Is knowing what death is a comfort?

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rwb

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I gather you don't know what the time of the gentiles is Rw.

It comes from a prophecy we see in Daniel chapter 4 with a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about a tree that was chopped down. This tree represented God's rulership, and those whom He allowed to sit on His throne. Daniel said to Nebuchadnezzar: Da 4:22 it is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong and added: Da 4:25 that thou shalt be driven from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and thou shalt be made to eat grass as oxen, and shalt be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee; till thou know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. That is exactly what happened as you likely realize.

Bob, Daniel explains the dream for Nebuchadnezzar. The chopped down tree, according to Daniel represented King Nebuchadnezzar, whose Kingdom had become so powerful that the king saw himself to be as a god. Therefore, the God of heaven would take the kingdom from him and for seven years he would become as a mad man, with the beasts eating grass of the field for seven years. Yes, this prophetic word is written in history and came to pass exactly as Daniel said it would.

The living would know "that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men" was spoken because the worship of many gods was common. The kingdom was taken from Nebuchadnezzar to prove to both him and the people there is only one God for and by whom all things exist, and who rules in the kingdom of men. He supposed that men such as himself, kings and princes, ruled, and that the gods would help or try to frustrate these earthly rulers according to treatment which they themselves received. Nebuchadnezzar had never conceived such a thought, that while man proposes God disposes of earthly things.

Jesus is seated on His throne in heaven, ruling over the Kingdom of God in heaven, and the earth. He rules over all who enter into His Kingdom according to grace through faith, with a rod of iron. The Lord is the ruler over His people.

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9-10 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

While you're still waiting for Christ to sit on His throne and rule over the Kingdom of God from heaven, you do not understand that Christ has been sitting on His throne in heaven, and ruling over His Kingdom since He ascended there after His resurrection.

When read in context we find Ezekiel's prophetic words are directed to Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. The whole is a vision, in which life and action is conveyed by this manner of describing the course of future events as actually taking place before the eyes of his hearers. The two ways "come forth out of one land;" their starting-point is the same. Babylon, and they diverge towards different destinations. Because of his wickedness in seeking divination for Jerusalem, the day for the profane and wicked prince of Israel, and all his sins would come to an end when both the diadem (mitre) of the High-Priest would be removed, and the crown from King Nebuchadnezzar. The conditions that follow the overthrow would not be permanent but would not change until the coming of Christ.

Ezekiel 21:18-27 (KJV) The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver. At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

Ellicott's Bible Commentary for English Readers: Until he come whose right it is.—"This is generally acknowledged as a reference to Ge 49:10, "until Shiloh come" even by those who reject the interpretation of Shiloh as meaning "he to whom it belongs." The promise here made refers plainly both to the priestly and to the royal prerogatives, and a still more distinct foretelling of the union of both in the Messiah may be found in Zec 6:12-13. In Him, and in Him alone, will all this confusion and uncertainty come to an end; for, as Ezekiel's contemporary declared, "His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed" (Da 7:14).

Fulfillment of the prophecy for the coming of the rightful Heir to the throne did not begin when Zedekiah was removed, it began with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem from three Emperors; Cyrus - 538 BC; Darius - 520 BC; and Artaxerxes 457 BC. Although there is much disagreement about the time from each Emperor began the prophecy that would be fulfilled with the advent of Christ, the prophet Ezra indicates that all three Emperors begin the prophecy that would be fulfilled through Christ. There was a single decree repeated, and the time for the beginning to restore and rebuild Jerusalem would be fulfilled with the advent of Christ, began with the decree re-issued by Artaxerxes.

This was eye opening understanding came from our own fellow poster Christian Gedge through his work entitled 'The Atonement Clock' - by Christian Gedge and Published by Five Loaves and Two Fishes.

Ezra 6:14 (KJV) And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

You have not discerned from Revelation, but rather attempt to force unbiblical doctrine into the text. Your understanding of eschatology is built from imagination, and cannot be biblically proven. The Word of the Lord for Israel's wilderness wondering for 40 years came to pass, one year for each day because the people lacked faith to believe God would deliver them from all their enemies.

Numbers 14:34 (KJV) After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
 

rwb

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Yes sir, the Israel of God is made up exclusively of born again Christians. And they are the "church" and are called many things, among them the bride of Christ. They go to heaven sir.

So obviously this will be new to you, perhaps you have read John 10:16 when he was referring to those born again flock, he stated he had sheep which were not of that fold. And likely you are familiar with Jesus words on the sermon of the mount where he quoted Ps 37:11, 29 at Mat 5:5. God did not fail sir, it was not His intent for people to live on earth and die and go to heaven. With the sin of Adam, He had to make a detour to get it done, but that is exactly what He has done. Jesus did make a covenant with his faithful apostles for a Kingdom, they would serve as kings and priests in the Kingdom of God with him. It was not just limited to them however, it would encompass all born again Christians sir. They leave the earth for that reason. They will be our Kings and Priests under the King Jesus to rule over what? The earth RW. You have prayed for that Kingdom to come, and we are very near to it's coming sir. When you asked for it to come, what did you think you were asking for? If it is not coming, and all Christians are going to heaven, then why does satan have to be removed from the earth and bound for 1k yrs if it is not coming here? When satan is loosened after that millennium, where is he roaming, and why is people here? God never changes, nor did He change His mind about the earth either, we will just like the Bible says, inherit the earth and dwell upon it forever.

Bob, you seem to believe that Adam & Eve's sin caught God by surprise. That God had to come up with plan B because His plan A failed? That totally obliterates the Sovereign Providence of God. If sin of man forced God to go to plan B as you suppose, He would not have provided a way for mankind to be redeemed, and eternally saved through Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. You say God did not fail, then imply He did indeed fail because He had to "make a detour to get it done"! That is absurd!

Men don't go to heaven! The living (spirit) souls of men who die in faith do. I bracketed (spirit) because life comes from the spirit in man. If after death the spirit of faithful men returns to God, it is as spirit soul. IOW the spirit of men/women of faith returns to God with life, therefore a living soul.

Men and women of faith live and reign with Christ in TIME. Even if we don't agree on when a thousand years begins and ends, we must agree it equates to TIME, which is given to this earth. Because time does not exist in eternity which heaven is, and is the eternal dwelling place of God. When faithful spiritual souls go to heaven after death not to rule and reign with Christ from heaven, but for God to keep our eternal spirit alive until our spirit is reunited with our new immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh we will become when the last trump sounds. The faithful return alive a living spiritual soul because in TIME (this life) before dying we lived and reigned with Christ. Those martyred saints in John's vision were faithful unto death. Which is what all believers are called to be.

When we pray thy Kingdom come, we are not praying for His Kingdom to come to this earth. Because Christ has said that His Kingdom is not of this world, cannot be seen, or known, because His Kingdom is within believers. For that reason, we pray not that thy Kingdom come to this earth, but that thy will be done on earth as it is done in heaven. As we do the will of God on earth as do His angels in heaven, the Kingdom of God in heaven will be complete, as our faithful obedience to doing His will on earth by proclaiming His Gospel will build and complete His spiritual Kingdom that is now in heaven.

Satan was bound so that people in every Gentile nation of the earth, would hear the Gospel, and those who hear and by grace through faith, believe in Christ are no longer deceived by fear of death that Satan was once able to hold them in. Satan was bound through the cross and resurrection which proved Christ defeated death, and in doing so He bound Satan by destroying his power of death. All who believe are no longer in bondage to fear of death, knowing that through Christ their life is eternal, and not even physical death can keep them from having life through Him.

Hebrews 2:14-15 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Satan will only be loosened for a "little season" after the thousand years of TIME for this earth shall be no more. During his "little season" Satan gathers together Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristian) to surround the saints still alive on this earth during this time. But instead of destroying what remains of the Church on earth, the saints still alive will be physically resurrected to immortality and incorruptible as will the spirits of the faithful in heaven who return with Christ. Then fire of God will come down from heaven and everything still alive on this earth will be utterly burned up. (1Th 4:14-17; 1Cor 15:51-58; Rev 10:5-7)

The earth believers shall inherit will not be this dying, sin-cursed earth destined to destruction. Believers shall inherit the new earth after this heaven and earth have passed away. (Rev 21:1-4)
 

rwb

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Amen Taken! So who really is one siding with if they choose not to stand on Jehovah's side. I agree that the broad road represents all those other gods, but most of them really don't exist, so when those on the broad road get cast into the lake of fire, which god was that lake created for sir? Mat 25:41

The lake of fire is also the fate for those whose names are not recorded in the Book of Life.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

We get a better understanding of the words Christ spoke when we understand 'angels' interpreted 'messengers'. Then according to the context and corresponding verses we can determine whether 'angel' is human or spirit.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

ANGELS - ἄγγελος ángelos, ang'-el-os - from ἀγγέλλω angéllō (probably derived from G71; compare G34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:—angel, messenger.
 

ElieG12

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To those who talk so much about a place where God tortures the soul of human beings, I would ask: how many of your loved ones do you think are there, being tortured by your God right now? :confused:
 

Robert Gwin

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The lake of fire was created by the creator; God,
for ...
Beast...earthly Nations, Earthly government systems.
False Prophet...anti-God Head preacher over other anti-God speakers.
Devil...Spirit deceivers Against God.
Death...that which is void of life.
Hell....a place of Separation From God.
Them...Whosoever...Any earthling, Advocate or Supporter or Worshiper of;
corrupt nations, corrupt governance, corrupt preaching, Devil spirits...and void of life.

Rev 19:
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
These both (Beast and False Prophet) were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and (deceiving devil ) shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The only remaining “Alive forever thing” in the lake of fire; to be forever separated from God, to be tormented day and night for ever and ever....IS THAT which HAS forever life....IS that which Never sleeps/rests...
IS Devil Spirits.
Everything else cast into the lake of fire IS utterly destroyed, consumed by fire and forgotten.

Glory to God,
Taken
To be honest Taken, it was created when Adam sinned. The lake of fire simply signifies death.
 

Robert Gwin

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Bob, Daniel explains the dream for Nebuchadnezzar. The chopped down tree, according to Daniel represented King Nebuchadnezzar, whose Kingdom had become so powerful that the king saw himself to be as a god. Therefore, the God of heaven would take the kingdom from him and for seven years he would become as a mad man, with the beasts eating grass of the field for seven years. Yes, this prophetic word is written in history and came to pass exactly as Daniel said it would.

The living would know "that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men" was spoken because the worship of many gods was common. The kingdom was taken from Nebuchadnezzar to prove to both him and the people there is only one God for and by whom all things exist, and who rules in the kingdom of men. He supposed that men such as himself, kings and princes, ruled, and that the gods would help or try to frustrate these earthly rulers according to treatment which they themselves received. Nebuchadnezzar had never conceived such a thought, that while man proposes God disposes of earthly things.

Jesus is seated on His throne in heaven, ruling over the Kingdom of God in heaven, and the earth. He rules over all who enter into His Kingdom according to grace through faith, with a rod of iron. The Lord is the ruler over His people.

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9-10 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

While you're still waiting for Christ to sit on His throne and rule over the Kingdom of God from heaven, you do not understand that Christ has been sitting on His throne in heaven, and ruling over His Kingdom since He ascended there after His resurrection.

When read in context we find Ezekiel's prophetic words are directed to Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. The whole is a vision, in which life and action is conveyed by this manner of describing the course of future events as actually taking place before the eyes of his hearers. The two ways "come forth out of one land;" their starting-point is the same. Babylon, and they diverge towards different destinations. Because of his wickedness in seeking divination for Jerusalem, the day for the profane and wicked prince of Israel, and all his sins would come to an end when both the diadem (mitre) of the High-Priest would be removed, and the crown from King Nebuchadnezzar. The conditions that follow the overthrow would not be permanent but would not change until the coming of Christ.

Ezekiel 21:18-27 (KJV) The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver. At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

Ellicott's Bible Commentary for English Readers: Until he come whose right it is.—"This is generally acknowledged as a reference to Ge 49:10, "until Shiloh come" even by those who reject the interpretation of Shiloh as meaning "he to whom it belongs." The promise here made refers plainly both to the priestly and to the royal prerogatives, and a still more distinct foretelling of the union of both in the Messiah may be found in Zec 6:12-13. In Him, and in Him alone, will all this confusion and uncertainty come to an end; for, as Ezekiel's contemporary declared, "His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed" (Da 7:14).

Fulfillment of the prophecy for the coming of the rightful Heir to the throne did not begin when Zedekiah was removed, it began with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem from three Emperors; Cyrus - 538 BC; Darius - 520 BC; and Artaxerxes 457 BC. Although there is much disagreement about the time from each Emperor began the prophecy that would be fulfilled with the advent of Christ, the prophet Ezra indicates that all three Emperors begin the prophecy that would be fulfilled through Christ. There was a single decree repeated, and the time for the beginning to restore and rebuild Jerusalem would be fulfilled with the advent of Christ, began with the decree re-issued by Artaxerxes.

This was eye opening understanding came from our own fellow poster Christian Gedge through his work entitled 'The Atonement Clock' - by Christian Gedge and Published by Five Loaves and Two Fishes.

Ezra 6:14 (KJV) And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

You have not discerned from Revelation, but rather attempt to force unbiblical doctrine into the text. Your understanding of eschatology is built from imagination, and cannot be biblically proven. The Word of the Lord for Israel's wilderness wondering for 40 years came to pass, one year for each day because the people lacked faith to believe God would deliver them from all their enemies.

Numbers 14:34 (KJV) After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
From your many words I discerned that we agree much on the prophecy, about the who, but not about the when, correct?
 

Taken

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To be honest Taken, it was created when Adam sinned. The lake of fire simply signifies death.
I disagree.

Gen 1:
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Robert Gwin

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Bob, you seem to believe that Adam & Eve's sin caught God by surprise. That God had to come up with plan B because His plan A failed? That totally obliterates the Sovereign Providence of God. If sin of man forced God to go to plan B as you suppose, He would not have provided a way for mankind to be redeemed, and eternally saved through Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. You say God did not fail, then imply He did indeed fail because He had to "make a detour to get it done"! That is absurd!

Men don't go to heaven! The living (spirit) souls of men who die in faith do. I bracketed (spirit) because life comes from the spirit in man. If after death the spirit of faithful men returns to God, it is as spirit soul. IOW the spirit of men/women of faith returns to God with life, therefore a living soul.

Men and women of faith live and reign with Christ in TIME. Even if we don't agree on when a thousand years begins and ends, we must agree it equates to TIME, which is given to this earth. Because time does not exist in eternity which heaven is, and is the eternal dwelling place of God. When faithful spiritual souls go to heaven after death not to rule and reign with Christ from heaven, but for God to keep our eternal spirit alive until our spirit is reunited with our new immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh we will become when the last trump sounds. The faithful return alive a living spiritual soul because in TIME (this life) before dying we lived and reigned with Christ. Those martyred saints in John's vision were faithful unto death. Which is what all believers are called to be.

When we pray thy Kingdom come, we are not praying for His Kingdom to come to this earth. Because Christ has said that His Kingdom is not of this world, cannot be seen, or known, because His Kingdom is within believers. For that reason, we pray not that thy Kingdom come to this earth, but that thy will be done on earth as it is done in heaven. As we do the will of God on earth as do His angels in heaven, the Kingdom of God in heaven will be complete, as our faithful obedience to doing His will on earth by proclaiming His Gospel will build and complete His spiritual Kingdom that is now in heaven.

Satan was bound so that people in every Gentile nation of the earth, would hear the Gospel, and those who hear and by grace through faith, believe in Christ are no longer deceived by fear of death that Satan was once able to hold them in. Satan was bound through the cross and resurrection which proved Christ defeated death, and in doing so He bound Satan by destroying his power of death. All who believe are no longer in bondage to fear of death, knowing that through Christ their life is eternal, and not even physical death can keep them from having life through Him.

Hebrews 2:14-15 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Satan will only be loosened for a "little season" after the thousand years of TIME for this earth shall be no more. During his "little season" Satan gathers together Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristian) to surround the saints still alive on this earth during this time. But instead of destroying what remains of the Church on earth, the saints still alive will be physically resurrected to immortality and incorruptible as will the spirits of the faithful in heaven who return with Christ. Then fire of God will come down from heaven and everything still alive on this earth will be utterly burned up. (1Th 4:14-17; 1Cor 15:51-58; Rev 10:5-7)

The earth believers shall inherit will not be this dying, sin-cursed earth destined to destruction. Believers shall inherit the new earth after this heaven and earth have passed away. (Rev 21:1-4)
Bob, you seem to believe that Adam & Eve's sin caught God by surprise.
I believe He knew in advance Rw, and then pronounced plan b. I see the genius in plan B, would you have handled it differently?
When we pray thy Kingdom come, we are not praying for His Kingdom to come to this earth.
Finish the verse sir.
Then fire of God will come down from heaven and everything still alive on this earth will be utterly burned up.
Ecc1:4
The earth believers shall inherit will not be this dying, sin-cursed earth destined to destruction. Believers shall inherit the new earth after this heaven and earth have passed away. (Rev 21:1-4)
We agree on this being here on the earth, but most of us will not return to the earth, we will be resurrected to it sir.
 

Robert Gwin

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I disagree.

Gen 1:
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Glory to God,
Taken
You believe the lake of fire was created Taken, and prior to the sin of Adam?

You know that the lake of fire occurs twice in the Bible sir, and each time God chose to define it, likely because of large numbers understanding it the way you do. What does God say the lake of fire is Taken?
 

Taken

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You believe the lake of fire was created Taken, and prior to the sin of Adam?

You know that the lake of fire occurs twice in the Bible sir, and each time God chose to define it, likely because of large numbers understanding it the way you do. What does God say the lake of fire is Taken?
The lake of fire is mentioned in 4 Scriptural passages.

Rev 19:
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

* The lake of fire is a PLACE of Containment...Entering is Effected By the Authority and Power of God, Casting INTO the Lake of Fire that which is in opposition to and of God...
Death, Wicked Systems, Evil Beings ...
* And By Gods Authority And Power Once a Thing IS cast into the Lake of Fire...there IS NO Opportunity For the thing to Ever be Released.
 

rwb

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I believe He knew in advance Rw, and then pronounced plan b. I see the genius in plan B, would you have handled it differently?

Finish the verse sir.

Ecc1:4

We agree on this being here on the earth, but most of us will not return to the earth, we will be resurrected to it sir.

The plan of God from the foundation of the world is one plan ordained in heaven before creation. The plan ordained in heaven has always been the Covenant of Redemption through the blood of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world. You attempt to make God into man who knows not the future, therefore ever changing His mind. I see the Sovereignty and Providence of Almighty God from the plan He ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world.

You imagine God lacked the power to fulfill His plan ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world because Satan deceived humans and brought sin and death through sin into God's creation. That shows you have no understanding of the all encompassing power of the Almighty God, the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. No power or heaven or earth could ever prevent God from doing that which is ordained before creation.

Acts 15:18 (KJV) Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Malachi 3:6 (KJV) For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Numbers 23:19 (KJV) God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Isaiah 46:9-10 (KJV) Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isaiah 46:11 (KJV)
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Matthew 25:34 (KJV)
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Hebrews 4:3 (KJV) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV)
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We pray "Thy Kingdom come"...."Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Notice Christ does not say we are to pray Thy Kingdom come to this earth, but that Thy will be done on this earth in the same way it is done in heaven.

The earth will indeed abide forever as it shall be made a new heaven and new earth after, "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 

Robert Gwin

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The lake of fire is mentioned in 4 Scriptural passages.

Rev 19:
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

* The lake of fire is a PLACE of Containment...Entering is Effected By the Authority and Power of God, Casting INTO the Lake of Fire that which is in opposition to and of God...
Death, Wicked Systems, Evil Beings ...
* And By Gods Authority And Power Once a Thing IS cast into the Lake of Fire...there IS NO Opportunity For the thing to Ever be Released.
Thanks Taken, you did bring out one in Rev 19 I overlooked for sure, those verses you posted from Rev 20, was one of what I was referring to, the other one was Rev 21:8. Another mistake I made was that the one in chap 19 did not define what it is. I thought there was only two places where the lake of fire was discussed, and both times He identified what it was. You have taught me something today Taken.
 
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Robert Gwin

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The plan of God from the foundation of the world is one plan ordained in heaven before creation. The plan ordained in heaven has always been the Covenant of Redemption through the blood of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world. You attempt to make God into man who knows not the future, therefore ever changing His mind. I see the Sovereignty and Providence of Almighty God from the plan He ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world.

You imagine God lacked the power to fulfill His plan ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world because Satan deceived humans and brought sin and death through sin into God's creation. That shows you have no understanding of the all encompassing power of the Almighty God, the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. No power or heaven or earth could ever prevent God from doing that which is ordained before creation.

Acts 15:18 (KJV) Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Malachi 3:6 (KJV) For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Numbers 23:19 (KJV) God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Isaiah 46:9-10 (KJV) Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isaiah 46:11 (KJV)
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Matthew 25:34 (KJV)
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Hebrews 4:3 (KJV) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV)
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We pray "Thy Kingdom come"...."Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Notice Christ does not say we are to pray Thy Kingdom come to this earth, but that Thy will be done on this earth in the same way it is done in heaven.

The earth will indeed abide forever as it shall be made a new heaven and new earth after, "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
You imagine God lacked the power to fulfill His plan ordained in heaven from the foundation of the world because Satan deceived humans and brought sin and death through sin into God's creation.
Like I said, I believe Jehovah selected the best way Rw.
We pray "Thy Kingdom come"...."Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Notice Christ does not say we are to pray Thy Kingdom come to this earth, but that Thy will be done on this earth in the same way it is done in heaven.
The very verse identified it as coming to the earth sir, where do you think it is going?
Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Since the earth abideth forever Ec 1:4, what is the new earth Rw? I will give you a hint, the new heavens are already established. It will be a ways off yet for the new earth to be finalized, but things will be quite different in the near future.
 

rwb

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The very verse identified it as coming to the earth sir, where do you think it is going?

No the verse does not! We pray thy will be done in earth, not that His kingdom come to this earth.

Matthew 6:10 (KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Luke 11:2 (KJV)
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Here is a depiction of His Kingdom coming down from heaven as the holy city, new Jerusalem AFTER this heaven and earth have passed away. Heavenly Jerusalem is where believers spiritually go, and where believers will come down to the new earth with Christ from.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:2-5 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 

Taken

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Thanks Taken, you did bring out one in Rev 19 I overlooked for sure, those verses you posted from Rev 20, was one of what I was referring to, the other one was Rev 21:8. Another mistake I made was that the one in chap 19 did not define what it is. I thought there was only two places where the lake of fire was discussed, and both times He identified what it was. You have taught me something today Taken.

Gods Word Taught you. I pointed, you exercised your Freewill to verify what I pointed to, and we both did a Works glorifying to God...

That’s what a mans works is all about...Glorifying God.

Did you know, Every works a man does to glorify God...is a “debt” God takes upon Himself?
And God “repays” His “Debts”....with treasures He stores up in heaven...
And shall dole out those treasures, in a manner Received unto the man, called a “Reward”....when? When the Lord returns.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matt 6:
[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Matt 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

God bless you brother,
Taken
 

rwb

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Since the earth abideth forever Ec 1:4, what is the new earth Rw? I will give you a hint, the new heavens are already established. It will be a ways off yet for the new earth to be finalized, but things will be quite different in the near future.

Reconcile your opinions with the verses I've already shown you of where, what, when and how the new heaven and new earth shall be when the Lord returns the second time. Until you can do that, you force contradiction into God's Word.
 

Robert Gwin

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No the verse does not! We pray thy will be done in earth, not that His kingdom come to this earth.

Matthew 6:10 (KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Luke 11:2 (KJV)
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Here is a depiction of His Kingdom coming down from heaven as the holy city, new Jerusalem AFTER this heaven and earth have passed away. Heavenly Jerusalem is where believers spiritually go, and where believers will come down to the new earth with Christ from.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 21:1 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:2-5 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Yes sir, on earth as it is in heaven, pretty much settles it Rw, I believe that the Bible does not contradict, and the earth is stated as abiding forever. Remember the earth was destroyed once before, Jesus compared the upcoming destruction to the flood, the earth will survive, and it will be filled with God's people just as He intended.
 

Robert Gwin

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Gods Word Taught you. I pointed, you exercised your Freewill to verify what I pointed to, and we both did a Works glorifying to God...

That’s what a mans works is all about...Glorifying God.

Did you know, Every works a man does to glorify God...is a “debt” God takes upon Himself?
And God “repays” His “Debts”....with treasures He stores up in heaven...
And shall dole out those treasures, in a manner Received unto the man, called a “Reward”....when? When the Lord returns.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matt 6:
[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Matt 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

God bless you brother,
Taken
Thanks Taken, I appreciate that for sure. It does amaze me how many believe that all you have to do for salvation is believe. Sometimes you wonder what their motives are. There are two people on another religion site that I post on, who literally don't even believe in God, but they will not reveal why they post, but it is clear to see their agenda, to pull believers away from God.
 

Robert Gwin

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Reconcile your opinions with the verses I've already shown you of where, what, when and how the new heaven and new earth shall be when the Lord returns the second time. Until you can do that, you force contradiction into God's Word.
Like I replied to an earlier statement from you, God's word does not contradict sir, if it does it is our understanding that is flawed.

New heavens and new earth is not literal, as there is no defect in either, they will be cleansed. The heavens are already cleansed and therefore the new heavens are in place. satan and the demons have been cast out, and now reside on the earth, however shortly they will be removed from the earth and locked away in an abyss for 1 millennium, but the new earth is not yet fully established, as satan will once again be allowed to roam the earth for a short time. Rev 20:7-9 then when verse 10 is fulfilled, the new earth will be fully established.
 

rwb

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Yes sir, on earth as it is in heaven, pretty much settles it Rw, I believe that the Bible does not contradict, and the earth is stated as abiding forever. Remember the earth was destroyed once before, Jesus compared the upcoming destruction to the flood, the earth will survive, and it will be filled with God's people just as He intended.

Why do you continue to ignore what the verse literally says Bob? Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven is NOT Thy kingdom come to this earth, and you clearly have to know that! So why does Christ say Thy Kingdom come since He also says, My Kingdom is NOT of this world? The Pharisees, like you, also asked Christ when the Kingdom of God should come. Christ's answer tells us why we are to pray "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as in heaven". Because His Kingdom NOW in this age is not observed through physical sight but is within you. Since we cannot physically know who has entered into His Kingdom NOW, we pray that His Kingdom might be complete (come) as those professing to belong to His Kingdom do His will while here on earth, just as His will is done in heaven. Because it is through being in His Kingdom within us that believers are sent unto all the earth with the Gospel. Because it is by hearing the Gospel and believing that man enters the Kingdom of God within you.

Matthew 6:10 (KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The only reason that I can think of that one would continue to argue that the Kingdom of God will physically come to this earth, is because their doctrine, not the Scripture demands it.