More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[The Light]

That's right. He believes in 4 future comings of Christ. It's the most ludicrous, convoluted, nonsensical doctrine imaginable.

Actually, there is probably 5, but the fifth cannot be totally proven as a separate coming.

 

[WPM]

No sir. The Church will be raptured before the seals are opened. The kings and priest in heaven in Rev 5 out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; is the Church in heaven. This is why the Church that was mentioned 19 times in the 1st three chapters of Revelation is not mentioned again until Rev 22.

The harvest in Revelation 14 is the Lord returning for the 12 tribes across the earth. This event occurs at the 6th seal. Only those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection and unbelievers go through the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

Words, terms, tiles and descriptions that are repeatedly used elsewhere in the New Testament to describe the Church of Jesus Christ are used regularly in Revelation 4 to 19 to describe the true Church of Jesus Christ.

The Church is described as the “saints” in Revelation 5:8, 8:3, 8:4, 11:18, 13:7, 13:10, 14:12, 15:3, 16:6, 17:6, 19:8 and 20:9.

The New Testament uses the term “saint” some 59 times, repeatedly describing Christians who walk in newness of life. The objective Bible student can quickly discern that this name consistently pertains to true believers in the New Testament.

The Church is described in Revelation as the “redeemed” in Revelation 5:9, 14:3 and 14:4.

The New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christians alone are “redeemed” through the blood of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:68, 24:21, Gal 3:13, 4:5. Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:18). The unregenerate have not partook in this life-changing experience.

The Church is also known in Revelation, like elsewhere in Scriptures, as the “brethren” Such references are found in Revelation 6:11, 12:10, 19:10, 22:9.

The Church is referred to in Revelation 17:14 as the “chosen (or elect), and faithful.”

The word rendered “chosen” in the King James Version is the Greek word eklektos, and is the same word used in Matthew and Mark to describe the elect that are gathered unto Christ at His coming after the tribulation. It is the same word that is used 23 times in the New Testament to denote the redeemed, blood-bought, members of Christ’s Church!

The Church is described as “servants” in Revelation 1:1, 2:20, 7:3, 10:7, 11:18, 19:2, 19:5, 22:3 and 22:6.

The Church is described as those “in / with white robes,” who are washed in the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 3:4, 5, 18, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 13, 14, and 19:8, 14.

The Church is described as “kings and priests” in Revelation 1:6, 5:10 and 20:6.

God’s people are described as “souls” twice in Revelation, both in a heavenly context, both thus relating to the disembodied saints, in Revelation 6:9 and 20:4.

The disembodied saints are also known as “fellowservants” in Revelation 6:11.

The Church is also described as a “woman” in Revelation 12:1,4, 6,13,15,16 and 17.

The Church is also described as “the temple” in Revelation 3:12, 11:1 and 2. Notwithstanding, there are other passages in Revelation that could link the temple to the Church.

The Church in heaven is described in Revelation 14:13 as “the dead which die in the Lord.”

The Church is described in Revelation 15:2 as “them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark.”

The Church is also known in Revelation as “he/him that overcometh” (speaking in generic terms) – Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 26, 3:5, 12, 21 and 21:7.

The saints are described in Revelation 16:15 as “he that watcheth, and keepeth their garments.”

The Church is also expressed in Revelation 18:4 as “my people,” in Revelation 21:3 as “his people” and Revelation 19:1 as “much people in heaven.”

Revelation 7:9 describes God’s people in heaven as “a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues.” Revelation 5:9 says: “out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

The Church is also described as “the bride” of Christ in Revelation 18:23, 21:9, 22:17, and similarly as “the Lamb's wife” in Revelation 19:7 and 21:9.

Revelation 12:17, 14:12 and 21:14 describes the Church as “they that do/keep God’s commandments.”

The Church is also described as “the armies which were in heaven” in Revelation 19:14.

Revelation 21:24 describes the Church as “them which are saved.”

Revelation 21:27 describes the Church as “they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”

Most of the above are familiar terms used to describe the universal Church of Jesus Christ are found elsewhere in the Bible (Old and New Testament) describing God’s people the Church. These are general terms that are commonly used and perfectly understood by all sensible Christians as describing God’s chosen people throughout the centuries and throughout the nations.

There are many different references throughout the whole book of Revelation to the existence, testimony and endurance of Christians during the tribulation period. These saints are described as those that possess “the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:1), and consequently carry “the testimony of Jesus” (Revelation 1:2, 9, 12:17, 19:10), and are “the witness of Jesus” (Revelation 20:4). They exhibit the “patience of Jesus” (Revelation 1:9), and many become the “martyrs of Jesus” (Revelation 17:6). Frankly, if these aren’t Christians, what are they?

A passage that ably supports this supposition and locates the Christian in the tribulation period is Revelation 14:12-13, which says, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

The “patience of the saints” here in Revelation 14:12 must surely be linked to the “patience of Jesus” in Revelation 1:9.

The means by which these saints overcome the devil, the world and the flesh during great tribulation is the exact same as that employed by Christians throughout history. Those Christians that carry “the testimony of Jesus” in the tribulation are seen to conquer Satan by “the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11), again, confirming their sure unitary position within the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[WPM]

Oh boy. I get to listen to most of you that think you have replaced Gods chosen, tell me the pretrib is a doctrine of demons and other such baloney. You should be watching, and ready as instructed.

Who are God's chosen people today?

 

[WPM]

Why would I be reluctant as I already know what your response will be, and it will be incorrect? It's not my first rodeo.

Revelation 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 4
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The reason why you cannot explain these 2 passages and show us a Pretrib rapture of the Church, a 7 years trib, and a 3rd coming, here is because they do not exist. It is a figment of your imagination. Your teachers have misled you on this, as with everything else. You cannot even exegete the passages you claim as support. You cannot highlight any biblical evidence. All you can do is wing it and avoid the obvious.

We have been waiting a long time on a proof-text. I suspect your bitterness and ad hominem emanates from your frustration at having no biblical support. Your mentors have left you holding the baby and you have no answers. You bought into this false teaching willingly, but cannot explain what you quote in the sacred text. That is. a classic sign of error.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It appears you live in a delusional world. You have yet to address all these coming of the Lord that are in scripture. How is it the that gathering is before the day of the Lord according to scripture and yet you claim He comes at the end of wrath only. Nothing you say agrees with scripture, simple as that.
2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

How do you think that passage supports what you're saying? Paul indicated that or gathering together unto Christ will happen ON the day of the Lord, which is the day of His second coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well written and clear to even the casual Biblical enthusiast.

Yes, it was. Amillennialism is based primarily on literal, straightforward text. Yet, we get accused of supposedly spiritualizing everything. That is a lie.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh boy. I get to listen to most of you that think you have replaced Gods chosen, tell me the pretrib is a doctrine of demons and other such baloney. You should be watching, and ready as instructed.

What cult are you part of again? Do you somehow not understand that Christians, both Jew and Gentile, are God's chosen people, as taught in scripture repeatedly? Have you never read the New Testament?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Utter nonsense?

Yes. 100%, complete utter nonsense that can't be taken seriously at all. You twist scripture so badly that it boggles my mind.

Here is Jesus on Mount Sion with the 144,000. They are redeemed from the earth and are then in heaven before the throne. Feel free to explain this coming of Jesus that you can't see.

Do you not believe that the souls of the dead in Christ go to heaven when they physically/bodily die? That is who is being referred to there. It has nothing to do with a coming of Christ or with a bodily resurrection from the dead.

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


He will first come for the Church, pretrib.

No, He will not. That is not taught anywhere in scripture. You're already off the rails here.

Then He will come for the 144,000 first fruits and return to heaven.

Where is this taught in scripture? It seems to me that you believe any reference to people being in heaven is a reference to people who have been bodily resurrected and brought to heaven. Do you not understand that the soul of a dead believer goes to heaven immediately upon physical death?

Then He comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. We can see that coming also in Revelation 14, JUST BEFORE WRATH.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Then we have Jesus return at the end of the trumpet to set up His kingdom.

If these things are not in your Bible, you are using a bad translation or lack understanding.

That refers to the ONE AND ONLY future coming of Christ. He will gather His people to Himself and then proceed to destroy all of His enemies. That's it. All this other stuff that comes from your imagination is not taught in scripture anywhere. You are clearly the one who is completely lacking in understanding. It has nothing to do with what translation is being used, it has to do with your complete lack of discernment when it comes to these things.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. Avoidance? So all these posts are avoidance. Your blindness is only outweighed by your lack of understanding.

How could Amil be correct when there are so many comings of Jesus that you are blind to?

So, I guess everyone in the world is blind to all these "many comings of Jesus" except you? How can it be that of all the people in the world, only you believe in this many future comings of Jesus nonsense?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually, there is probably 5, but the fifth cannot be totally proven as a separate coming.

LOL. Pure nonsense. Can't be taken seriously. You are delusional.

 

[The Light]

Do you not believe that the souls of the dead in Christ go to heaven when they physically/bodily die? That is who is being referred to there. It has nothing to do with a coming of Christ or with a bodily resurrection from the dead.

Hmmm. And yet when Jesus rose from the dead He was then considered the first fruits of those that sleep. In other words He was first fruits of a harvest which will be the dead in Christ. The first harvest is the Church. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the second harvest. You can tell me Christ didn't come to Mount Sion to get them and then return to heaven if you want. However, the Word says Jesus does come to Mount Sion to get them. Who is right? You or what is written? I'll go with the Word on this one.

Where is this taught in scripture? It seems to me that you believe any reference to people being in heaven is a reference to people who have been bodily resurrected and brought to heaven. Do you not understand that the soul of a dead believer goes to heaven immediately upon physical death?

When I see a great multitude in white robes in heaven right after Jesus has come to the earth and sent His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth, I think we can be sure a harvest has happened.

That refers to the ONE AND ONLY future coming of Christ. He will gather His people to Himself and then proceed to destroy all of His enemies. That's it. All this other stuff that comes from your imagination is not taught in scripture anywhere. You are clearly the one who is completely lacking in understanding. It has nothing to do with what translation is being used, it has to do with your complete lack of discernment when it comes to these things.

Are you able to understand that Jesus sends His angels before the wrath of God? Are you able to understand that the 5th trumpet is 5 months in time? Are you then able to see that what you are saying is incorrect.

 

[ScottA]

Do you not believe He will return bodily one day?

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Yes, I do, and know it to be true...just not the way it is commonly understood.

The words are intentionally general so that flesh reads it as worldly, while the Spirit discerns it spiritually. Which is to say, yes bodily--but we are His body. Thus, it is true, He returns bodily by the same spirit as He also went to the Father...which according to the world would be "future", but not according to the Spirit that raised Him from the dead...for we "were" crucified and raised up with Him.

 

[WPM]

So, I guess everyone in the world is blind to all these "many comings of Jesus" except you? How can it be that of all the people in the world, only you believe in this many future comings of Jesus nonsense?

Listen to what he thinks of anyone who doesn't hold this nonsense:

Your blindness is only outweighed by your lack of understanding.

You need to study up fast. You are currently in the camp of those that say "where is the promise of His coming"? You need to be in the camp of those that are watching and ready, for the son of man comes in an hour that you think not.

You better watch and be ready as the Master said. Listening to this other nonsense is foolishness for the blind.

Time runs short and you have passed your blindness to many. Better wake up fast. Are you THAT blind?

You have no clue…

You lack understanding. The time draws very, very short and you are unaware of the master soon arrival.

Pretty much you are clueless and spread blindness like a cancer. Time runs short and you are blind to it.

If you call eyes to see nothing you must be ...............BLIND

All I know is what the Word says. I can't get the blind to see. Despite the clear warning to watch and be ready, it's obvious you are not in the watching mode.

Sadly the hour is almost here and you are blind to it.

I realize that there's not a snowballs chance that you will understand this but that's the result of blindness and ignorance.

There are a plethora of verses and yet the blind cannot see.

This guy is so full of himself. It is unbelievable.

 

[ScottA]

Actually, there is probably 5, but the fifth cannot be totally proven as a separate coming.

Actually...:)...as many "as the sand on the sea shore." As Paul said, "but each one in his own order. "

 

[The Light]

Listen to what he thinks of anyone who doesn't hold this nonsense:

This guy is so full of himself. It is unbelievable.

That's all you got. Personal attacks. Why not explain why Jesus is on earth with 144000, and then goes to heaven, if He only comes once as you claim. Or you could try explaining why we see Jesus come before wrath instead of at the end of wrath in Revelation 6. You really have no answers and it is frustrating you.

 

[WPM]

That's all you got. Personal attacks. Why not explain why Jesus is on earth with 144000, and then goes to heaven, if He only comes once as you claim. Or you could try explaining why we see Jesus come before wrath instead of at the end of wrath in Revelation 6. You really have no answers and it is frustrating you.

Personal attacks? Look in the mirror. Do you know what projection is? You should have been in the police for a few years and you would have quickly learned. It is the perpetrator attributing to the victim what pertains to the perpetrator. It is what you continually do. Vulnerable and insecure people do this.

It is you that is attacking fellow believers and questioning their salvation. It is you that cannot stop writing anyone off as blind who simply dare to disagrees with you. This is the opposite of Jesus. This is the work of the enemy. All because you have no Scripture to support your theology. m

Why would anyone take you serious? Your theology is as messed up as you.

 

[WPM]

Yes, I do, and know it to be true...just not the way it is commonly understood.

The words are intentionally general so that flesh reads it as worldly, while the Spirit discerns it spiritually. Which is to say, yes bodily--but we are His body. Thus, it is true, He returns bodily by the same spirit as He also went to the Father...which according to the world would be "future", but not according to the Spirit that raised Him from the dead...for we "were" crucified and raised up with Him.

Are all the redeemed raised with new bodies at the same time in the future? Do you believe on a literal future resurrection day where all the dead rise out of the graves?

Describe what happens when Jesus comes again for all His people? When is corruption lifted and how will that be different from today?

 

[The Light]

Personal attacks? Look in the mirror. Do you know what projection is? You should have been in the police for a few years and you would have quickly learned. It is the perpetrator attributing to the victim what pertains to the perpetrator. It is what you continually do. Vulnerable and insecure people do this.

It is you that is attacking fellow believers and questioning their salvation. It is you that cannot stop writing anyone off as blind who simply dare to disagrees with you. This is the opposite of Jesus. This is the work of the enemy. All because you have no Scripture to support your theology. m

Why would anyone take you serious? Your theology is as messed up as you.

And yet you are unable to answer my questions. Why not explain why Jesus is on earth with 144000, and then goes to heaven, if He only comes once as you claim. Or you could try explaining why we see Jesus come before wrath instead of at the end of wrath in Revelation 6.

 

[WPM]

And yet you are unable to answer my questions. Why not explain why Jesus is on earth with 144000, and then goes to heaven, if He only comes once as you claim. Or you could try explaining why we see Jesus come before wrath instead of at the end of wrath in Revelation 6.

Really? Where does it say that Jesus is on earth with 144000 and then goes to heaven? You add so much unto Scripture. It is ridiculous. That is because you have no Bible support.

The wrath of God is upon the wicked. Ask Pharaoh! Revelation is several recaps ending at the one and only second coming. You cannot see that because your teachers have deceived you. Because you do not see the recaps in Revelation you are totally confused by what it saying.

The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

Once again, this text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

 

[ScottA]

Are all the redeemed raised with new bodies at the same time in the future? Do you believe on a literal future resurrection day where all the dead rise out of the graves?

Describe what happens when Jesus comes again for all His people? When is corruption lifted and how will that be different from today?

Paul clarified saying, not as most have believed, "but each one in his own order." Which means, yes "future" for those to whom He has not yet "come in to", but also past for those to whom He has already "come in to."

Such is the transition between time and eternity...therefore it was likewise correct to say we "were" crucified with Christ...even 2,000 years ago when Paul said it, just as it is now also written.

It is at that time that all that is written of the end comes to pass "but each one in his own order."