A Test Of Reading Comprehension and Honesty
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
To the contrary, the thief on the cross next to the LORD on His Cross is the Perfect Picture of NT Salvation = PERFECT
The reasons I gave in previous posts of mine show it is IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT salvation. See my post number 94.
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People are judged by the law under which they live. People who live in the US are not judged by the laws of China. How can Abraham be judge by the laws of the NT when he never lived under the NT laws therefore not ameanable to the NT laws? How can I be judged by the OT law that I did not live under? Would I be judged to be lost for not keeping those OT laws in offering animal sacrifices, purifications, pilgrimages to Jerusalem, etc, etc?
Saint means a godly person, a holy one, a faithful one. There were faithful, godly people who lived under the OT as there were ones who lived under the NT law.
Why put words in my mouth I did not say??????
There will be people under the OT law will be saved as there will be those under the NT law that will be saved. The difference is they will not be judged the same way for they lived under different laws.
So whats the point of the question , beyond reading comprehension , as anyone can see that which is clearly written ?
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It is the Holy Spirit who gives fallen man the ability to believe through the Gospel. Whosoever believes to the saving of his soul believes through the power of God. That man who hears the Gospel according to grace through faith is counted as righteous before God. Man is saved by GRACE through FAITH (believing) ALONE! If fallen mankind is required to muster up faith apart from the Holy Spirit then man would be able to boast that his faith is what saved him. Christ through His Spirit makes alive those who were dead in trespasses and sins. He MUST because none are righteous, and man's unrighteousness deeds are considered but dung to God.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:4-9 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.Once man is regenerated through the power of God, they are called to work OUT his salvation, not to work FOR his salvation. Because saving faith working through man is the work of God in us.
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
In righteousness God is pleased with our WORK of FAITH and labor of love toward Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV) Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (KJV) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
And thus these words from our LORD when asked, "who can be saved?"It is the Holy Spirit who gives fallen man the ability to believe through the Gospel. Whosoever believes to the saving of his soul believes through the power of God. That man who hears the Gospel according to grace through faith is counted as righteous before God. Man is saved by GRACE through FAITH (believing) ALONE! If fallen mankind is required to muster up faith apart from the Holy Spirit then man would be able to boast that his faith is what saved him. Christ through His Spirit makes alive those who were dead in trespasses and sins. He MUST because none are righteous, and man's unrighteousness deeds are considered but dung to God.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:4-9 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Once man is regenerated through the power of God, they are called to work OUT his salvation, not to work FOR his salvation. Because saving faith working through man is the work of God in us.
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
In righteousness God is pleased with our WORK of FAITH and labor of love toward Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV) Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (KJV) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
Johann
Well-Known Member
Sure glad the mention of grace, and this is an excellent post.It is the Holy Spirit who gives fallen man the ability to believe through the Gospel. Whosoever believes to the saving of his soul believes through the power of God. That man who hears the Gospel according to grace through faith is counted as righteous before God. Man is saved by GRACE through FAITH (believing) ALONE! If fallen mankind is required to muster up faith apart from the Holy Spirit then man would be able to boast that his faith is what saved him. Christ through His Spirit makes alive those who were dead in trespasses and sins. He MUST because none are righteous, and man's unrighteousness deeds are considered but dung to God.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:4-9 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Once man is regenerated through the power of God, they are called to work OUT his salvation, not to work FOR his salvation. Because saving faith working through man is the work of God in us.
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
In righteousness God is pleased with our WORK of FAITH and labor of love toward Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV) Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (KJV) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Also...
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
----Rom 10:17 faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible. Therefore the Holy Spirit through His written word when heard by man, man develops faith in his heart (Rom 10:9). Since any man is able to believe upon hearing the word, then man believing in his heart is nothing to boast about. If one can have faith only if it is given to him by God, then that makes God culpable for the faithless, it makes God a respecter of persons as to whom He gives faith to and withholds faith from and those who are given faith can boast that they were given faith while others were not.It is the Holy Spirit who gives fallen man the ability to believe through the Gospel. Whosoever believes to the saving of his soul believes through the power of God. That man who hears the Gospel according to grace through faith is counted as righteous before God. Man is saved by GRACE through FAITH (believing) ALONE! If fallen mankind is required to muster up faith apart from the Holy Spirit then man would be able to boast that his faith is what saved him. Christ through His Spirit makes alive those who were dead in trespasses and sins. He MUST because none are righteous, and man's unrighteousness deeds are considered but dung to God.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:4-9 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Once man is regenerated through the power of God, they are called to work OUT his salvation, not to work FOR his salvation. Because saving faith working through man is the work of God in us.
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
In righteousness God is pleased with our WORK of FAITH and labor of love toward Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV) Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV) Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 (KJV) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
----Faith/belief is a work per Jn 6:27-29, it's a work God has given man to do.
---Belief alone does not save for all the belief alone can never save an impenitent person, Lk 13:3.
---- If a man must first be "regenerated" by God before he can be saved, then that makes God culpable for the lost. It would make God a respecter of persons as to whom He 'regenerates' and does not.
----Abel was righteous, Heb 11:4. Obviously when Paul said 'none are righteous' he was using the term righteous in an absolute, perfect sense.
---Those Jews in Acts 2 Peter preached to were lost. They were not totally depraved for they were willing to hear Peter's sermon, able to understand it and obey it all while lost. It was by preaching of God's word and those Jews hearing it preached they developed faith in their heart and put that faith in action by obeying Peter's command to repent and be baptized in order to be saved. Nowhere in any of this did God/Holy Spirit need to "regenerate" those Jews before they could be saved nor capriciously, unconditionally, miraculously inject faith into some of them apart from them hearing the word.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You have me lol x10000000000000000 on your IMPOSSIBLE
The thief (who repented and believed) on his cross next to the NT COVENANT on HIS Cross is a PICTURE PERFECT Message of NT SALVATION thru the POWER of GOD called GRACE & TRUTH thru Jesus Christ
You accept man-made theologies in place of Bible facts.
Heb 9:16-17
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Christ's NT would not come in effect until some point AFTER He died...For a testament is of force after men are dead. Yet Christ was still alive when He promised the thief he would be in paradise and while Christ was still alive His NT could NOT be in effect for a testiment ... is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT gospel salvation. Furthermore, the NT requires one to be baptized into the death of Christ (for Christ shed His blood in His death that washes away sins) before one can walk in newness of life, be born again. It also requires one believe in his heart that God "hath raised" (past tense) Christ from the dead. Again, when Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise Christ had not yet died much less been raised from the dead whereby His NT could NOT be in effect thereby making it IMPOSSIBLE for the thief to be an example of NT salvation. Since the NT was not yet in effect, the thief was not ameanable to the NT, he was not ameanable or accountable to Acts 2:38 as we today who are under the NT are accountable to it.
Matt 9:6 when Christ was ON EARTH during His personal, earthly ministry He had been given authority to forgive sins of those whom He tho't was deserving. Yet Christ left earth some 2000 years ago. For you to be saved just like the thief requires you invent a time machine to take you back in time about 2000 years to when Christ was on earth, BEFORE His NT was in effect and hope to have Him personally forgive your sins.
Evidently your theological bias does not allow you to accept facts the BIble gives.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Hebrews proves you erred - read it again until you SEE the BIG PICTURE
#1. Messiah's Blood was shed on the cross = NT Fullfillment
#2 Christ carried the thief with Him into Paradise after they HE died
#3 Jesus was forgiving sins before He went to the Cross
Thief on cross next to Jesus = BIG PICTURE NT SALVATION = if you can SEE it
Where does the faith that saves come from, since there are none righteous and none who seek God?
Romans 3:10-12 (KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
John 6:28-29 (KJV) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Abel was accounted righteous by FAITH! Saving faith that comes to all men according to GRACE, the free gift of God ALONE.
Hebrews 11:4 (KJV) By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Paul does not agree with your understanding regarding the unrighteousness of fallen mankind. All mankind is charged with being under sin. None are exempt, every man is destined to die through sin, without exception. Because every human apart from Christ is unrighteous, and every deed as filthy rags before Him.
Romans 3:9-10 (KJV) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
These Jews heard the Gospel, and their hearts were pricked, that shows the Word preached pierced their hearts, which is the natural result of the power of the Spirit working through the Gospel in them.
Acts 2:37-41 (KJV) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Since the Spirit works through the consciences of mankind, it is clear that hearing the Gospel through the power of the Spirit they believed, and gift of the Spirit Peter spoke of was not for salvation but for the supernatural gift of the Spirit to speak in other tongues.
Acts 2:4 (KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
These were not Jews in unbelief, they were "devout men" meaning already just and good. But they were without knowledge of Christ.
Acts 2:5-8 (KJV) And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Acts 2:14-18 (KJV) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Romans 1:16-20 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
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Heb 9:16-17
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Christ's NT would not come in effect until some point AFTER He died...For a testament is of force after men are dead. Yet Christ was still alive when He promised the thief he would be in paradise and while Christ was still alive His NT was NOT in effect for...it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Again, you "observe the passover" in passing over the facts that the NT was not in effect at the time Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise for Christ had not died. His NT is of force AFTER men are dead and of no strength while the Testator liveth. Therefore it remains a BIblical impossiblity for the thief to be an example of NT gospel salvation. The thief could not possible meet the requirements of the NT Rom 10:9; Rom 6:3-5 for CHrist had not yet died much less been raised from the dead.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, for now, you cannot SEE the Big Picture which begins in Genesis.
SEE it from God's Point of View beginning with Genesis
AND remind yourself of this: "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”
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