A Test Of Reading Comprehension and Honesty

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David in NJ

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exactly . Notice , JESUS was speaking TO HIS OWN . TO HIS OWN .
Yet today folks preach any kind of warning about not being decieved is legalism , not trusting in Christ .
YET JESUS warned EVEN HIS OWN TO TAKE HEED . Peter warned the church , paul warned the church
about CONTINUING TO THE END and NOT BEING decieved . YET TODAY when i do so
they say I DONT TRUST IN JESUS . JESUS SAID IT FIRST . SO I TRUST what HE SAID .

The BIG THREE that our Loving FATHER gave to us so that we can always be protected from deception.

#1 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

#2 These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

#3 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
 
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rwb

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What came first? the chicken or the egg???

Read Genesis my friend, for without it you have no Gospel

Lol! I almost asked the same question! Apparently Ernest has never heard of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
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rwb

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What Paul is writing in Romans 3 is to the Jews. From Rom 3:1-2 the Jews had been given the OT law which was an advantage to them over the Gentiles, yet that OT law could not justify the Jew because for to be justified by that OT law, that law required the Jew to keep all of it perfectly, falwlessly which the Jew could not do. Therefore that left the Jew under sin and no better than the Gentile. And to prove to the Jews they were in fact sinners and no better than the Gentiles, Paul quotes verses from the OT in Rom 3:10-18. And in v19 Paul is telling the Jews that your own law that was given to you says you are sinners.

--therefore Rom 3:10-18 is being addressed to the Jews not every one universally for after Paul quoted those OT verses he says in v19 "we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law". It was just the Jews who was "under the law" and therfore just the Jew verses 10-18 refer to.

--that OT law required flawless, perfect law keeping to ALL of it by the Jew for the Jew to justified by it. Yet the Jew could not keep it perfectly. Hence when Paul said "none are righteous" he means righteous in the absolute sense and pointing out that no Jew was perfectly, sinlessly keeping that OT law therefore could not be righteous by that OT law.....for just one sin brought the curse of the law upon the Jew for the law showed no mercy, it just condemned.

---there were those who are said to be righteous as Abel, but His righteousness did not come by perfect, flawless law keeping but by an faithful obedience to God's will......"by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous."

---"there is none that seeketh after God" This is a quote from David in Psalms and David was one who DID seek after God. Those Jews Paul was addressing thought they were pious and studied and knew the law yet Paul was pointing out they did not know the law as they claimed to for they were not really seeking after God but after their own traditions. Paul point out in Rom 10:1-3 those Jews were lost for they went about establishing their OWN rghteousness and were not seeking to submit to GOD's righteousness. Their lack of seeking God was why they could not recognize Jesus was the Messiah God promised them. Even Christ told them they were 'blind' (Matt 23:17). They did not have knoweldge of the OT law (Lk 11:52) for they were not seeking God but corrupting the law with their OWN traditions......


"There is none that seeketh after God ... What a paradox was this, that the chosen nation who had received the revelation of God and who had studied it so meticulously, were, in all that study, not seeking God at all, due to the lack of any proper motive, and having forgotten the warning of Hosea, "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord" (Hosea 6:3). Knowing what the scripture says is one thing; following on to know the Lord is another. Since the Jews were not seeking after God, what was the point of all their study? Christ himself pinpointed the trouble: it was this, that they desired the praise of men rather than the praise of God (John 12:43)" Coffman Comm.

---Again, Rom 3:10-18 is being addressed to the Jews. It does not refer to all mankind having been innately born with total depravity. But instead Paul is proving that the Jew was under sin therefore no better than the Gentile. Paul goes on to prove the Jews were sinners in v12 by saying "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Paul did NOT say they were BORN out of the way nor did he say they were BORN unprofitable but they have GONE and BECOME showing personal culpability in their own sinning and not how they were innately passively born.

Do you really imagine that Old Covenant Jews could be eternally saved by perfect obedience to the Law? If this is what you imagine your doctrine is far more confused than I realized. Old Covenant Jews were saved by the same Christ Who saves whosoever believes in Him. They had the Gospel preached to them in the same way New Covenant believers after the cross do. Only for them it was through the Law and Prophets. In the same manner we are saved since the cross and resurrection, so too Old Covenant Jews were saved by GRACE through FAITH if they believed the prophets, and the Law which both pointed them to the Messiah who was to come and save them. Without FAITH it matters not whether or not they were fully obedient to the whole Law of Moses, they still died in their sins without faith in Christ.

Hebrews 4:2-4 (KJV) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Romans 10:1-4 (KJV) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:12-21 (KJV) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

When Paul writes there are none righteous, not even one, he is writing of whosoever is conceived in sin; i.e. the whole human race!
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Do you really imagine that Old Covenant Jews could be eternally saved by perfect obedience to the Law? If this is what you imagine your doctrine is far more confused than I realized. Old Covenant Jews were saved by the same Christ Who saves whosoever believes in Him. They had the Gospel preached to them in the same way New Covenant believers after the cross do. Only for them it was through the Law and Prophets. In the same manner we are saved since the cross and resurrection, so too Old Covenant Jews were saved by GRACE through FAITH if they believed the prophets, and the Law which both pointed them to the Messiah who was to come and save them. Without FAITH it matters not whether or not they were fully obedient to the whole Law of Moses, they still died in their sins without faith in Christ.

Hebrews 4:2-4 (KJV) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Romans 10:1-4 (KJV) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:12-21 (KJV) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

When Paul writes there are none righteous, not even one, he is writing of whosoever is conceived in sin; i.e. the whole human race!
Romans chapter 1 Paul proves the Gentiles are sinners.

Romans chapter 2 Paul proves the Jews are sinners and therfore concludes that all, both Jew and Gentile, are under sin. In proving that all have sinned there would be no better place for Paul to say all are born sinners than in the context of Romans 1 and 2 yet no where in the context does Paul even remotely suggests the false teaching of original sin...not at all.

After proving both Gentile and Jews are under sin, then those who are under sin are in need of justification.

Paul spends the first half of Romans 3 telling us what cannot justify Gentile or Jew and that is the OT law that was given to the Jews. Having that law was an advantage to the Jew over the Gentile but that law cannot justfy for it required perfect, flawless law keeping which the Jew could not do leaving the Jew no better than the Gentile under sin. Paul goes on to prove that the Jew had sinned by quoting verses from the OT law that were pointed directly at the Jew proving the Jew was a sinner and no better than the Gentile. Nowhere in the context does Paul even remotley mention the false teaching of total depravity.

Paul speands the second half of Romans 3 showing there is anither way for Jew and Gentile to be justiefied apart from the OT law and its required flawless law keeping and that other way is by an obedient faith.

In Romans 4 Paul uses the example of two men the Jews would be very familiar with, Abraham and David, to demonstrate his point in Romans 3 that justification is not by the work of perfect flawless law keeping as required by the OT law but by an obedient faith. Paul then shows how neither were made righteous by the work of perfect flawless law keeping but both were righteous by having an obedient faith.

Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 4:5 is basically a summary of Rom 3 that showed perfect law keeping does not justify but and obedient faith. Abraham was one who "worketh not" meaning Abraham did not work to keep the law perfectly, flawless to find justification...he sinned. But rather Abraham "beleiveth" he had an obedient faith by which he was justified.

The first 4 chapters of Romans are easy to understand and there is no Calvinism to be found in any of it....no original sin can be found when Paul is proving all, Gentile and Jew, have sinned in Romans 1 or 2. No total depravity found in Romans 3 when Paul proves the Jews were sinners just as the Gentiles for no where did Paul even mention the idea of the Jews being born totally depraved. And in Romans 3 and 4 there is no faith onlyism to be found for the only kind of work Paul eliminates from justification is the work of perfect, flawless law keeping required by the OT law. Paul does show from Rom 4 to 6 that it is obedience to God's will that justifies.

Therefore having given the context of Romans 1-4 in that the work of perfect flawless law keeping could not justify but an obedient faith. Therefore in Rom 3 even though the Jew was given the OT law it could not justifiy the Jew for the Jew could no keep it perfectly. And in proving the Jews were sinners like the Gentiles Paul said of the Jews "none are righteous" Paul is using the term righeous in the absolute perfect sense in showing the Jew did not keep the law perfectly flawless therefore leaving the unjustified by the law and in need of justification as the Jew. We know that some men in the Bible as Abel and Abraham are said to be righeous they were not righteous in an absolute, perfect sense by keeping the law perfectly but were made righteous by an obedient faith.

So again, when Paul says none are righteous he means in the absolute, perfect sense for the Jew could not keep the OT law perfectly leaving them under sin as the Gentile.. This is why there is no contradiction when Paul said "none are righteous" yet Abel is called righteous for Paul is using the term 'righteous' in the perfect sense. Abel was not righteous by keeping God's law perfectly flawlessly but made righteous by an obedient faith.

Evidently you do not correctly undestand how Paul is using the phrase "none are righteousness'.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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If you cannot understand Genesis, how can you rightly understand what took place between the NT Covenant on the Cross and the thief next to Him?

Chickens first then eggs
You are avoiding Heb 9:16-17, Rom 3:3-6; Rom 10:9 that prove it is IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT salvation. Eggs and chickens have nothing to do with the issue of the thief not being under the NT law.
 

David in NJ

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You are avoiding Heb 9:16-17, Rom 3:3-6; Rom 10:9 that prove it is IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT salvation. Eggs and chickens have nothing to do with the issue of the thief not being under the NT law.

Unlike some on here, i believe and receive all of Scripture = Matt 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Heb ch9 fulfilled by His Death on the Cross

Romans 3:3-4

What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness?
Certainly not! Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written:
So that You may be proved right when You speak and victorious when You judge.”

i guess you do not believe the very Scripture that you present your case with = Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

All these Scriptures clearly demonstrated, BIG PICTURE SALVATION, with the Lord Jesus Christ and the thief who confessed with his heart and mouth unto NT Covenant Salavtion nailed to the Cross right next to him.

it is much easier to rejoice in the Truth then fight against it
 

Johann

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You are avoiding Heb 9:16-17, Rom 3:3-6; Rom 10:9 that prove it is IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT salvation. Eggs and chickens have nothing to do with the issue of the thief not being under the NT law.
You believe in Dispensationalism?
Verily. Truly. To day. Though just converted from a life of sin and blasphemy, this man did not
have to wait until after ages of purgatory or unconsciousness but immediately upon his death joined
Christ in glory.

So the penitent thief was next to Messiah, and WITH Christ, that very same day. This is the death, and RESURRECTION of our blessed Lord and great God, Christ Jesus.

paradise. A word for a beautiful garden, used here of the heavenly realm where
pardoned souls are gathered after death like a return to the garden of Eden (2 Cor. 12:4; Rev. 2:7; cf.
Rev. 22:1–3).

Verily I say unto thee, today thou shall be with me in paradise; בגן עדן, "in the garden of Eden"; not the earthly paradise, nor the church militant, but the future place, and state of the happiness of the saints, even heaven, and eternal glory, which the Jews frequently call by this name; See Gill on 2Co_12:4 and is so called, because, as the earthly paradise, or Eden's garden, was of God's planting, so is the heavenly glory of his providing and preparing: as that was a place of delight and pleasure, so here are pleasures for evermore; as there was a river in it, which added to the delightfulness and advantage of it, so here runs the river of God's love, the streams whereof make glad the saints now, and will be a broad river to swim in to all eternity: as there were the tree of life, with a variety of other trees, both for delight and profit, so here, besides Christ, the tree of life, which stands in the midst of it, are an innumerable company of angels, and the spirits of just men made perfect: and as the inhabitants of that garden were pure and innocent creatures, so into this paradise shall nothing enter but what is righteous, pure, and holy: and whereas the principal enjoyment of man in Eden was conversation with God, and communion with him, the glory of the heavenly paradise will lie in fellowship with God, Father, Son, and Spirit, in beholding the face of God, and seeing him as he is:


and this is the happiness promised by Christ to the penitent and believing thief, that he should be here; and not only so, but with him here, which is far better than being in this world, and than which nothing can be more desirable: and which, when enjoyed, will be for ever: and this he was to enter upon that very day; which shows, that Christ's soul did not descend into hell, locally and literally considered, or into the "Limbus Patrum", the Papists talk of, to fetch the souls of the patriarchs thence, but as soon as it was separated from the body was taken up into heaven;


and also, that the souls of departed saints are immediately, upon their separation from the body, there; which was the case of this wonderful instance of the grace of God; and shows the swiftness of the soul, or the velocity of angels in conveying it thither immediately: and this agrees with the sense of the Jews, who say

(b), that
"the souls of the fathers, or patriarchs have rest, and in a moment, immediately enter into their separate places, or apartments, and not as the rest of the souls; of whom it is said, all the twelve months the soul ascends and descends, (goes to and fro,) but the souls of the fathers, מיד בהפרדן, "immediately, upon their separation", return to God that gave them.''


Some would remove the stop, and place it after "today", and read the words thus, "I say unto thee today"; as if Christ only signified the time when he said this, and not when the thief should be with him in paradise; which, besides it being senseless, and impertinent, and only contrived to serve an hypothesis, is not agreeably to Christ's usual way of speaking, and contrary to all copies and versions.



Moreover, in one of Beza's exemplars it is read, "I say unto thee, οτι σημερον that today thou shalt be with me", &c. and so the Persic and Ethiopic versions seem to read, which destroys this silly criticism. And because this was a matter of great importance, and an instance of amazing grace, that so vile a sinner, one of the chief of sinners, should immediately enter into the kingdom of God, and enjoy uninterrupted, and everlasting communion with him and that it might not be a matter of doubt with him, or others, Christ, who is the "Amen", the faithful witness, and truth itself, prefaces it after this manner: "verily I say unto thee"; it is truth, it may be depended on. This instance of grace stands on record, not to cherish sloth, indolence, security and presumption, but to encourage faith and hope in sensible sinners, in their last moments, and prevent despair. The Papists pretend to know this man's name; they say his name was Disma; and reckon him as a martyr, and have put him in the catalogue of saints, and fixed him on the "twenty fifth" of March.

(The story of the penitent thief has sometimes been considered the most surprising, the most suggestive, the most instructive incident in all the Gospel narrative. ... In the salvation of one of the thieves

Sacrementalism was refuted,for the thief was saved without recourse to baptism, the Lord's Supper, church, ceremony, or good works.


The dogma of purgatory was refuted, for this vile sinner was instantly transformed into a saint and made fit for paradise apart from his personal expiation of a single sin.

The teaching of universalism was refuted, for only one was saved of all who might have been saved. Jesus did not say, "Today shall ye be with me in paradise", but "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

The notion of soul-sleep was refuted, for the clear implication of the entire incident is that the redeemed thief would be in conscious fellowship with his Saviour in paradise even while his body disintegrated in some grave.

Too, it is doubtful whether any other gospel incident presents the plan of salvation more clearly or simply.--Dr. Charles R. Erdman)
(b) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 58. 4.
Gill.

Some wonderful nuggets to be found, everywhere, IF we are willing to look.
 
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Johann

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You believe in Dispensationalism?
Verily. Truly. To day. Though just converted from a life of sin and blasphemy, this man did not
have to wait until after ages of purgatory or unconsciousness but immediately upon his death joined
Christ in glory.

So the penitent thief was next to Messiah, and WITH Christ, that very same day. This is the death, and RESURRECTION of our blessed Lord and great God, Christ Jesus.

paradise. A word for a beautiful garden, used here of the heavenly realm where
pardoned souls are gathered after death like a return to the garden of Eden (2 Cor. 12:4; Rev. 2:7; cf.
Rev. 22:1–3).

Verily I say unto thee, today thou shall be with me in paradise; בגן עדן, "in the garden of Eden"; not the earthly paradise, nor the church militant, but the future place, and state of the happiness of the saints, even heaven, and eternal glory, which the Jews frequently call by this name; See Gill on 2Co_12:4 and is so called, because, as the earthly paradise, or Eden's garden, was of God's planting, so is the heavenly glory of his providing and preparing: as that was a place of delight and pleasure, so here are pleasures for evermore; as there was a river in it, which added to the delightfulness and advantage of it, so here runs the river of God's love, the streams whereof make glad the saints now, and will be a broad river to swim in to all eternity: as there were the tree of life, with a variety of other trees, both for delight and profit, so here, besides Christ, the tree of life, which stands in the midst of it, are an innumerable company of angels, and the spirits of just men made perfect: and as the inhabitants of that garden were pure and innocent creatures, so into this paradise shall nothing enter but what is righteous, pure, and holy: and whereas the principal enjoyment of man in Eden was conversation with God, and communion with him, the glory of the heavenly paradise will lie in fellowship with God, Father, Son, and Spirit, in beholding the face of God, and seeing him as he is:


and this is the happiness promised by Christ to the penitent and believing thief, that he should be here; and not only so, but with him here, which is far better than being in this world, and than which nothing can be more desirable: and which, when enjoyed, will be for ever: and this he was to enter upon that very day; which shows, that Christ's soul did not descend into hell, locally and literally considered, or into the "Limbus Patrum", the Papists talk of, to fetch the souls of the patriarchs thence, but as soon as it was separated from the body was taken up into heaven;


and also, that the souls of departed saints are immediately, upon their separation from the body, there; which was the case of this wonderful instance of the grace of God; and shows the swiftness of the soul, or the velocity of angels in conveying it thither immediately: and this agrees with the sense of the Jews, who say

(b), that
"the souls of the fathers, or patriarchs have rest, and in a moment, immediately enter into their separate places, or apartments, and not as the rest of the souls; of whom it is said, all the twelve months the soul ascends and descends, (goes to and fro,) but the souls of the fathers, מיד בהפרדן, "immediately, upon their separation", return to God that gave them.''


Some would remove the stop, and place it after "today", and read the words thus, "I say unto thee today"; as if Christ only signified the time when he said this, and not when the thief should be with him in paradise; which, besides it being senseless, and impertinent, and only contrived to serve an hypothesis, is not agreeably to Christ's usual way of speaking, and contrary to all copies and versions.



Moreover, in one of Beza's exemplars it is read, "I say unto thee, οτι σημερον that today thou shalt be with me", &c. and so the Persic and Ethiopic versions seem to read, which destroys this silly criticism. And because this was a matter of great importance, and an instance of amazing grace, that so vile a sinner, one of the chief of sinners, should immediately enter into the kingdom of God, and enjoy uninterrupted, and everlasting communion with him and that it might not be a matter of doubt with him, or others, Christ, who is the "Amen", the faithful witness, and truth itself, prefaces it after this manner: "verily I say unto thee"; it is truth, it may be depended on. This instance of grace stands on record, not to cherish sloth, indolence, security and presumption, but to encourage faith and hope in sensible sinners, in their last moments, and prevent despair. The Papists pretend to know this man's name; they say his name was Disma; and reckon him as a martyr, and have put him in the catalogue of saints, and fixed him on the "twenty fifth" of March.

(The story of the penitent thief has sometimes been considered the most surprising, the most suggestive, the most instructive incident in all the Gospel narrative. ... In the salvation of one of the thieves

Sacrementalism was refuted,for the thief was saved without recourse to baptism, the Lord's Supper, church, ceremony, or good works.


The dogma of purgatory was refuted, for this vile sinner was instantly transformed into a saint and made fit for paradise apart from his personal expiation of a single sin.

The teaching of universalism was refuted, for only one was saved of all who might have been saved. Jesus did not say, "Today shall ye be with me in paradise", but "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

The notion of soul-sleep was refuted, for the clear implication of the entire incident is that the redeemed thief would be in conscious fellowship with his Saviour in paradise even while his body disintegrated in some grave.

Too, it is doubtful whether any other gospel incident presents the plan of salvation more clearly or simply.--Dr. Charles R. Erdman)
(b) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 58. 4.
Gill.

Some wonderful nuggets to be found, everywhere, IF we are willing to look.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 

rwb

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Paul speands the second half of Romans 3 showing there is anither way for Jew and Gentile to be justiefied apart from the OT law and its required flawless law keeping and that other way is by an obedient faith.

The OT Law was never given to justify anyone! Even if they could have kept the Law flawlessly, without faith, that is to believe in the Messiah who was to come, none could be justified through the Law. Because obedience to the Law is WORK, and no man has ever been eternally saved by his/her works!

Galatians 3:21-26 (KJV) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:1-4 (KJV) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Hebrews 10:10-12 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Romans 2:23-29 (KJV) Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

As you have well stated, no Old Covenant Jew could attain perfect righteousness even if they could have kept the Law perfectly! What was required for them to be justified before God? Obedience to the Law of Moses according to GRACE through FAITH. They, like we must believe Christ to be eternally saved. Without FAITH, that comes by hearing the Word (Gospel) the Law had no power to make them righteous before God. Just as our good works have no power to make us righteous before God apart from FAITH! Salvation has ALWAYS been according to GRACE through FAITH whether Old Covenant Jew/Gentile or New Covenant Jew/Gentile, without FAITH no man will be eternally saved. And the FAITH that eternally saves fallen man comes by hearing according to God's GRACE!

Romans 10:12-18 (KJV) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

The Jews of Old heard of the Messiah who was to come to redeem them from death, even Abraham heard the Gospel and believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Whether Old Testament Jew or New Testament Jew/Gentile "the just shall live by faith"....the Law was never able to justify Jews without being accompanied by FAITH in Christ!

Galatians 3:6-11 (KJV) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Why cannot mankind be justified by good works? Because even our good works are tainted by sin, and each and every human being is under the curse of death. It's not that we are not called to obedience, it's simply saying our obedience will not make us clean and righteous before God. Because since the fall in the garden every human is born under the curse of sin and death! It matters NOT whether you believe this or not, the Bible is very clear that no man shall have everlasting life through Christ without God's GRACE through FAITH, the gift of God that no man may boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 3:24-26 (KJV) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (KJV) But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24-25 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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No.
Sacrementalism was refuted,for the thief was saved without recourse to baptism, the Lord's Supper, church, ceremony, or good works.
Where does the Bible definitively state the thief was never baptized? It does not!!! Therefore the "thief argument" against the necessaity of water baptism fails, one reason it fails is it is based upon the ASSUMPTION the theif was never baptized.
The dogma of purgatory was refuted, for this vile sinner was instantly transformed into a saint and made fit for paradise apart from his personal expiation of a single sin.
I don't believe in the idea of purgatory.
The teaching of universalism was refuted, for only one was saved of all who might have been saved. Jesus did not say, "Today shall ye be with me in paradise", but "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
I don't believe in Universalism.
The notion of soul-sleep was refuted, for the clear implication of the entire incident is that the redeemed thief would be in conscious fellowship with his Saviour in paradise even while his body disintegrated in some grave.
I don't believe in 'soul sleep'.
Too, it is doubtful whether any other gospel incident presents the plan of salvation more clearly or simply.--Dr. Charles R. Erdman)
(b) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 58. 4.
Gill.

Some wonderful nuggets to be found, everywhere, IF we are willing to look.
Has DR Erdman ever read Heb 9:15-17?? Seems the Doctor and some on this forum want to over look the facts of these verses which make it IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT salvation.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth
.

The simple facts are when Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise Christ was STILL ALIVE. A testament is of force AFTER men are dead meaning Christ's NT was not, could not be in force until some point AFTER Christ died for a testament is of NO FORCE while the testator liveth. Again, the simple fact of this is the NT plan of salvation was NOT in effect at the time Christ as Dr Erdman FASLELY claims. Since Christ was STILL ALIVE the thief could not follow the NT plan of salvation per Acts 2:38; Rom 10:9 or Rom 6:3-5.

Water baptism for us today who are under the NT is a command therefore must be obeyed per Acts 2:38. The thief was not ameanable to Acts 2:38. All who are saved under the NT are saved in a like manner way, Acts 15:11. You cannot have some people commanded to be water baptized to be saved and others not for if it is commanded and necessary for one then it is commanded to and necessary for all. Theregore is a logical contradiction, discrepancy in the NT plan of salvation that you are creating.

The "thief argument" against the necessity of water baptism fails on many levels. Why do people still try and used an obviously invalid, illiogial argument to try and get around the necessity of water baptism? But then again, ALL arguments against the necessity of water baptism have no vailid, Biblical basis.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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Unlike some on here, i believe and receive all of Scripture = Matt 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Heb ch9 fulfilled by His Death on the Cross

Romans 3:3-4

What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness?
Certainly not! Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written:
So that You may be proved right when You speak and victorious when You judge.”

i guess you do not believe the very Scripture that you present your case with = Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

All these Scriptures clearly demonstrated, BIG PICTURE SALVATION, with the Lord Jesus Christ and the thief who confessed with his heart and mouth unto NT Covenant Salavtion nailed to the Cross right next to him.

it is much easier to rejoice in the Truth then fight against it
You are NOT taking into account Heb 9:15-17 which makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT gospel salvation.

Rom 10:9 is a NT requirement that the theif could not do along with Rom 6:3-6 since Christ had not died nor resurrected from the dead at the time the thief was promised to be in paradise 2) Rom 10:9 is not the only salvific verse. There are dozens and dozens of salvific verses and ALL of them must be taken into consideration to have the full plan of salvation. Rom 10: does not mention repentnace. Does that mean repentnace is not necesary to being saved? No, Lk 13:3; Rom 2:4-5.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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The OT Law was never given to justify anyone! Even if they could have kept the Law flawlessly, without faith, that is to believe in the Messiah who was to come, none could be justified through the Law. Because obedience to the Law is WORK, and no man has ever been eternally saved by his/her works!

I posted that Rom 1 and 2 Paul concluded that all, Jew and Gentile, are under sin and those under sin are in need of justification. And Paul spends the first half of Rom 3 showing the OT law could not justify for it requires perfect flawless law keeping. Then Paul spends the last half of Rom 3 showing that faith, NOT faith ALONE, can justify Jew and Gentile.

So the facts given in Romans chapters 1-6 is the only work Paul in these chapters elominate from justifiy Jew or Gentile is the work of flawless law keeping as required by a law as the OT law. NOWHERE EVER did Paul eliminate a faithful obedience from justification for Paul requires obedience in Rom 6:16-18 to be justified/freed from sin. NOWHERE EVER is obedience to God called a work of merit. God commanded men to be water baptized therefore no one can take a Divine command as water baptiem and try and change it to a man-made work of merit.


Galatians 3:21-26 (KJV) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:1-4 (KJV) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Hebrews 10:10-12 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Romans 2:23-29 (KJV) Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

As you have well stated, no Old Covenant Jew could attain perfect righteousness even if they could have kept the Law perfectly! What was required for them to be justified before God? Obedience to the Law of Moses according to GRACE through FAITH. They, like we must believe Christ to be eternally saved. Without FAITH, that comes by hearing the Word (Gospel) the Law had no power to make them righteous before God. Just as our good works have no power to make us righteous before God apart from FAITH! Salvation has ALWAYS been according to GRACE through FAITH whether Old Covenant Jew/Gentile or New Covenant Jew/Gentile, without FAITH no man will be eternally saved. And the FAITH that eternally saves fallen man comes by hearing according to God's GRACE!
Justification cannot be attained by perfect flawless works as required by the OT. But justification can be attained by an obedient faith. That is the contrast Paul is making in Rom 3. Therefore in Rom 3:28 when Paul writes "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." he is making a contrast between an obedient faith that can justifiy andthose perfect flawless deeds as required by the OT law that cannot justify.

I have NEVER said good works can make one righteous before God, but have said over and over OBEDIENCE to God's will is what makes one righteous before God..Paul said in Rom 6:16 "obedience unto righteousness". Paul NEVER said "good works unto righteousness", Paul NEVER said 'faith only unto righteousness".
Paul said those Romans had "obeyed from the heart" then they were freed from sin. Paul NEVER said those Romans had faith only that freed them from sin. Paul NEVER said good works frees one from sin. Again, you cannot take Divine commands and try and change them to man-made good works done to try and merit salvation. Therefore the TYPE of faith that justifies per James is the type of faith that includes obedience to Divine commands for no one will ever be saved while continuing to live in disobedience, rebellion to those Divine commands.
Romans 10:12-18 (KJV) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

The Jews of Old heard of the Messiah who was to come to redeem them from death, even Abraham heard the Gospel and believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Whether Old Testament Jew or New Testament Jew/Gentile "the just shall live by faith"....the Law was never able to justify Jews without being accompanied by FAITH in Christ!
False teachers led some Christians in Galatia away from the NT back to the OT law whereby those Galatians were trying to be justified by keeping that OT law. This is why Paul told them "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" for that OT law required perfect law keeping in ALL things which they could not do. Since they could keep that OT law perfectly, Paul concludes "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God" since no man could keep ALL things perfectly. But Paul says "The just shall live by faith." Again, Paul is making a contrast between being the OT law that required perfect law keeping that cannot justify one in the sight of God versus an obedient faith that does justify one. Again, nowhere ever does Paul eliminate obedience from justification....the type of work Paul does eliminate from justification is the work of perfect, flawless law keeping as required by the OT law.
 

Taken

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Please read the Bible verses and then answer the multiple choice questions.

Question: What did Jesus say in Mark 16:15-16?

Mark 16:15-16,
-And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Did Jesus say?

a) he that does not believe and is not baptized will be saved...
b) he that believes and is saved will then be baptized...
c) he that believes and is baptized will be saved...
d) he that does not believe but is baptized will be saved....



If you answered c)
Correct
You might be an alien sinner who is searching for the truth.

If you answered c)
Correct
You might be a Bible believing christian.

Mark 16:
[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(c) he that believes and is baptized will be saved...

** The Answer is INCOMPLETE, lacking FULL context.

* The Disciples / Apostles were being TAUGHT by JESUS, face to face.
* CONTEXT....Jesus was present ON Earth.
* CONTEXT....SHALL BE SAVED....IF...one believes and IS baptized.
* CONTEXT...WHAT BAPTISM ?
* CONTEXT....SAVED WHEN ?

* POINT...Preach the Gospel
* POINT...Gospel preaching is Baptism of the Holy Spirit
* POINT...Baptism of the Holy Spirit DID NOT OCCUR while Jesus was PRESENT ON EARTH.
* POINT...Gospel preaching...to SATISIFY the “IF” condition.
BELIEVE in one’s HEART...(not about Mindful belief)
* POINT...CONFESSION of BELIEF in one’s HEART, (individuals own Word)
* POINT...RECEIPT of Holy Spirit Baptism.
* POINT...Holy Spirit Baptism is ONLY performed BY the Lord God.
* POINT...Water Baptism is ONLY performed BY earthly men.

* SHALL BE...? Or EVER...IS...?
* Preaching...SHALL BE, was TRUE, since Jesus was still present ON Earth.
* Preaching...SHALL BE, was TRUE, since a BODILY DEATH is “required”
....BEFORE the Holy Spirit CAN “RE-BIRTH” a mans old natural spirit, (with Gods SEED), of a new born again spirit.


* Gospel PREACHING......MYSTERY...(not yet EFFECTED, when Jesus was face to face, Speaking to His DISCIPLES).

* Gospel PREACHING....JESUS’ BODILY DEATH...(would BE sufficient)...in ANY mans STEAD....IF the individual man CONFESSED his heartful BELIEF...
IN God.....AND....that JESUS “IS” the Christ Messiah.

MYSTERY... WOULD BE SAVED....YES.
MYSTERY... WOULD BE “ACCOUNTED” SAVED...YES
MYSTERY... “IS” SAVED...YES

Would BE....is a PROMISE of Salvation of one’s SOUL and a PROMISE of one’s spirit TO BE (given Gods Seed), ie born-again, ie Baptism of the Holy Spirit.(FOR a mans CONFESSION...and the mans PROMISE of “voluntarily giving his bodily life unto DEATH, as a TESTAMENT of his word of heartful Belief)

Accounted...is NOTICE THAT....Salvation / Holy Spirit Baptism, IS RECORDED IN the “Lambs Book Life”...with THAT mans NAME.

IS
SAVED...is NOTICE (while a man’s BODY is still mortally LIVING)...
....(so to speak)—->
....The “paperwork”is Already Accomplished, Sealed, Kept by Christ Jesus.

NOTICE...The Confession of the mans Heartful Confession, IS Accepted.
NOTICE...The Promise of that mans BODY at the time of Physical Death, IS Accepted.....AND WHEN...the man’s DEAD BODY is manifested.
(Ie Mans PROMISE fulfilled...Gods PROMISE fulfilled)
NOTICE...** THAT man IS GIVEN...CHRIST JESUS’ RISEN BODY...
.........................TO DWELL WITH-IN..........................

NOTICE...** THAT man
IS SAVED, accounted a manifested new creature...
Long BEFORE, his physical DEATH is manifested.


THAT “new creature”, IS a “spiritual” creature both, “invisible to himself AND other earthly men”.

THAT “new bodily creature”, SHALL become “MADE” visible, (to himself, to other MADE born again creatures) ON the day, that creatures (body) IS Risen UP, from it’s earthen grave.

THAT “saved soul”, SHALL become “MADE” visible, (to himself, to other MADE saved souls) ON the day, that mortal body dies, and that living soul departs that mortally dead body, and rises up to Heaven.

Just saying......in context....shall be saved...is saved...are EACH possible according to the Gospel.
 

David in NJ

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You are NOT taking into account Heb 9:15-17 which makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT gospel salvation.

Rom 10:9 is a NT requirement that the theif could not do along with Rom 6:3-6 since Christ had not died nor resurrected from the dead at the time the thief was promised to be in paradise 2) Rom 10:9 is not the only salvific verse. There are dozens and dozens of salvific verses and ALL of them must be taken into consideration to have the full plan of salvation. Rom 10: does not mention repentnace. Does that mean repentnace is not necesary to being saved? No, Lk 13:3; Rom 2:4-5.
i SEE exactly what Romans says.

#1 Jesus is the One we confess to for Salvation
#2 Thief has NT confession of faith = "i deserve death for my sins" AND "this Man(Jesus) has done nothing wrong"
#3 Dead men have no Kingdom
#4 Thief believes unto Eternal Life thru Jesus the Messiah = "remember me when you enter into your Kingdom"
#5 Jesus has power on earth to forgive sins BEFORE the Cross
#6 Jesus has fulfilled ALL, was ripped open (Isaiah) and is FULLY NAILED to the CROSS with NT BLOOD pouring Out for the world.

And now for the PERFECT 7

#7 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;


Chickens before eggs
 
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Taken

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You are NOT taking into account Heb 9:15-17 which makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT gospel salvation.

Rom 10:9 is a NT requirement that the theif could not do along with Rom 6:3-6 since Christ had not died nor resurrected from the dead at the time the thief was promised to be in paradise 2) Rom 10:9 is not the only salvific verse. There are dozens and dozens of salvific verses and ALL of them must be taken into consideration to have the full plan of salvation. Rom 10: does not mention repentnace. Does that mean repentnace is not necesary to being saved? No, Lk 13:3; Rom 2:4-5.


The Thief IS an example of PROMISED Salvation...would BE Accomplished THAT DAY.

Saul IS an example of PROMISED Salvation....would BE Accomplished unto Paul.

Disbelief, IN God....is being AGAINST God.
Disbelief, IN Jesus IS the Christ....is being AGAINST Jesus.

Confession of True Heartful Belief, OVERCOMES, the Disbelief.
True Belief, is by, through, of....a mans expressed Word.
True Belief, Accepted by the Lord God....is responded by the Lord God, with Forgiveness.

(examples....the Thief, Saul....BOTH spoke directly to Lord Jesus...of THEIR Belief...Repentance accomplished/ accepted...Forgiveness Given).

Thief, acknowledges Lord Jesus is God, Lord Jesus is without wrong doing, Lord Jesus IS King, and this Thief desires to BE in the Lord Gods Remembrance.

Luke 23:
[40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
[41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Acts: 9:
[1] And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
[2] And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
[3] And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
[4] And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Saul’s acknowledgement and submission...
Acts 9:
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 13:
[9] Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him...

A man Acknowledging the Lord God, is Acknowledging his belief.
God searches the mans heart, that his confession be true...or not.
TRUE? The man receives forgiveness for having HAD not believed.
 
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Taken

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i SEE exactly what Romans says.

#1. Jesus is the One we confess to for Salvation
#2. Thief has NT confession of faith = "i deserve death for my sins" AND "this man has done nothing wrong"
#3 Dead men have no Kingdom
#4 Thief believes unto Eternal Life thru Jesus = "remember me when you enter into your Kingdom"
#5 Jesus has power on earth to forgive sins BEFORE the Cross
#6 Jesus has fulfilled ALL, was ripped open (Isaiah) and is FULLY NAILED to the CROSS with NT BLOOD pouring Out for the world.



Yes.


And now for the PERFECT 7

#7 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;

There are men who DO NOT believe, and have ZERO interest TO consider or desire to Believe.

There are men who WANT to believe, but do not, and do not KNOW WHY or HOW. <—-> This is a man IMO, whom the Lord CAN and WILL draw unto Him.

The HOW in many cases IMO, seem to be a Puzzlement...
The HOW is to Hear the Word of God, which begins Gods measured giving of Faith...

The Puzzlement...a newbie GOES TO CHURCH...to Hear...
NO ONE emphasizes to him the BASICS...”VERIFY with Scripture what you HEAR, that it BE TRUE”.
TRUE? Continue listening to THAT preacher, Continue Verifying.
NOT TRUE? Don’t Believe, try another Peacher, Study group. A source that Parallels Scripture.

MANY do NOT “verify” what they hear taught, preached by Clerics.

Beware of False Preachers....And KNOW HOW to discover IF they ARE a false preacher.

Frustrated? IF you ASK the Lord...The Lord WILL HEAR your prayers and PUT IN YOUR PATH, draw you to a TRUE Word of God teacher, preacher.

Glory to God,
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David in NJ

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Yes.




There are men who DO NOT believe, and have ZERO interest TO consider or desire to Believe.

There are men who WANT to believe, but do not, and do not KNOW WHY or HOW. <—-> This is a man IMO, whom the Lord CAN and WILL draw unto Him.

The HOW in many cases IMO, seem to be a Puzzlement...
The HOW is to Hear the Word of God, which begins Gods measured giving of Faith...

The Puzzlement...a newbie GOES TO CHURCH...to Hear...
NO ONE emphasizes to him the BASICS...”VERIFY with Scripture what you HEAR, that it BE TRUE”.
TRUE? Continue listening to THAT preacher, Continue Verifying.
NOT TRUE? Don’t Believe, try another Peacher, Study group. A source that Parallels Scripture.

MANY do NOT “verify” what they hear taught, preached by Clerics.

Beware of False Preachers....And KNOW HOW to discover IF they ARE a false preacher.

Frustrated? IF you ASK the Lord...The Lord WILL HEAR your prayers and PUT IN YOUR PATH, draw you to a TRUE Word of God teacher, preacher.

Glory to God,
Taken
Unfortunately, and this is a Great Loss of FORTUNE, many churches do not have the Anointing and they are left with reliance on the intellect.
Intellectual preaching only permits you so far and causes a lot of confusion.

"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth." - 1 John 2:20-21

The Anointed Believer in Christ is the HIGHEST Calling and Gifting desired by God for every one of us.
It is what satan fears the most and why he so loves religion to keep us away from that Most Precious Promise from the Father = John/Acts

Peace
 

David in NJ

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Jul 20, 2021
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Yes.




There are men who DO NOT believe, and have ZERO interest TO consider or desire to Believe.

There are men who WANT to believe, but do not, and do not KNOW WHY or HOW. <—-> This is a man IMO, whom the Lord CAN and WILL draw unto Him.

The HOW in many cases IMO, seem to be a Puzzlement...
The HOW is to Hear the Word of God, which begins Gods measured giving of Faith...

The Puzzlement...a newbie GOES TO CHURCH...to Hear...
NO ONE emphasizes to him the BASICS...”VERIFY with Scripture what you HEAR, that it BE TRUE”.
TRUE? Continue listening to THAT preacher, Continue Verifying.
NOT TRUE? Don’t Believe, try another Peacher, Study group. A source that Parallels Scripture.

MANY do NOT “verify” what they hear taught, preached by Clerics.

Beware of False Preachers....And KNOW HOW to discover IF they ARE a false preacher.

Frustrated? IF you ASK the Lord...The Lord WILL HEAR your prayers and PUT IN YOUR PATH, draw you to a TRUE Word of God teacher, preacher.

Glory to God,
Taken
You said: NO ONE emphasizes to him the BASICS...”VERIFY with Scripture what you HEAR, that it BE TRUE”.

This continues on every 'Christian' forum mainly because of this: 1 Cor 1:10-13 = the trap of 'respect of persons'
 

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You said: NO ONE emphasizes to him the BASICS...”VERIFY with Scripture what you HEAR, that it BE TRUE”.

This continues on every 'Christian' forum mainly because of this: 1 Cor 1:10-13 = the trap of 'respect of persons'

There is that “thingy”.... “the side-kick books”...”Books, Commentaries, designed TO TELL people what AN OTHER person has decided what Gods word MEANS”.

The Catholic “Catechism”, IS the Catholic “go to book”, for Catholics to LEARN that Churches, devised by Men, for Catholics to “understand” the Word of God, According to other men.
( No need to read, study Scripture and wait around for God to tell you what HE means...!) Pfff!

Several Online Bible sites, give commentaries, name the author, of HIS OWN, conclusion of Understanding Gods Word...take it or leave it.


Of course people want to KNOW what scripture means....It’s the cart before the horse syndrome....prove to me what it means...THEN “maybe” I’ll believe it.

God Resolved that issue.
1) Preach the KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God.
2) No need to depend on what AN OTHER thinks the Word of God “MEANS”...
3)It is God Himself who will GIVE individuals UNDERSTANDING of Gods KNOWLEDGE of His Word, According TO: Gods Understanding....not men.

The Kicker...
Gods Understanding is NOT Given to men WHO do not believe IN God.

2 Tim 2:
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.


Glory to God,
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