The Ten Commandments modified?!!

[Ziggy]

Judas held the purse.
Just sayin.
Huga

 

[Illuminator]

I don't know what your rant is about.

It's a well put together article with detailed explanations, backed up with Protestant sources. It's in reply to your OP: "but I question why is the Catholic Church always the leader of change and reform concerning the written Word of God." That is a rant, and demonstrably false, if you bother to READ my posts rather than REACT.

But apparently you are aware of a version of the ten commandments and you are ok with it because it's a shortened version?

The prohibitions relating to false worship are not excluded in any version or listing. The charge that Catholics changed the 10 commandments is a stupid conspiracy theory promoted by well-meaning Christians who don't know any better.

The claim is that Catholics “deleted” the Commandment about “graven images” and “idols.” But this is understood (by Augustine, Luther, and Catholics) as included within the first commandment. It’s not excluded. There is merely a “shorthand” to remember the first commandment, in the shorter version, just as “Thou shalt not covet” in the non-Lutheran Protestant versions is shorthand for the longer, more explicit biblical version.

There is no subterfuge here at all. We can go back to the 16th-century Catechism of the Council of Trent to prove this. "“The First Commandment” is written out in a very long form: it covers the entirety of Exodus 20:2-6. This is quite strange if the Council of Trent was in on this conspiracy to keep the Catholic unwashed, ignorant masses ignorant of the basic theology of monotheism and prohibition of idolatry.

Do Catholics Worship Statues?

Do Catholics violate God's prohibition of idolatry by worshiping statues? We put this bogus claim to rest once and for all.

www.catholic.com

 

[Illuminator]

Here is an actual question I received, written by a Seventh-day Adventist.

“NIV, KJV, NKJV, RSV etc. have all Gods Commandments intact. HOWEVER, the Catholic Catechism has totally deleted the 2nd commandment, and split the 10th into 2 to make up 10 commandments. They CHANGED Gods Law!!!!”

Now let us just see who really are the ‘they’ who ‘CHANGED God’s Law’…

Protestant sources of their charges that the Catholic Church changed the Ten Commandments…

1. KJV…..first appeared on the scene in 1611, a product of Protestantism.
2. NIV…..first appeared on the scene in 1978.
3. NKJV…first appeared on the scene in 1982.
4. RSV…..first appeared on the scene in 1946

Catholic sources of our defense to the baseless charges of Catholics changing the Ten Commandments…

1. Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) appeared on the scene in 1992.
   It lists the Ten Commandments as they were before Christ.
2. NJB…first appeared on the scene in 1985. The NJB supports the CCC.
3. NAB…first appeared on the scene in 1970. The NAB supports the CCC.
4. JB……first appeared on the scene in 1966. The JB supports the CCC.
5. RSV-CE…first appeared on the scene in 1965. The RSV-CE supports the CCC.
6. NCE…first appeared on the scene in 1954. The NCE supports the CCC.
7. CE…first appeared on the scene in 1948. The CE (Confraternity Edition) supports the CCC.
8. Challoner-Rheims…first appeared on the scene in 1749. The Challoner-Rheims supports the CCC.
9. Douay-Rheims…first appeared on the scene in 1592-1609. The Douay-Rheims supports the CCC.
   Note that the date for this Bible predates any Protestant Bible by at least 2 years.
10. The Latin Vulgate…first appeared on the scene in 404. The Latin Vulgate supports the CCC.
    Note that the date for this Bible predates any Protestant Bible by over 1200 years.
11. The Septuagint…first appeared on the scene about 148 B.C. This is the Bible that was used by the Apostles.
    The Septuagint supports the CCC. Note that the date for this Bible predates any Protestant Bible by over 1700 years.

Now it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to prove that the Ten Commandments could not possibly have been changed by the Catholic Church which did not even exist for almost 200 years after the Septuagint was written. Add to that the fact that ALL Catholic Bibles, ALL the way back to 148 B.C. are in agreement, and yet Protestant Bibles which did not even appear on the scene until 1611, list the commandments in the ‘different’ order.

So…WHO really did change the Ten Commandments?
source

 

[quietthinker]

The prohibitions relating to false worship are not excluded in any version or listing. The charge that Catholics changed the 10 commandments is a stupid conspiracy theory promoted by well-meaning Christians who don't know any better.

This is a statement of ignorance I'm sorry to say and only the uninformed could make it, particularly in the light of official statements by the RCC that the change they engaged is evidence of their authority to do so.......and it's not just the second commandment!

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

I have many friends that are in the RCC. I attended a child's funeral and that was the first time I entered their church.

Paganism is impossible to miss! Idols. Necromancy in the form of venerating and asking the dead to intercedes on their behalf, even watches over them as guardians.

Then there's purgatory, which isn't in scripture. Vacating Christ's work on the cross.

A friend's MiL was deeply committed to the church. She died thinking after 70+ years of confession, last rites in Hospice, she still had Purgatory to go through.
RCC's never believed Jesus paid the full price for sins on the cross.

And every RCC I know I've also asked, are you Christian?
No, they say. I'm a Catholic.

For me, they're the best witness against the church being of Christ when they say that.

And they'll claim that Jesus founded the RCC through Peter is nonsense and conjecture that warps the meaning and identity of the Rock that in both Old and New Testaments that is actually Jesus the Christ.

He came to bring the good news as a rock gospel of grace and salvation.
And upon that did he build his church, the Eklesia.

Not the pagan temple erected over top of a pagan graveyard in Rome.

Not a cult wherein a sovereign nation, Holy See, is ruled by the dictator pope who is a new age rendering of Caesar, and the college of cardinals, reminiscent of the Roman Senate.

Rome, the Caesar's, will was that Roman rule rule the world eternally.
They found a way. They even augmented scripture to guarantee it.

God is not amused.
Dead bodies claimed to be divinely preserved and on display for veneration as saints?
Madame Truseau and her museum is a close second to that.

The things people will do.

And tell me where Jesus EVER said found a bank in his name! Vatican bank holdings are immense!


False! The RCC is false. The neo-evolution of Christo-Paganism. That's why it is corrupt and eternally damned for its idolatry and blasphemy of the true Christ.

Now that I've vented.....

the problem is they justify they're idolatry
they said they never worship the idol nor do they make the idol as god

but whatever there's no point reasoning with them if God wills it they will understand

 

[Illuminator]

the problem is they justify they're idolatry

The problem is ButterflyJones' rant of 15 off topic lies of their "friends" beliefs. Some friend.

they said they never worship the idol nor do they make the idol as god

but whatever there's no point reasoning with them if God wills it they will understand

Refusing to read is not reasonable. It's as if we have no right to explain ourselves, no right to defend against prejudice and ignorance. Let me be clear: you are insulting. It's automatic with anti-Catholics. They don't think before sounding off, like the OP who probably didn't know Martin Luther's catechism lists the commandments the same as Catholics. Notice nobody is bashing Lutherans and you say, "there's no point reasoning with them".

Our 10 Commandments do not differ from the Protestant version in content, there is simply a difference in how they are organized. The Protestants first two commandments are:
1) I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any false gods before me;
2) Thou shalt not make any graven images…you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
And, their last commandment is simply: Thou shalt not covet.

The first two commandments, Catholic version are:
1) I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any false gods before me;
2) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
And, our last two commandments are:
9) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife;
10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

So, the Protestants combine our #9 and #10, into their #10.
While we combine the Protestants’ #1 and #2, into our #1.
Now, some folks say that the Catholics purposely leave out the graven image reference that we find in Protestant Commandment #2 so that we can worship our statues and all that kind of rot. "there's no point reasoning with them".

Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed “by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them” (374).​

​

What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.​

Do Catholics Worship Statues?

Do Catholics violate God's prohibition of idolatry by worshiping statues? We put this bogus claim to rest once and for all.

www.catholic.com

​

 

[Adam]

We KNOW that the Commandment is NOT about the MAKING of graven images because God Himself commands Moses just a few chapters later to create 2 golden images of Cherubim to place atop the Ark (Exod. 25:18-22). He also commands Moses to make a Bronze Serpent to heal those who gaze upon it (Num. 21:8-9). We read other examples of God being pleased with the creation of statues (I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). If this were a Commandment against the creation of images and statues, then God would have violated His own law

 

[BreadOfLife]

I can say it is my fervent prayer that you and a billion others come out of the false faith if it be God's will and while there is still time.

I won't be reading you again. You are in need of peace and grace, obviously as the rage and rancor you display throughout now consumes you. This a pity.

May God in his mercy if it be his will bring you into his fold. Amen.

In other words – you want free license to spread LIES about me and the Catholic Church with impunity – and you have the audacity to petition God in the process??
Don’t include HIM in your sin.

You are the EPITOME of a hypocrite . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If you've been at it for twenty years, you should be better than this.

She was sharing her personal experience, which you call ignorance. It's dismissive and arrogant and she OBVIOUSLY hit a nerve.

Ahhh - I thought it was a ridicule of my post.
If not, my bad . . .

 

[ButterflyJones]

the problem is they justify they're idolatry
they said they never worship the idol nor do they make the idol as god

but whatever there's no point reasoning with them if God wills it they will understand

I believe the problem stems from the fact the majority of Catholics are initiated into the church begins as infants.
By the time they reach adulthood they're fully indoctrinated into the RCC's ideology.


Those I know also went through the RCC school system.

After all that programming the only thing that will bring them to the knowledge of the truth is God working on their heart to bring him into their grace.

Relics is another matter in the RCC that I find to be grotesque as pertains to veneration of their dead saints body parts.

I believe it was Constantine's mother, perhaps wife, that sought throughout the world such things to obtain and bring into the church.

Yet another practice not at all taught by Jesus.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't know what your rant is about. But apparently you are aware of a version of the ten commandments and you are ok with it because it's a shortened version?

No , he is okay with it cause ROME teaches it . Folks will sit where they will sit and will justify their leaders to their own demise .
I have , for years watched denominations do all and believe all , just cause their leaders say SO . That is HIS problem .
but it aint his alone . Its all over the places .

 

[amigo de christo]

Judas held the purse.
Just sayin.
Huga

SO do those who preach redist of wealth . Just SAYIN .
THEY DONT care for the poor , THEY JUST BUILDING A SYSTEM where they HAVE ALL POWER over what is put in the bag .

 

[ButterflyJones]

I don't know what your rant is about. But apparently you are aware of a version of the ten commandments and you are ok with it because it's a shortened version?

This may shine some light on the RCC pov of the Decalogue.

The division and ordering of the commandments in use in the Catholic Church is that adopted by St. Augustine (Qustiones in Exodum, q. 71)

Decalogue

Decalogue, the term employed to designate the collection of precepts written on two tables of stone and given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai. The injunctions an...

www.catholic.com

 

[BreadOfLife]

the problem is they justify they're idolatry
they said they never worship the idol nor do they make the idol as god

but whatever there's no point reasoning with them if God wills it they will understand

Bad grammar aside - do YOU even understand what "Idolatry" is??
Apparently, yiou don't.

Idolatry is the WORSHIP of something other than God.
This is expressly forbidden in Catholic teaching - but OYUR dishonesty is noted , , ,

Catechism of the Catholic church
I. "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND HIM ONLY SHALL YOU SERVE"

2084 God makes himself known by recalling his all-powerful loving, and liberating action in the history of the one he addresses: "I brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." The first word contains the first commandment of the Law: "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him. . . . You shall not go after other gods."5 God's first call and just demand is that man accept him and worship him.

2085 The one and true God first reveals his glory to Israel.6 The revelation of the vocation and truth of man is linked to the revelation of God. Man's vocation is to make God manifest by acting in conformity with his creation "in the image and likeness of God":

There will never be another God, Trypho, and there has been no other since the world began . . . than he who made and ordered the universe. We do not think that our God is different from yours. He is the same who brought your fathers out of Egypt "by his powerful hand and his outstretched arm." We do not place our hope in some other god, for there is none, but in the same God as you do: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.7

 

[amigo de christo]

This may shine some light on the RCC pov of the Decalogue.

The division and ordering of the commandments in use in the Catholic Church is that adopted by St. Augustine (Qustiones in Exodum, q. 71)

Decalogue

Decalogue, the term employed to designate the collection of precepts written on two tables of stone and given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai. The injunctions an...

www.catholic.com

Her chambers lead only to death and those who enter know not the dead are there .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Her chambers lead only to death and those who enter know not the dead are there .

More idiotic platitudes - with ZERO evidence for your claims.
Good job, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

This may shine some light on the RCC pov of the Decalogue.

The division and ordering of the commandments in use in the Catholic Church is that adopted by St. Augustine (Qustiones in Exodum, q. 71)

Decalogue

Decalogue, the term employed to designate the collection of precepts written on two tables of stone and given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai. The injunctions an...

www.catholic.com

Ummm, I already explained the Catholic position in post #20.
where were YOU?

 

[ButterflyJones]

Her chambers lead only to death and those who enter know not the dead are there .

As regards the behavior of BoL, when I last read their posting it was clear the peace of Christ is absent there.
Perhaps by the language employed and in subsequent posts too no doubt, we may infer we are dealing with a minor child's intellect due to the language and ad homs they employ.

Rather than encourage further derogatory behavior and expression of bad character we might consider holding them in prayer. Rather than proceed further in inviting them to continue down that road.

And for our sake as well. We don't deserve to suffer written personal attacks upon us

The information regarding the RCC are a matter of record.

 

[BreadOfLife]

'Fifty years in the Church of Rome' by Charles Chiniquy ......a very worthwhile read, free online though Project Gutenburg

You've GOT to be kidding.
You can't be that much of a rube . . .

Charles Chiniquy was not a historian or a theologian. He was a Canadian ex-Catholic priest who was twice suspended from his priestly ministry for moral turpitude.

He was excommunicated in 1855. He spent the rest of his life festering in his bitterness. One of his psychotic accusations was that the Catholic Church assassinated President Lincoln.

Funny thing about Chiniquy – the Catholic Church wasn’t the ONLY religious organization he had a problem with. After getting kicked out of the Catholic Church – he became a
Presbyterian church, from which he was expelled for embezzlement. He was also charged with “misappropriation of funds” for money he had collected under FALSE pretenses on behalf of a non-existent Protestant charity

The following essay points out contradictions in Chiniquy's testimony and calls into question his trustworthiness:
Pastor Chiniquy: An Examination of his "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" by Rev. Sydney F. Smith, S.J. (available here)

Next time – try to get a more reliable anti-Catholic source – because Chiniquy just AIN’T it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

As regards the behavior of BoL, when I last read their posting it was clear the peace of Christ is absent there.
Perhaps by the language employed and in subsequent posts too no doubt, we may infer we are dealing with a minor child's intellect due to the language and ad homs they employ.

Rather than encourage further derogatory behavior and expression of bad character we might consider holding them in prayer. Rather than proceed further in inviting them to continue down that road.

And for our sake as well. We don't deserve to suffer written personal attacks upon us

The information regarding the RCC are a matter of record.

Spoken like a true hypocrite . . .

What you deserve is to be exposed – and that’s why I’m here.

The Bible is CRYSTAL-CLEAR about the fact that God HATES lies (Exod. 20:16, Prov. 6:16-19, Prov. 12:22, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Rev. 21:8).
And YOU wallow in them.

As long as you continue to do so on this forum with regard to the Catholic Church – I’ll be there to expose you