There remains no sacrifice for sins . . .
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Be honest with me. Without that there is nothing.
You are painting me as accusing God of injustice. I see your anger in your words.
God judged, and will judge in righteousness.
The reasons for His judgments in the OT are pretty well laid out, I think. And He didn't, at least, to my recollection, slaughter nations because they didn't cease from sinning, every person, for all time. Or the Israelites.
God told Jacob that He was going to give Him this land, but that the sins of the inhabitants hadn't filled up to the point of slaughtering them. Four Hundred years God allowed them to continue.
Those in His Covenant, Israel, there was an order of blessings and cursings laid out clearly, and God is Honorable and true, as as He says, so He will do.
Do you realize not all that is sin to us was counted against them? They were to keep the statutes of the Law. But we are to keep every conscientious thought. What you believe is wrong for you, whether or not it was prohibited by the Law, for you it is sin. What you believe you should do, whether or not it was commanded by the Law, if you don't do it, that is also, for you, sin.
The ancient Hebrew may know that it would be a very good thing to forgive his neighbor's debt, but the Law didn't command it, and for him it was not transgression. For us, it would be. We who are in Christ.
And of course before Moses, before the Law was given, "sin was in the world, but where there is no law, sin is not imputed". And yet . . . everyone still died. The ultimate slaughter! Everyone!
As a real question, your question doesn't really relate to the history in the OT.
As an attempted indictment against me, well, perhaps you better understand why I'm saying that.
Much love!
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Sin comes from the lust of the flesh:
“…every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:14-16)
Those that are Christ’s do not commit willful sin because:
“…they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24)
No flesh lust, no sin.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You are confusing Paul's conversion, with the Gospel that Jesus gave to Paul as "My Gospel" , after his conversion.
Read carefully...
"""
Ananias found Saul at Judas' house, praying for help. Ananias laid his hands on Saul, telling him Jesus had sent him to restore his sight and that Saul might be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He arose and was baptized into the Christian faith. Saul ate, regained his strength, and stayed with the Damascus disciples three days.
After his conversion, Saul changed his name to Paul.""""
See that?
That is Paul's CONVERSION experience, that came when someone who had "heard Jesus", told Him what was going on, and to be converted.
That is your verse...Hebrews 2:3.
But the GOSPEL, is what Jesus gave, later to Paul, which is Galatians 1 and is confirmed in many of Paul's epistles.
So, as i told you, Paul wrote Hebrews.
Pay no attention to the commentaries that teach otherwise, as those people dont care about anything other then trying to "correct the bible with the Greek".
Avoid those idiots, as its a true fool who wants to sit in authority above the BIBLE, the word of God, as a "bible corrector".
Can you imagine the LEVEL of their PRIDE, Marks?
= Astounding.
You can read Paul for yourself, in Acts 28, as its the same as you find in Hebrews 6 and 10.
Same Paul, same Christ Rejecting Jews, yet in Acts 28, Paul leaves them to their unbelief and starts his ministry as the "Apostle to the Gentiles'
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Read the Bible again to reacquaint yourself.
I posted the verse that should have cleared up your memory.
I won’t post it again.
Through out the scriptures God is injuring and killing men for sin.
Sin they can stop doing.
But a lot of posters here proclaim that no one stops sinning.
That’s a problem!
Because now they have a God that kills sinners who can never stop sinning.
It seems some people read this as though it were saying something like,
Not the Bible:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, our sacrifice for sins no more remains effective for us
"there remains no more sacrifice for sins"
Other places this word is used,
Matthew 19:6 KJV
6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Matthew 22:46 KJV
46) And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Mark 14:25 KJV
25) Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Luke 15:19 KJV
19) And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Acts 8:39 KJV
39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Romans 6:9 KJV
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ephesians 2:19 KJV
19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Revelation 18:14 KJV
14) And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
John 15:15 KJV
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Mark 12:34 KJV
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
The meaning, after this there are not any other.
I no more call you servants. I did, but now, I don't.
Men asked Him questions, but after this, no more.
The man saw Philip, but after that, he didn't see him any more.
They were two separate people, but not any more, now they are one flesh.
There were sacrifices you could offer, but now, after Jesus' sacrifice, there aren't any more.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Much love!
I think the words speak for themselves.
I remember also, the writer to the Hebrews calls Timothy their brother, Paul referred to Timothy as his son.
Much love!
Hebrews 12:6-13 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
God actually HELPS us.
Much love!
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Amen!
But God is not mocked.
A Christian should not be in a continuous chastisement from God forever.
If one continues in errors after repeated chastening, then:
“Wherefore will ye plead with me? ye all have transgressed against me, saith the LORD. In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion.” (Jeremiah 2:29-30)
“Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.” (Isaiah 1:5)
“Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”
Hebrews 10:8-18 KJV
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, And he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: But if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”
Hebrews 10:19-38 KJV
Hebrews 10:8-18 KJV
Hebrews 10:8-18 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy | King James Version (KJV) | Down
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy
bible.com
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, And he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: But if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”Hebrews 10:19-38 KJV
Hebrews 10:19-38 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having | King James Version (KJV) | Dow
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having
bible.com
Behold
Well-Known Member
Let me show you again.
You tried to prove that Paul is not the writer of Hebrews.
Here is how you tried to prove it.
"""""The writer of Hebrews learned from those who learned from Jesus:""""'
So i showed you that Ananias who was SENT from Jesus, who had learned about Jesus from other believers, who went to Paul and
He told him many things. and Paul LEARNED THEM.
So there is your verse explained.
So, that satisfies the first error you tried to teach.
Then i showed you that the Gospel that Paul is preaching, came from Christ
Galatians 1:11-12 KJV
11) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.""
So, this is 2 events and you tried to make them one event, and they are not.
1.) Paul learned from Ananias
2.) Paul later received the Gospel of the Grace of God, directly from Jesus.
And That the Hebrew writer didnt call Timothy his Son on that occasion is a moot point, as Christ also called the disciples "friends".
Their are multiple NT titles for believers, in case you didnt know it.
Paul wrote Hebrews, and Timothy was his protege', and He also called him an Evangelist, but he didn't call his this in the book of Hebrews.
So, because he didnt refer to Timothy as an evangelist, in one epistle, means Timothy wasn't?
So, According to your posted belief, that if Paul doesn't say it the same way every time....then that would be a yes.
C'mon....
So...according to comparing scriptures correctly, its a different answer.
If you will just read Acts 28:28,29, you'll note that this is a continuation of Hebrews 6 and 10.
You can't miss it, as its that obvious.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yet every time you have confessed your sin to God in the last 5. yrs, it was because you committed a willful sin.
You need to think about that instead of re-pasting your same statement again.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
[insert irrelevant assumptions and false accusations here]
Is that what you see before replying @Behold ?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I would have bet my life that you'd come back with this OSAS nonsense. The passage specifically talks about those who KNOW the truth, which means were born again. But we all know that you can not acknowledge that for your doctrine's obliteration would result.
And I do believe @marks brought up this very verse to address this very denial of your doctrine.
Going along our line of thinking, there are 2 groups who Jesus did not come to save. Those who were never called by the Father and those who were called by the Father - who knew and were born again saved - but then rejected the sacrifice of Jesus. It is for this 2nd group that there is no more sacrifice for sin.
You just cannot admit that anyone who was born again, who KNEW the truth, is capable of rejecting it. So, you must pretend this verse does not directly address the fallacy of your doctrine.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That's a tough question you ask.
I've concluded the purpose of the OT is to afford us the opportunity to attempt to meet the divine standard on our own. It was for us, in God's infinite mercy and love, to allow us to go it alone.
Only after millenia of failure, when all rational hope was gone, did our Heavenly Father provide the solution. Communion with him through his glorious son. It's perfect. It's beautiful.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What I love about your posts lately is how profoundly insightful they are in just a few words. Bravo! Bravo, dear sister!
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your input.
But this scripture comes to my mind:
“Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians 10:11-12)
“…whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
There is no but. These Scriptures reinforce my point. The point about hope is not to have hope in what is false but what is true.
False hope is reliance on our capacity to pick ourselves up by our own boot straps. True hope rests in God's suffering servant, by whom many are saved.
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