There remains no sacrifice for sins . . .

[marks]

There is no but. These Scriptures reinforce my point. The point about hope is not to have hope in what is false but what is true.

False hope is reliance on our capacity to pick ourselves up by our own boot straps. True hope rests in God's suffering servant, by whom many are saved.

And in fact, Scriptural "hope" isn't like the wistful Oh I hope I hope, it's the expectation we have because we believe.

We believe Jesus rose from the dead, and we believe Him when He says He will raise us from the dead, so we have the hope of the resurrection. We believe, so we have that hope.

When we see Him, we will be like Him, and he who has this hope purifies himself, even as he is pure.

Because we KNOW that He will transform us, conforming us to Himself, we purify ourselves. We walk by faith, and having that faith, we walk in His works.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Only after millenia of failure, when all rational hope was gone, did our Heavenly Father provide the solution. Communion with him through his glorious son. It's perfect. It's beautiful.

Or simply after a lifetime of failure . . .

Great post! Truly perfect and beautiful!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not in those words but in other words he did. Not all who call him Lord, Lord will be saved. This contradicts your OSAS.

Those words don't mean the same thing, though.

Calling Jesus Lord Lord isn't the same thing as being reborn in the Spirit. And if there is someone who is born again in Christ who does not appear with Him when He appears in glory, than the Bible is wrong, and we can pack it all in.

Forget the stigma of "OSAS" and all the baggage it carries.

Born again is forever.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Also reference to vines not producing fruit being burned.

Needs a new thread, I'll think about starting one.

Much love!

 

[marks]

there is no sacrifice for, which means the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross does not save them

Specifically, it means you can't continue to offer sacrifices. Not that Jesus' sacrifice loses efficacy.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Knowing the truth = born again?
....Not to mention, each expression really does have it's own meaning.

Normally, I take that position. However, there are synonyms and expressions that mean the same thing.

Of course, my take on knowledge in the Bible is not head knowledge but heart knowledge, a transformative experiential moment. Yes, = born again.

 

[Wrangler]

Or simply after a lifetime of failure . . .

Well, Millenia is much more than a single lifetime of failure.

That human's fail to meet the divine standard is one thing and none of us should be too surprised. The surprising thing is that the Creator of the universe took time and cared enough to find a way, despite our short comings of achieving his goal of uniting us, the dirty and unclean with him who is clean.

 

[marks]

Well, Millenia is much more than a single lifetime of failure.

I'm sorry, I was using your expression to point a slightly different direction, to make it personal to me . . .

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Calling Jesus Lord Lord isn't the same thing as being reborn in the Spirit

Yes, it is the same thing. It is the EXACT same thing. Consider the absurdity of casting demons out in Jesus name but not being born again. Nonsense. Total nonsense.

 

[marks]

Consider the absurdity of casting demons out in Jesus name

They said they did many great works, but Jesus called them workers of iniquity. It doesn't mean they were reborn. Jesus "never" knew them.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Specifically, it means you can't continue to offer sacrifices. Not that Jesus' sacrifice loses efficacy.

LOL Specifically, it means that Jesus sacrifice was undone, which means there is no other sacrifice to save the person from the consequences of their sin.

 

[marks]

Nonsense. Total nonsense.

Just stick to that is said, and be careful to not include things not said.

Much love!

 

[marks]

LOL Specifically, it means that Jesus sacrifice was undone, which means there is no other sacrifice to save the person from the consequences of their sin.

Did you see my post on the word usage? That's not what it means. It means you can't keep offering sacrifices. That's the meaning of the words used. There is nothing there about "undone", or that this refers to sacrifices already made. It refers to any that you might think to offer going forward.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

They said they did many great works, but Jesus called them workers of iniquity. It doesn't mean they were reborn. Jesus "never" knew them.

You know that Jesus "never" knowing them is a figure of speech, right?

And to recognize that these saved Christians who performed miracles in Jesus name BECAME workers of iniquity after the fact does not change the Holy Spirit sealing them and working through them BEFORE they fell again.

 

[Wrangler]

Just stick to that is said, and be careful to not include things not said.

And if there is someone who is born again in Christ who does not appear with Him when He appears in glory, than the Bible is wrong, and we can pack it all in.

Born again is forever.

You were saying?

 

[marks]

You know that Jesus "never" knowing them is a figure of speech, right?

Is that a way to say that when Jesus said "never", it's not what He meant? I get that a lot!

It SAYS this, but it MEANS that. I've got a terrible habit of replying things like, based on what? Jesus said it, don't you believe it? I've got a terrible habit of believing it. It's a simple and plain saying.

Jesus prophesied there will be those who will claim Jesus is their Lord, and they will cite what they think of as their works, and Jesus will declare their works iniquity, and will say that He never knew them.

Seems really straightforward to me, and I don't see any reason to not just accept what the Bible says here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You were saying?

Yes, that's right! Do you know the Scriptures I had in mind when I wrote those things?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

That's not what it means.

Obviously, the OSAS crowd won't agree with the NOSAS crowd on this matter.

Of course, anyone can continue to make sacrifices. The point of Hebrews is that the sacrifices will not be accepted after one is saved, KNOWS the truth and then rejects the truth, rejects their salvation through Christ.

You truly believe the passage means a person literally cannot make sacrifices?

 

[Wrangler]

Do you know the Scriptures I had in mind when I wrote those things?

It's not what Scriptures but the OSAS doctrine you had on your mind. Otherwise, you would have invoked the non-existent OSAS verse.

 

[marks]

It's not what Scriptures

Oh but it is.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

If you believe these passages as stated, then there you have it. Many don't believe them, and insist that we shouldn't accept what they say. They have to modify them, deny them, introduce conditions that don't appear as if they did appear. How about you? Do you believe the plain sayings of these passages?

Much love!