thereby create new concepts which were previously inconceivable, or is God ever changeless? If God is changeless then why do we exist at all? If God is constantly expanding in consciousness then are we a part of this expansion of consciousness, and if so then are we part of God right now, with power to create our own realities? What of the things that exist outside of God's consciousness - what are they? Is there an infinite space for this expansion? Or perhaps it is the opposite, that God's consciousness does not need expand and only needs to look inward - one continual I AM in endless meditation? And if so, then what happens at the end of each breath, does it start over from the beginning exactly as it was before? So do those seeds that grew or died or gave fruit or were choked, do they once again become seeds, and then do they live and die exactly as they did before. (Going back to the parable) what happens to the seeds that fell on hard soil? Can you fault something for living according to its own nature according to an origin which it had no choice in? Will they ever grow into anything or were they created only to be cursed and die - forever? And what of the seeds that do grow? What will they become after they have given all their fruit and served all purposes and fulfilled all deeds? Will they become like the sower?

The parables were told only to convey a specific principle, for example good things grow and multiply, and that has value... but if you take the parable outside of that specific lesson, it begins to break down because it wasn't the intention to explain everything in nature and metaphysics via an example, but only a particular facet of it.

 

[Wrangler]

And that is the same to you. OK.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is for us.

"The wrath of man works not the righteousness of God".

Much love!

I think you are confusing anger with wrath.

 

[David H.]

Rebuking is one thing, personal insults are quite the other. One is from love, and one is from pride/envy.

I'll not say more about it.

Do you know my motive to judge me?

As For personal insults,

The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. Paul agreed with this "Insult" When he said to rebuke them sharply.

Or how about Elijah when he mocked the gods of the false prophets.... "...Perhaps they are relieving themselves..." 1Kings 18:27 ESV

Just because we live in a culture that cries "I am offended" does not mean it should be like this in the church.

 

[David H.]

Rebuking is one thing, personal insults are quite the other. One is from love, and one is from pride/envy.

I'll not say more about it.

 

[Wrangler]

Just because we live in a culture that cries "I am offended" does not mean it should be like this in the church.

Sadly, it does. In another thread I wrote repeatedly about cultural appropriation. The people who go to church remain immersed in the culture from which they came.

The female, now retired pastor of my church gave a sermon bemoaning the wisdom of 'sticks and stones.' I sent her an email taking her to task about emotional responsibility and infantilizing of adults. Instead, we should raise people with the moral fortitude to not give people the power to 'hurt' them by using words.

 

[Mr E]

I understand the parables, but this doesn't tell me anything about why we exist to begin with or what we will become.

A man scattered seeds - why? Does God need fruits to sustain His existence (or in other words, does God's consciousness require a continual act of creation)? Does God continuously conceive new things into existence and thereby create new concepts which were previously inconceivable, or is God ever changeless? If God is changeless then why do we exist at all? If God is constantly expanding in consciousness then are we a part of this expansion of consciousness, and if so then are we part of God right now, with power to create our own realities? What of the things that exist outside of God's consciousness - what are they? Is there an infinite space for this expansion? Or perhaps it is the opposite, that God's consciousness does not need expand and only needs to look inward - one continual I AM in endless meditation? And if so, then what happens at the end of each breath, does it start over from the beginning exactly as it was before? So do those seeds that grew or died or gave fruit or were choked, do they once again become seeds, and then do they live and die exactly as they did before. (Going back to the parable) what happens to the seeds that fell on hard soil? Can you fault something for living according to its own nature according to an origin which it had no choice in? Will they ever grow into anything or were they created only to be cursed and die - forever? And what of the seeds that do grow? What will they become after they have given all their fruit and served all purposes and fulfilled all deeds? Will they become like the sower?

The parables were told only to convey a specific principle, for example good things grow and multiply, and that has value... but if you take the parable outside of that specific lesson, it begins to break down because it wasn't the intention to explain everything in nature and metaphysics via an example, but only a particular facet of it.

Great questions!

He explained this one parable in particular, with precision. He shared a principle that must be employed to understand all parables.

In answer to some of you questions-- Matthew 13- the parable of the seeds, or if you prefer Luke 8- the parable of the sower tell the creation story.

 

[David H.]

The people who go to church remain immersed in the culture from which they came.

That Goes exactly to the point of what some of us are saying here. Because of the Watered-down Gospel, being separate (Holy, Saintly) From the world does not occur in the church anymore for the large part. We are in the world, But not of the world. This shows in the "theatrics" in the modern worship service, and the feel-good preaching that does not convict.

 

[Wrangler]

The church has been feminized, along with the rest of society.

Janet McKenzie

Janet McKenzie won the Nathional Catholic Reporter's Jesus of the Millennium contest with her painting

janetmckenzie.com

God as a Black woman: The Afro-Cuban painter who reimagined the depiction of God

Religious sensitivity has always been a difficult issue to navigate, even in the contemporary world. When it comes to the depiction of God, the whitewashing of the Almighty is not only historically false in the case of Jesus but creates an implicit cultural and historical bias in favour of one race.

thisisafrica.me

 

[Mr E]

The church has been feminized, along with the rest of society.

Janet McKenzie

Janet McKenzie won the Nathional Catholic Reporter's Jesus of the Millennium contest with her painting

janetmckenzie.com

God as a Black woman: The Afro-Cuban painter who reimagined the depiction of God

Religious sensitivity has always been a difficult issue to navigate, even in the contemporary world. When it comes to the depiction of God, the whitewashing of the Almighty is not only historically false in the case of Jesus but creates an implicit cultural and historical bias in favour of one race.

thisisafrica.me

View attachment 28105

It follows your ‘iron sharpens iron’ allusion.

If we were to treat theology more like hockey and less like a tea party or sewing circle, the Church universal would be a better place.

I hate using sports analogies, but good ideas thrive in a competitive environment. The weak fall away. Men can do battle (compete) with one another fiercely, yet without animus and without concern for an opponents ‘feelings.’

 

[Wrangler]

It follows your ‘iron sharpens iron’ allusion.

If we were to treat theology more like hockey and less like a tea party or sewing circle, the Church universal would be a better place.

I hate using sports analogies, but good ideas thrive in a competitive environment. The weak fall away. Men can do battle (compete) with one another fiercely, yet without animus and without concern for an opponents ‘feelings.’

Experience shows people don't want freedom or the responsibility that goes along with it. Many people don't want to be held accountable. They lament, 'why do all these bad things keep happening to me?" But don't want to look at their own complicity.

Pastors have said when they call out sin in their flock, their flock stops attending. How are you doing? Great!

 

[Episkopos]

Experience shows people don't want freedom or the responsibility that goes along with it. Many people don't want to be held accountable. They lament, 'why do all these bad things keep happening to me?" But don't want to look at their own complicity.

Pastors have said when the call out sin in their flock, their flock stops attending. How are you doing? Great!

It begs the question...how did the churches fill up with selfish egotistical religious people? God is under NO obligation to extend His promises to those who are not bearing eternal fruit.

The Jews were rejected as a people for not bearing fruit. And the Gentiles will undergo the same rejection...for the most part. A remnant of each will be spared.

But who can discern the sign of the times?

 

[marks]

Sadly, it does. In another thread I wrote repeatedly about cultural appropriation. The people who go to church remain immersed in the culture from which they came.

The female, now retired pastor of my church gave a sermon bemoaning the wisdom of 'sticks and stones.' I sent her an email taking her to task about emotional responsibility and infantilizing of adults. Instead, we should raise people with the moral fortitude to not give people the power to 'hurt' them by using words.

The idea of "speaking the truth in love" is something I fear people actually use as an excuse to do exactly opposite what the verse is instructing us.

You know, That should be it's own thread.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

It begs the question...how did the churches fill up with selfish egotistical religious people?

Question answered in previous post, #369.

View attachment 28104

 

[Wrangler]

The idea of "speaking the truth in love" is something I fear people actually use as an excuse to do exactly opposite what the verse is instructing us

Hmmm. I don't know. I think it is THEN people respond by putting up various deflection mechanisms. Wasn't Jesus "speaking the truth in love" when he flipped over tables and whipped people?

 

[Episkopos]

People enjoy talking to people who share their point of view. Some people ONLY enjoy those conversations. They don't want to be challenged. They don't want to be questioned. They hate being disagreed with.

They treat every interaction like it should be another therapy session. They just want to be heard and affirmed. They love all the analysis, as long as it's in agreement with their comfortable perspective there on the couch. The more esoteric the conversation, the better. Analysis takes the prominent position, while change becomes an afterthought. No need to change when I can come back next week and talk more about the need to change.

I bought @Episkopos book-- 'The Sum of All Possibilities in Christ' --- and just started reading it. I can see why it/he appeals to you in particular. It's psycho-analysis disguised as theology. With the little bit of personal history that you've shared, I can see it's right up your alley.

Having said that- I like the overall direction he's going in, at least at the beginning of the book (which is all I've read so far). He hints at things that are true while beating around the bush they grow on.

First. Thank you for getting the book. My hands were tied at the beginning of the book since I had to define difficult to comprehend things that are very specific before being able to put things together. A lot of clarification was required to counter-the many false presumptions that come from an unbalanced reading of the bible. So I was limited in my terminology at first. The book begins as a narrative...and then moves into more progressive revelation and explanation on how everything fits together. It is not comprehensive...but a template into which deeper studies can be made. There is however, enough there to get the idea of God's ways in general and God's way in Christ in particular.

Please comment further as you finish the book.

Peace