The thief on the cross misconceptions

[Ronald David Bruno]

You can't cherrypick scripture as you've just done. If you do, scripture will appear to conflict with scripture because the answer isn't found in just one, but rather the true answer is found when all the relative scriptures are taken into consideration. Scripture doesn't contradict itself. As An example, Romans 10:9 says confess and you'll be saved! So, which is it? The fact of the matter is, it's both plus more: belief and faith, confession of your belief as the Ethiopian eunuch did in Acts 8, repentance as the Jews did in Acts 2, and baptism into Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, also ad the jews did in Acts 2. If you believe, then you'll be obedient and do what you are told to do.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief + baptism = salvation in Jesus words

And Billy Graham, and now his son preach a false, non scriptural message. There are no examples of anyone being saved by reciting a prayer and asking Jesus into their heart. That's total BS nonsense. Read the various conversions in the book of Acts.

Repentance is not turning to God but rather is sorry for, and turning away from your sins.

Acts 22:16 (contrary to what you said)

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

No, baptism is not a public testimony. That's also man made-up nonsense that's not scriptural. When the Ethiopian eunuch was converted, the only ones present were him and Philip, and that isn't why he was baptized. So who was his baptism a public to? Read the account in Acts 8.

The Holy Spirit didn't save anyone on the day of Pentecost. It was a sign from above which validated and enabled the apostles to speak in tongues native to the audience, after which they in the audience became believers, were told to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and were added to the body of Christ by the Lord himself. Read the account in Acts 2:38-47.

Read and adhere to the words of the bible and don't follow your gut feeling or unscriptural, man contrived doctrine.

Luke 23:40-43
But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” L

He feared God
He confessed to be a sinner.
Confessed Jesus as Lord.
Believed in an afterlife where Jesus headed and in a sense asked for forgiveness, "remember me ..." (forgive me and allow me to go with you).
Jesus forgave him and promised salvation.

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.


John 6:35
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 20:31
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

Acts 19:1-7
9 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Millions of people are saved moments before they die who are given the last rights, preached the gospel and they believe and confess the Lord - without water baptism.
John's baptism was to prepare them, to repent, but when Jesus came, they turned to Him and believed and He baptized them with the Holy Spirit.

 

[DJT_47]

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

belief is not enough nor is relying on a few scriptures while ignoring the rest. Goodbye

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

belief is not enough nor is relying on a few scriptures while ignoring the rest. Goodbye

Goodbye!

 

[Johann]

Acts 2:47 says - "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." How are we saved? By grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Acts 2:41 - Then those who gladly received his word (through repentance/faith) were (afterwards) baptized; (just as we see in Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

In regards to Romans 6:3-4, as Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Baptism is the public proclamation of one's inward spiritual relation to Christ attained before the baptism. See on "Galatians 3:27" where it is like putting on an outward garment or uniform. Into his death (ei ton qanaton autou). So here "unto his death," "in relation to his death," which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance.The picture in baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death and burial and to our death to sin, forward to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk on the other side of the baptismal grave. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It is a tragedy that Paul's majestic picture here has been so blurred by controversy that some refuse to see it. It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Romans 6 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Typical argument made by folks who attend the church of Christ. (Campbellism) "Through His blood" (Colossians 1:14) is a reference, not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross. (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16)

This is a reference to Spirit baptism and not water baptism. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

It sounds like you have been throroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism. There are a handful of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism absolutely necessary for salvation, yet after a careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, although they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts only prove that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

Wouldn't like to be on the wrong side with you on this topic

 

[Adam]

The thief who repented was forgiven because he showed humility and regret and faith in God. This has nothing to do with baptism.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The thief who repented was forgiven because he showed humility and regret and faith in God. This has nothing to do with baptism.

You get the medal! Water Baptism is for someone who is already saved as an outward sign to the world and the angelic realm of the inward reality that has already taken place.

 

[Johann]

Luke 23:40-43
But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” L

He feared God
He confessed to be a sinner.
Confessed Jesus as Lord.
Believed in an afterlife where Jesus headed and in a sense asked for forgiveness, "remember me ..." (forgive me and allow me to go with you).
Jesus forgave him and promised salvation.

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.


John 6:35
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 20:31
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

Acts 19:1-7
9 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Millions of people are saved moments before they die who are given the last rights, preached the gospel and they believe and confess the Lord - without water baptism.
John's baptism was to prepare them, to repent, but when Jesus came, they turned to Him and believed and He baptized them with the Holy Spirit.

Excellent work here Ronald.

 

[Johann]

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

belief is not enough nor is relying on a few scriptures while ignoring the rest. Goodbye

You are still relatively new here.
If I should disagree with you, are you going to quote scriptures such as this to me also?

Eph 6:10 In conclusion, be strong in the Lord [be empowered through your union with Him]; draw your strength from Him [that strength which His boundless might provides].
Eph 6:11 Put on God's whole armor [the armor of a heavy-armed soldier which God supplies], that you may be able successfully to stand up against [all] the strategies and the deceits of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.
Eph 6:13 Therefore put on God's complete armor, that you may be able to resist and stand your ground on the evil day [of danger], and, having done all [the crisis demands], to stand [firmly in your place].
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore [hold your ground], having tightened the belt of truth around your loins and having put on the breastplate of integrity and of moral rectitude and right standing with God,
Eph 6:15 And having shod your feet in preparation [to face the enemy with the firm-footed stability, the promptness, and the readiness produced by the good news] of the Gospel of peace. [Isa_52:7]
Eph 6:16 Lift up over all the [covering] shield of saving faith, upon which you can quench all the flaming missiles of the wicked [one].
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation and the sword that the Spirit wields, which is the Word of God.
Eph 6:18 Pray at all times (on every occasion, in every season) in the Spirit, with all [manner of] prayer and entreaty. To that end keep alert and watch with strong purpose and perseverance, interceding in behalf of all the saints (God's consecrated people).
Eph 6:19 And [pray] also for me, that [freedom of] utterance may be given me, that I may open my mouth to proclaim boldly the mystery of the good news (the Gospel),
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in a coupling chain [in prison. Pray] that I may declare it boldly and courageously, as I ought to do.

Why do we need the armor? To wrestle against each other?

Shalom
J.

 

[Adam]

I also want to note: The thief did something that nobody else in the crowd did... when all the mob and the other crucified were mocking Jesus, basically saying "look, he obviously isn't the messiah if he is being crucified, none of the prophesies came true, he is an obvious impostor", the thief was the only one who went against the crowd, and took the "narrow path" instead of the "broad path" and realized that Jesus was exactly who he said he was, even in his current pitiable condition. So that shows the thief had a certain strength and wisdom even before his deathbed repentance.

 

[Johann]

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble

belief is not enough nor is relying on a few scriptures while ignoring the rest. Goodbye

You are still relatively new here.
If I should disagree with you, are you going to quote scriptures such as this to me also?

Eph 6:10 In conclusion, be strong in the Lord [be empowered through your union with Him]; draw your strength from Him [that strength which His boundless might provides].
Eph 6:11 Put on God's whole armor [the armor of a heavy-armed soldier which God supplies], that you may be able successfully to stand up against [all] the strategies and the deceits of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.
Eph 6:13 Therefore put on God's complete armor, that you may be able to resist and stand your ground on the evil day [of danger], and, having done all [the crisis demands], to stand [firmly in your place].
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore [hold your ground], having tightened the belt of truth around your loins and having put on the breastplate of integrity and of moral rectitude and right standing with God,
Eph 6:15 And having shod your feet in preparation [to face the enemy with the firm-footed stability, the promptness, and the readiness produced by the good news] of the Gospel of peace. [Isa_52:7]
Eph 6:16 Lift up over all the [covering] shield of saving faith, upon which you can quench all the flaming missiles of the wicked [one].
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation and the sword that the Spirit wields, which is the Word of God.
Eph 6:18 Pray at all times (on every occasion, in every season) in the Spirit, with all [manner of] prayer and entreaty. To that end keep alert and watch with strong purpose and perseverance, interceding in behalf of all the saints (God's consecrated people).
Eph 6:19 And [pray] also for me, that [freedom of] utterance may be given me, that I may open my mouth to proclaim boldly the mystery of the good news (the Gospel),
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in a coupling chain [in prison. Pray] that I may declare it boldly and courageously, as I ought to do.

Why do we need the armor? To wrestle against each other?

Shalom
J.

 

[DJT_47]

Wouldn't like to be on the wrong side with you

Paul wrote most of the NT epistles, and Church Doctrine.
Paul wrote.."Christ sent me not to water baptize".

Here is how to understand LEGALISM, as it relates to Cross Rejection.

The clearest way to understand Legalism, is that its anything and everything that is added to the Cross of Christ as a FALSE part of Salvation.
In other words... Jesus is your Salvation. His Cross is why God accepts you and keeps you.

Legalism and heretics who preach it, try to add to the Cross their LIST of "you must ALSO DO"..... as if the Cross of Christ isn't ALL that God offers to forgive you and keep you forgiven.

Here is a partial List of LEGALISM, that heretics will try to add to The Cross of Christ, so that the Cross becomes reduced and omitted.

1.) Water Baptism
2.) Commandment Keeping
3.) Enduring to the end...
4.) The Law
5.) "Our Church" is the Only True Church
6.) Confessing Sin
7.) Living in repentance


See those? Those are NOT WHAT SAVES YOU, and a Heretic will try to get you mentally hooked into keeping all that as a part of WHY God accepts you and keeps you.
And if you become caught up in this Legalism, which is a mental stronghold... you have literally left real faith in Christ and are become a LEGALIST, and your faith in Christ is broken.
That is why these people are ON FORUMS... they are trying to destroy your Faith in Christ and replace it with "SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS"..

Self Righteousness, is. trying to make yourself right with God by SELF EFFORT.
This is LEGALISM and this rejects the Cross of Christ.

If you read a little further in 1 Cor you'll see what Paul meant by stating he was not sent to baptize but to preach. Read 1 Cor 3:6-9. There it says Paul preached and Apollos watered.

 

[Lambano]

You get the medal! Water Baptism is for someone who is already saved as an outward sign to the world and the angelic realm of the inward reality that has already taken place.

I'm glad somebody said that.

To paraphrase a half-remembered author, "Without faith, a crucifix is just two sticks, the Eucharist is just wheat and sour grape juice, and baptism is just getting wet."

 

[mailmandan]

Goodbye!

The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent belief" as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Those who say "belief is not enough" have the wrong kind of belief.

 

[Behold]

The thief on the cross misconceptions

Post #1
Post Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:10 pm
I continually encounter people trying to justify that baptism is not an absolute necessity for one's salvation

Water can't save you.
Dont follow a WATER CULT that teaches you that it did, as Salvation is by Grace through Faith, and not by the city water supply.

Here are 2 CULTS that teach the Devil's LIE = that water washes away your sin

1.) Catholic
2.) Jehovah's Witness

 

[Taken]

The thief on the cross misconceptions

Post #1
Post Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:10 pm
I continually encounter people trying to justify that baptism is not an absolute necessity for one's salvation by use (erroneously) of the thief on the cross as justification, as he was not baptized but yet saved by the Lord, which is true! BUT, the error in this is the lack of understanding of the scriptures. You must read and understand Hebrews 9:15-17 which clarifies why the thief on the cross was saved by Jesus without being baptized.

BUT...the malefactor hanging next to Jesus was Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Water Baptism never saved a single soul, nor will it ever.

You seem to be saying you encounter people justifying Water Baptism is not necessary for Salvation. Because it isn’t.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit IS necessary for Forgiveness of a mans SIN of having HAD Disbelief....to receive Salvation of their soul...to receive Circumcision of their Heart...to receive a new Heart....to receive the SEED of God....to receive the Birth of their new spirit....to receive the Holy Spirit of (Gods) Truth...to be FED continuously of Gods Truth...and to be SEALED unto God only....that Only the Lord God Himself can redeem and claim you unto Himself...once and forever.

Water has been used for centuries to clean the outside of the Flesh, Garments, Food, Cookware and homes.

Gods Spirit alone, kills the old inside, and Makes the soul restored, and Makes the spirit alive with Gods Seed.
Jesus’ Blood alone, washes the out side of the body, and Makes it justified to be Sanctified (set apart) for Redemption unto to the Lord God.

Remember Jesus’ harsh criticism to the Pharisees? They being entirely concerned with HOW their OUTSIDE “Looked”....Water washed, prancing about to be Seen in their Fine Clothing, AS IF, bystanders looking on should be jealous, envious and revere them as Godly Because of their Outside...while Preaching what OTHERS MUST DO, but they themselves, NOT DOING?

Water Baptism was even called...John’s Baptism. It was a prelude, a foreshadow, just as John himself, knew and said....of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the knowledge thereof coming To and Among the People, for them to hear and learn and decide IF they wanted that accept that Offering.

And IF you pay attention....Water Baptism is a scheduled event. It is a ritual that a man can schedule for any witness in the congregation to SEE, and thereafter believe that man has joined in as one of their Brothers IN Christ.

When in FACT, a man who answers an ALTAR call, Before an entire congregation gathered together....Has at that moment freely given his LIFE to the Lord God, Become Baptized With the Holy Spirit, and every person in the congregation his witness.

Water Baptism has become a means, A Church Accepts as a testament for JOINING in “on the Churches books”, as a “member of THAT particular Church”.

Holy Spirit Baptism is that man having Become a member of “Christ’s Church”...
Which is NOT built with brick and mortar, sticks and nails....of mens works.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[DJT_47]

I'm glad somebody said that.

To paraphrase a half-remembered author, "Without faith, a crucifix is just two sticks, the Eucharist is just wheat and sour grape juice, and baptism is just getting wet."

You guys are out to lunch. What are we saved from? Our past sins; and you aren't saved until they're removed. And how is that done according to the scriptures? It's not by belief or faith only, nor by repentance or confession only.

 

[Lambano]

You guys are out to lunch. What are we saved from? Our past sins; and you aren't saved until they're removed. And how is that done according to the scriptures? It's not by belief or faith only, nor by repentance or confession only.

Nah. Our sins are removed because God removes them. Not because we got dunked.

 

[DJT_47]

Nah. Are sins are removed because God removes them. Not because we got dunked.

God for sure removes them IF we are obedient and follow his commands. Like I said, you are out to lunch. Believe whatever nonsense you like. Goodbye

 

[Lambano]

Goodbye

Okay; I'll try not to let the door hit me in the butt on the way out.

Oh, and thank you for not showing us your circumcision scar. That's also one of God's commands.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent belief" as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance in Christ for salvation," as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Those who say "belief is not enough" have the wrong kind of belief.

That is a very good point, glad you brought that up. Now it is less of an insult, putting me in the category of devils.
The Christian's belief is Faith, a gift from God, which devils do not have. Knowing God exists is a belief for sure, they have experienced Him firsthand. But while knowing, they disobey and go against Him.
Like peerling back an onion, we delve deeper into its meaning. Belief means you need to demonstrate it - that you actually do what Jesus says. If you remain disobedient, it really means you belief/faith is marginal.
Thanks, that was rich.