Atheism and Christianity

[amigo de christo]

Not giving any false hope to anyone here. What I’m trying to do is warn against judging unbelievers.

Judging . Telling folks that all folks need to BELIEVE in JESUS to be saved is not condemnation against any .
Allowing them to believe if they have love and do good works that they dont have to believe in JESUS , NOW THAT IS CONDEMNATION
against them . ME is a STICKLER to the FACT that ONE Must believe in CHRIST JESUS .
That in fact , one must believe that GOD has rose HIM from the dead
and must confess HIM by mouth in order to be saved .
FOr with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth CONFESSING HIM unto salvation .
THERE simply is no other plan of salvation . LETS GET TO IT NOW . lets preach JESUS and HIM CRUCIFIED and every
word HE ever said to all that has breath .

 

[amigo de christo]

God didnt choose to save the world through this false all inclusive lie , nor with a false ideal that somehow
one can love they way to heaven and deny JESUS .
GOD chose to save the world HOW , by the PREACHING OF the GOSPEL . paul was right , todays men who say otherwise
are the liars . AND let none who name the name of CHRIST JESUS follow their false love , for it ends in hells fire .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh my gosh. Okay. Carry on. And on.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh my gosh. Okay. Carry on. And on.

ITS ALL JOY to POINT ONLY to CHRIST JESUS . My ol soul never grows weary of POINTING TO HE ALONE .
So let all that draws breath praise and thank and dance a jig o praise unto the GLORIOUS LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

and ON and ON i go . POINTING ONLY TO CHRIST JESUS , not to men , not to false gods and false religoins
BUT TO JESUS ALONE as the ONLY means whereby one can be saved .
This ol song never gets old , it just JOYS ME OL HEART more and more to POINT TO HE ALONE .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

if we read on we see this means those who are born again

I disagree with that (Not that I want to hear you go on shouting and shouting any more) AND the entire passage BEGINS with this: You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

When read along WITH the end of the previous passage, it’s pretty clear who Paul is saying not to judge.
Paul is encouraging more humility than the church is even capable of, given the bad doctrines.

 

[ScottA]

An atheist who keeps to the commandments of God, but doesn't believe in Christ. Can such person make heaven

Not to be misunderstood-- Being wrong about God is not the final say. It is God who has the final say, and the ankles do not hear as well as the shoulders.

Seek God, and He will guide your steps.

 

[bbyrd009]

I did some research on that verse about God hating Esau...in the context of what Malachi was saying it means Jacob He loved (blessed and multiplied his blessings and chose him to be the lineage which Jesus would come from. He changed Jacob’s name to Israel). Esau He hated (rejected because he never truly understood the heart and mind of God and became bitter that Jacob received Abraham's inheritance instead of him...as was the custom the firstborn is the one who receives the inheritance.)
Quote from GotQuestions:
the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose.

so go with that then, but i would keep an open mind
i say this bc you have reached a conclusion, based upon a perspective, and maybe there are other valid perspectives; there might be several lessons in Esau iow. i suggest that Esau was hated for a specific reason, bc he did a specific thing…which is not meant to discount your perspective, or at least not most of it

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The pronouncement of the word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi:

“I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was Esau not Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and given his inheritance to the jackals of the wilderness.” Though Edom says, “We have been beaten down, but we will return and build up the ruins”; this is what the Lord of armies says: “They may build, but I will tear down; and people will call them the territory of wickedness, and the people with whom the Lord is indignant forever.” And your eyes will see this, and you will say, “The Lord be exalted beyond the border of Israel!”

 

[Enoch111]

An atheist who keeps to the commandments of God, but doesn't believe in Christ. Can such person make heaven

Very doubtful that he "keeps the commandments", since he does not even believe there is a God.

 

[Space_Karen]

1. An atheist who follows the commandments and teachings of God.
2. A christian who professes to believe in God with their mouth, but does the opposite of God's commandments and teachings.

Of above options, which is closer to being a believer?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

1. An atheist who follows the commandments and teachings of God.
2. A christian who professes to believe in God with their mouth, but does the opposite of God's commandments and teachings.

Of above options, which is closer to being a believer?

The first son said yes but didn’t do.
The second son said no but DID do.
Which one obeyed his father?

 

[Episkopos]

An atheist who keeps to the commandments of God, but doesn't believe in Christ. Can such person make heaven

Can a decent person inherit eternal life? Of course. God is merciful. No one can say who will be forgiven and who is condemned. We should never make assumptions one way or another. A righteous person doesn't consider themselves to be righteous. So then humility is key. But someone who rejects Christ outright cannot be justified...since doing so is not the righteous thing to do.

There are atheists who live AS IF there is a God, but have no particular faith concerning Him. Jordan Peterson champions this view. There is an honesty to it. But it is limited in what it can do for the person long term.

We are all in transition, one way or the other. Its best not to judge prematurely where our paths will end.

 

[Episkopos]

Keeping the commandments or being a 'nice' person isn't enough, Jesus is the only way. So an atheist would need to repent of sin and unbelief and accept Jesus.

And yet Peter says...

But in every nation he that fears him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:35

Is Peter talking about our accepting Christ or God accepting us?

 

[Episkopos]

When the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he must do to INHERIT salvation...Jesus answered him...obey the commandments.

I think there is a great confusion between being saved from our sins NOW (by faith OF Jesus Christ)...and inheriting eternal life with the meek and poor of this world.

 

[David H.]

An atheist who keeps to the commandments of God, but doesn't believe in Christ. Can such person make heaven

This question is an impossibility. You cannot be an atheist and love the LORD your God with all your heart, while denying his existence.

 

[Nancy]

All go to the same place
No one has ever gone up to heaven But He WHo came down from it, the son of man
The kingdom of heaven is within

but imo as to them "making" heaven; sure, why not?
Jesus clowned the religious of His day, and praised the atheist (Samaritan), and "God had hated" Esau, those you chose to pose your question to

Hi Mark,
Why would you say a Samaritan was an atheist? They were still Hebrews who worshipped the same God as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The other Jews hated them because they were of mixed blood...I believe but...atheist's?

 

[Nancy]

I did some research on that verse about God hating Esau...in the context of what Malachi was saying it means Jacob He loved (blessed and multiplied his blessings and chose him to be the lineage which Jesus would come from. He changed Jacob’s name to Israel). Esau He hated (rejected because he never truly understood the heart and mind of God and became bitter that Jacob received Abraham's inheritance instead of him...as was the custom the firstborn is the one who receives the inheritance.)
Quote from GotQuestions:
the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose.

I've read one time where the word "hated" could be replaced with God "preferred" Jacob over Esau. That sounds more in line with Gods character...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Can a decent person inherit eternal life? Of course. God is merciful. No one can say who will be forgiven and who is condemned. We should never make assumptions one way or another. A righteous person doesn't consider themselves to be righteous. So then humility is key. But someone who rejects Christ outright cannot be justified...since doing so is not the righteous thing to do.

There are atheists who live AS IF there is a God, but have no particular faith concerning Him. Jordan Peterson champions this view. There is an honesty to it. But it is limited in what it can do for the person long term.

We are all in transition, one way or the other. Its best not to judge prematurely where our paths will end.

Have you listened to Jordan lately? For about a year now, he has changed a lot.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This question is an impossibility. You cannot be an atheist and love the LORD your God with all your heart, while denying his existence.

Oh…not so fast!
You are saying a man cannot be holy if he thinks God doesn’t exist. That’s true.
The op wasn’t really talking about that, was he? I think he was thinking more of men he had seen who were gentle, meek, kind to others, caring of others, doing no harm to others, following their conscience, lamenting injustice.

The mistake our leaders and doctrines have led us to is to condemn such a man, which is to make sad who God didn’t want to be sad, and to not condemn ourselves when we may not be even half as good to others, but to rather call ourselves more righteous than that man (by proxy no less!)