More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[WPM]

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It's not.

The fact that He will keep those from the hours of testing shows He will come for His bride as promised.


There is a mention of the Church that is kept from the hour of testing that you seem to be looking forward to.

You believe that Christ comes only once more, at yet the text shows at least 4 more comings. Of course, the blindness can overlook what the Word says.



Your inability to understand the text is your error, not mine, nor any failing of Christ.

1+1=2. That's far as we can go today. Hmmm. I guess tomorrow we will go over 1+1=2 again.


1+1=2

1+1=2, I know that you think that we are covering too much ground, but dig in.

You can find the answer in Matthew 25: 1-13

LOL. Check mate! You realize you have nothing. You have no proof-texts. That is because Pretrib is extra-biblical.

 

[The Light]

You rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it the First Advent, to support your end-time beliefs.

Well, your accusation is incorrect just many things you speak of are incorrect. I will show you facts, though the truth does seem to take root with you.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. It describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Well, let's continue and see if your assertation is true.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

Jeremiah 1:3 “It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.”

Jeremiah 2:27-28: “they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us. But where are thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for according to the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.”

Jeremiah 8:14-15: “assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD. We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble! "

Jeremiah 11:10-12: “They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.”

Jeremiah 14:7: “O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee. O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble.”

Jeremiah 15:2: “And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.”

Jeremiah 20:4: “For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will make thee a terror to thyself, and to all thy friends: and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and thine eyes shall behold it: and I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall carry them captive into Babylon, and shall slay them with the sword.”
Jeremiah 25:9-11: “Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Jeremiah 29:1: “Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon."

So far, so good.

Jeremiah 30:3-7: “For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel

It appears that the people go a second time into captivity

and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. "

It appears AFTER the return of Israel, THE SECOND TIME that the time of Jacobs trouble occurs.

Jeremiah 30:10-11: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

This appears to be a future event as the Lord has NOT made a full end of all nations where Israel was scattered. This will not occur until the 7th trumpet when "The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord."

This was speaking of Babylon at the time. It reveals a consistent scriptural truth, the vessels God uses to chasten His people, He then casts away. It was only the last few books that were post-exile. As promised, Israel after chastisement was delivered.

No. This appears to be talking about the second time Israel is dispersed.

Babylon was utterly destroyed. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Was Babylon utterly destroyed? You need a history lesson. Babylon was not utterly destroyed. Babylon was abandoned. Look it up. Babylon opened her gates.

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 32:44: “Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.”

Not the same captivity that was of Babylon.

 

[The Light]

Jeremiah 51:1: “Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host. Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.”

Now you are really stepping in it. Contrary to popular opinion Jeremiah 50 and 51 are unfulfilled prophecies.

The prophecy is not only against the city of Babylon, but also against the land of the Chaldeans

Jeremiah 50
The word that the Lord spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

Jeremiah 51
62 Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

There are still men living in the land of the Chaldeans and in the city of Babylon for that matter. The prophecy is unfullfilled as of yet but will be fullfilled during the TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE.

If this was a legal case it would be a closed case.

Nope. It would be the death penality or at least entering the hour of testing that is so very, very, close.

I believe it is absolutely water-tight.

Well here came the flood and the truth said someone drowned.

The lawyer would simply say: “I rest my case.” I don’t believe there is any question that an objective analyze of this book would come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jeremiah is describing Israel’s captivity in Babylon in his day.

The first 29 chapters of Jeremaih were about Babylonian captivity. That all changes in Jeremiah 30. Also the judgement of Jeremiah 50 and 51 is unfilled as we can see people living to this day.

You need to do a lot more studying. You sure miss a lot which explains why you are unable to see that God will come for His Church when you think not.

The judgement of Babylon has not happened yet, even though Gulf War 1 and 2 seems to be a tuneup. The job is not complete.
The job will not be complete until the DAY OF WRATH.

Isaiah 13
The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.

4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

 

[The Light]

LOL. Check mate! You realize you have nothing. You have no proof-texts. That is because Pretrib is extra-biblical. You avoid the exposure of your adding unto to Scripture.

Got nothing? If you call eyes to see nothing you must be ...............BLIND

 

[WPM]

Well, your accusation is incorrect just many things you speak of are incorrect. I will show you facts, though the truth does seem to take root with you.


Well, let's continue and see if your assertation is true.




So far, so good.


It appears that the people go a second time into captivity



It appears AFTER the return of Israel, THE SECOND TIME that the time of Jacobs trouble occurs.


This appears to be a future event as the Lord has NOT made a full end of all nations where Israel was scattered. This will not occur until the 7th trumpet when "The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord."


No. This appears to be talking about the second time Israel is dispersed.




Was Babylon utterly destroyed? You need a history lesson. Babylon was not utterly destroyed. Babylon was abandoned. Look it up. Babylon opened her gates.


Not the same captivity that was of Babylon.

I refer you back to my last post on this matter that rebuts your claims.

 

[WPM]

Now you are really stepping in it. Contrary to popular opinion Jeremiah 50 and 51 are unfulfilled prophecies.

The prophecy is not only against the city of Babylon, but also against the land of the Chaldeans

Jeremiah 50
The word that the Lord spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

Jeremiah 51
62 Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

There are still men living in the land of the Chaldeans and in the city of Babylon for that matter. The prophecy is unfullfilled as of yet but will be fullfilled during the TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE.



Nope. It would be the death penality or at least entering the hour of testing that is so very, very, close.


Well here came the flood and the truth said someone drowned.


The first 29 chapters of Jeremaih were about Babylonian captivity. That all changes in Jeremiah 30. Also the judgement of Jeremiah 50 and 51 is unfilled as we can see people living to this day.


You need to do a lot more studying. You sure miss a lot which explains why you are unable to see that God will come for His Church when you think not.

The judgement of Babylon has not happened yet, even though Gulf War 1 and 2 seems to be a tuneup. The job is not complete.
The job will not be complete until the DAY OF WRATH.

Isaiah 13
The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.

4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Historically fulfilled! Check the evidence above!

 

[WPM]

Got nothing? If you call eyes to see nothing you must be ...............BLIND

I am calling out a doctrine that you have demonstrated has zero corroboration to support all of its claims. Your avoidance reinforces the Amil cause here, that is the only reason i welcome this engagement. I would not normally waste my time on arguing with someone who builds their beliefs on what they have been taught instead of what the Book states.

 

[The Light]

Historically fulfilled! Check the evidence above!

Fulfilled during the day of wrath which has not happened as of yet. In case you are unaware.

 

[The Light]

I am calling out a doctrine that you have demonstrated has zero corroboration to support all of its claims. Your avoidance reinforces the Amil cause here, that is the only reason i welcome this engagement. I would not normally waste my time on arguing with someone who builds their beliefs on what they have been taught instead of what the Book states.

LOL. Avoidance? So all these posts are avoidance. Your blindness is only outweighed by your lack of understanding.

How could Amil be correct when there are so many comings of Jesus that you are blind to?

On what I have been taught? I was taught by the Word. I was pre wrath at one point until I realized He comes for two harvests before wrath and not just one. And of course He comes for the 144,000 which you are blind to.

Let me know who the teacher I'm following is?

 

[WPM]

LOL. Avoidance? So all these posts are avoidance. Your blindness is only outweighed by your lack of understanding.

Ad hominem and avoidance are all you are left with. You rubbished biblical corroboration because you do not possess it. You ignored post after post that exposed your lack of a proof-text. What else do you have but insults? This is the way it always ends up with Pretribbers because they have no Scripture that teaches their Jesuit error.

 

[The Light]

Ad hominem and avoidance are all you are left with. You rubbished biblical corroboration because you do not possess it. You ignored post after post that exposed your lack of a proof-text. What else do you have but insults? This is the way it always ends up with Pretribbers because they have no Scripture that teaches their Jesuit error.

You got one coming of Jesus at the end of wrath and CAN'T explain why the gathering from heaven and earth happens before the day of the Lord. That alone Biblically proves your error.

 

[WPM]

You got one coming of Jesus at the end of wrath and CAN'T explain why the gathering from heaven and earth happens before the day of the Lord. That alone Biblically proves your error.

It is simple to the informed unindoctrinated mind. God always rescues His elect before pouring out His final wrath, not tribulation.

 

[jeffweeder]

It is simple to the informed unindoctrinated mind. God always rescues His elect before pouring out His final wrath, not tribulation.

Amen.
John 16:33
I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

Matthew 24:22
And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Everyone who has testified that Jesus has come into them, are witnesses to His return.

Do you not believe He will return bodily one day?

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He does come in like manner only once. However...........he remains in the clouds in this coming.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

I just wonder what translation you are using because it seems like you are reading a different book.

Reading a different book? Are you kidding me? No translation has Him descending from heaven more than once in the future, as you believe. That is utter nonsense.

You believe He will go back to heaven and then come again later after what is described in Revelation 14, right? How do figure that He would not come in like manner when He (supposedly) comes yet again after going back to heaven?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No sir. The Church will be raptured before the seals are opened. The kings and priest in heaven in Rev 5 out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; is the Church in heaven. This is why the Church that was mentioned 19 times in the 1st three chapters of Revelation is not mentioned again until Rev 22.

It is pure lunacy to claim that the church is not mentioned between Revelation 4-21.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:“Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Who make up this "great multitude" described here if not the church?

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Who else but those in the church "keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus"?

Revelation 13:7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

Who else are "God's holy people" (KJV has "the saints") except for those who are in the church?

Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

Who else but those in the church are "the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus"?

Clearly, the church is referenced several times within Revelation 4-21. Only extreme doctrinal bias can keep someone from seeing something so obvious as that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You need to study up fast. You are currently in the camp of those that say "where is the promise of His coming"? You need to be in the camp of those that are watching and ready, for the son of man comes in an hour that you think not.

There is no need for this kind of judgmental attitude. Do you somehow not know that you will be judged with the same measure that you judge others, just as you judged WPM here? If you read 2 Peter 3:3-4, the ones asking "where is the promise of His coming" are not Christians. They scoff at Christianity and at the idea of Jesus coming again. Are you intending to claim that WPM is not a Christian just because he doesn't agree with your ludicrous end times beliefs?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh. Really? So there is a secret rapture somewhere in Revelation 4-5, followed by a trib period followed by a 3rd coming in Revelation 14 for Israel, followed by a another trib period, followed by a 4th coming in Revelation 19, followed by a future millennium, followed by a 5th coming for all the millennial mortal converts and in order to rescue them from the millennial earth - that flees away after Satan's little season?

Where is this rapture in Revelation 5?

That's right. He believes in 4 future comings of Christ. It's the most ludicrous, convoluted, nonsensical doctrine imaginable.

 

[The Light]

Reading a different book? Are you kidding me? No translation has Him descending from heaven more than once in the future, as you believe. That is utter nonsense.

Utter nonsense? Here is Jesus on Mount Sion with the 144,000. They are redeemed from the earth and are then in heaven before the throne. Feel free to explain this coming of Jesus that you can't see.

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

You believe He will go back to heaven and then come again later after what is described in Revelation 14, right? How do figure that He would not come in like manner when He (supposedly) comes yet again after going back to heaven?

He will first come for the Church, pretrib. Then He will come for the 144,000 first fruits and return to heaven. Then He comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. We can see that coming also in Revelation 14, JUST BEFORE WRATH.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Then we have Jesus return at the end of the trumpet to set up His kingdom.

If these things are not in your Bible, you are using a bad translation or lack understanding.

 

[The Light]

There is no need for this kind of judgmental attitude. Do you somehow not know that you will be judged with the same measure that you judge others, just as you judged WPM here? If you read 2 Peter 3:3-4, the ones asking "where is the promise of His coming" are not Christians. They scoff at Christianity and at the idea of Jesus coming again. Are you intending to claim that WPM is not a Christian just because he doesn't agree with your ludicrous end times beliefs?

Oh boy. I get to listen to most of you that think you have replaced Gods chosen, tell me the pretrib is a doctrine of demons and other such baloney. You should be watching, and ready as instructed.