What does it mean to be born again?

[stunnedbygrace]

.. And yes it is true, what a man believes in his heart, so he is.

Everyone keeps quoting that verse in what I find to be a strange way. The verse talks About a man saying to another man, please sit and drink and eat all you want while the man is not thinking such generous ness in his heart as he says by his words. So if you freely eat the man’s food, it will become bitter and you will vomit it up.
So the verse is saying it doesn’t matter what a man says but it matters if he is speaking truthfully what is in his heart. And some in here keep quoting it to mean…some odd thing about trust…

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"purifies himself, just as He is pure" This is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. Purity is important (cf. Matt. 5:8,48). We must cooperate in the process of sanctification (cf. 2 Cor. 7:1; James 4:8, 1 Pet. 1:22; 2 Pet. 3:13,14;

2Co 7:2 Make room in your hearts for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one.

Jas 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

1Pe 1:22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,


2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

2Pe 3:14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.


just as John 1:12

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

speaks of our cooperation in the process of justification.

This same tension between God's part (sovereignty) in our salvation and our part (human free will) can be clearly seen by comparing Ezek. 18:31 with 36:26-27. God always takes the initiative (cf. John 6:44,65), but He has demanded that covenant people must respond by initial repentance and faith as well as continuing repentance, faith, obedience, service, worship, and perseverance.

This may be an allusion to Jesus' High Priestly prayer of John 17, especially 1 John 3:17,19. He sanctifies Himself, His followers sanctify themselves. It is somewhat surprising that different forms of the same basic root are used.

John 17:17,19 ‒ hagiazō (hagios, cf. John 10:36)
1 John 3:3 ‒ hagnizō (hagnos, cf. John 11:55)
CONTEXTUAL INSIGHTS TO 3:4-10 (interpretation problems caused by 3:6,9)

This passage has been the center of the controversy between Christian perfectionism (cf. Romans 6), sometimes called entire sanctification, and the continuing sinning of the Christian (cf. Romans 7).

We must not allow our theological bias to influence our exegesis of this text. Also, we must not allow other texts to influence this text until our independent study of this text is complete and we have ascertained what John was saying both in 1 John 3 and in the entire book of 1 John!

This text clearly presents the goal that all believers long for, a total deliverance from sin. This same ideal is presented in Romans 6. Through Christ's power we have the potential for sinless living.

This passage, however, must fit into the larger context of the entire book of 1 John.
To interpret this passage without regard for 1 John 1:8-2:2 (Christians still sin) would be folly.
To interpret this passage in such a manner as to defeat the overall purpose of 1 John, the assurance of salvation against the claims of the false teachers would be folly also.

This passage must be related to the false teachers' claims of sinlessness or sin's insignificance. Possibly 1 John 1:8-2:2 deals with one extreme of the false teachers, while 3:1-10 deals with another. Remember that interpreting the letters of the NT is like listening to one half of a phone conversation.

A paradoxical relationship exists between these two passages. Sin in the Christian's life is a recurrent problem in the NT (cf. Romans 7; Eph. 4:14; 6:10-18). This forms the same dialectical tension as predestination and free will or security and perseverance. The paradox provides a theological balance and attacks the extreme positions. The false teachers were presenting two errors in the area of sin.

This entire theological discussion is based on a misunderstanding of the difference between
our position in Christ
our striving to fulfill that position experientially in daily life
the promise that victory will be ours one day!

We are free from sin's penalty (justification) in Christ, yet we still struggle with its power (progressive sanctification) and one day we will be free of its presence (glorification). This book as a whole teaches the priority of admitting our sin and striving toward sinlessness.

Another option comes from John's literary dualism. He wrote in black and white categories (also found in Dead Sea Scrolls). For him one was in Christ and thereby righteous, or in Satan and thereby sinful. There was no third category. This serves as a "wake up call" to peripheral, cultural, part-time, funeral-only, Easter-only Christianity!

Some references on this difficult subject:
For the seven traditional interpretations of this passage see "The Epistles of John" in The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries by John R. W. Stott, published by Eerdman's (pp. 130-136).
For a good treatment on the position of Perfection see Christian Theology, Vol. II, p. 440ff by H. Orlon Willie, published by Beacon Hill Press.
For a good treatment on the doctrine of continuing sin in the life of the Christian see "Perfectionism" by B. B. Warfield published by The Presbyterian and Reformed Published Company.
Utley

These are some of the Imperatives............

31. Be no idolater (1.COR 10:7)
32. Be followers of Paul as he followed Christ
(1.COR 11:1; PHIL 3:17)
33. Be followers of God (EPH 5:1)
34. Be followers of the faithful and patient
(HEB 6:12)
35. Be not children in understanding
(1.COR 14:20)
36. Be men in understanding (1.COR 14:20)
37. Be steadfast (1.COR 15:58)
38. Be unmoveable (1.COR 15:58)
39. Be always abounding in God's work
(1.COR 15:58)
40. Be strong in the Lord (1.COR 16:13;
EPH 6:10; 2.TIM 2:1)
41. Be of good comfort (2.COR 13:11)
42. Be of one mind (ROM 12:16;
2.COR 13:11; PHIL 2:2; 1.PET 3:8)
43. Be separate from the unclean
(2.COR 6:17)
44. Be renewed in spirit (EPH 4:23)
45. Be angry and sin not (EPH 4:26)
46. Be tender-hearted one to another
(EPH 4:32)
47. Be filled with the Spirit (EPH 5:18)
48. Be likeminded (PHIL 2:2)
49. Be one of accord (PHIL 2:2)
50. Be anxious for nothing (PHIL 4:6)
51. Be an example to believers in word,
conversation, charity, spirit, faith, and purity
(1.TIM 4:12)
52. Be a partaker of Christian sufferings
(2.TIM 1:8; cp. 1.PET 4:1)
53. Be gentle to all people (2.TIM 2:24)
54. Be apt to teach (2.TIM 2:24)
55. Be instant in season, out of season
(2.TIM 4:2)
56. Be careful to maintain good works
(TIT 3:8,14; cp. MATT 5:16)
57. Be content with what you have (HEB 13:5)
58. Be doers of the Word (JAS 1:22)
59. Be afflicted and mourn (JAS 4:9)
60. Be patient till Christ comes (JAS 5:7-8)
61. Be holy in conversation (behaviour)
(1.PET 1:15-16)
62. Be pitiful (1.PET 3:8)
63. Be courteous (1.PET 3:8)
64. Be examples of the flock of God, not lord over
it (1.PET 5:3)
65. Be subject one to another (1.PET 5:5)
66. Be clothed with humility (1.PET 5:5)
67. Be sober (1.PET 5:8)
68. Be vigilant (1.PET 5:8)
69. Be mindful of prophecies and commandments (2.PET 3:2)
70. Be diligent to be found in peace (2.PET 3:14)
71. Be diligent to be without spot, and blameless
(2.PET 3:14)
72. Be faithful to death (REV 2:10)
73. Be watchful, strengthen self (REV 3:2)
74. Be zealous and repent (REV 3:19)

Thank you for this great study. I made a document out of it to keep. One thing that you have learned which is false. And that is the progression we go through is not being set apart. That already happened at the time of justification when we were cleansed of all sin and unrighteousness. When I realized this was seen as past tense in Hebrews 10:26-31, I prayed and asked God what He calls this progression that I've seen happen and have experienced. Immediately I got a word I had not even thought of. Glorification. That's it! We become more and more like Christ/God. Note that Romans 8:29-30 does not mention sanctification as you would think if it was progressive. No, it is justification and glorification.

So I hope I've given you as much as you've just given me. Important revelations.

 

[Episkopos]

If Jesus has not died for your sin, """as the one time eternal sacrifice for sin"", because "God hath made Him to be SIN for us",... then what you are teaching is true.

Since you are the one justifying yourself...you are reading the bible wrongly by making Christ's sacrifice...to be YOUR one time sacrifice for sin. In that scheme you justify yourself IN your sins present and future. This is exactly the opposite of a sound doctrine and practice.

Is Christ a minister of sin? Of course not. Yet you would have Jesus be your genie that grants you unlimited wishes for your own bad behaviour.

You have destroyed righteousness on every level with such twaddle.

And it doesn't say that GOD made Jesus sin for us. Reading skills aside, you are making God to be evil. It was evil men that saw Jesus as evil and sinful ...not God. I know some translations add words in to satisfy a bad understanding....So an accurate reading would be "He was made sin for us". Th is the right Greek way of reading it. It doesn't say "He made Him to be sin for us"...that would require 2 words specifically denoting a "He" and a "Him".... which is not there in the text. There is only one "He". So it reads..."He was made sin for us". And who did that? Evil men.

If He did, then you are not born again according to you post...., and what you are teaching is Anti-Cross and Anti-Christ, Episkopos.

This is a confession on your part. You are anti-cross because you would have Jesus die daily for you rather than you die daily for Him. So you are an enemy of the cross...in regard to what you are willing to pay for your supposed loyalty to the Lord. You are only loyal if you have to pay NOTHING...like so many here. That is a false loyalty and a false faithfulness. But we are called to obedience and to faithfulness. You see obedience as wrong. That's how misguided you are.

Romans 4:8 and 2nd Corinthians 5:19, explain that God in Christ has dealt with sin, and you are denying this and trying to put the burden of sin on a believer, when the Cross of Christ has dealt with it., 2000 yrs ago.

You are reading with selfish religious eyes that devour the truth. You are completely missing the point of the New Covenant.

And running to 1 John 1:9 wont help, as that is not written about the born again.

LOL. Whatever! In your universe up is down and down is up....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it doesn't say that GOD made Jesus sin for us. Reading skills aside, you are making God to be evil. It was evil men that saw Jesus as evil...not God.

Does the verse just mean God made Jesus who knew no sin to be a sin offering for us?
Thats what I take it to mean…

 

[Johann]

So I hope I've given you as much as you've just given me. Important revelations.

I appreciate your response, if you want to dig a bit deeper, Bob Utley is very good, I always give free advise, links, but it is ignored.

As to sanctification..........

How Are We Sanctified? (2 Corinthians 3:18)
8/10/20114 Comments

Sanctification is without a doubt one of the most essential doctrines taught in the Scriptures. All Christians would agree on that. We know that a person is sanctified positionally when they are justified, they are consecrated, or set apart for the Lord.

But, narrowing it down a little more, how are we sanctified progressively throughout our Christian lives? Jesus says in John 17:17, “Sanctify them in the truth, your word is truth” (ESV).

Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:3, “For this is the will of God, your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality” (ESV).

The writer of Hebrews says in 12:14, “Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness/sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.” (ESV)

Sanctification is undeniably a necessity in the life of the believer. Without progressive sanctification and growth in holiness, there can be no assurance that justification has taken place. Okay, so we know that we are sanctified through the Word, and that our sanctification is God’s will. And, we know that sanctification is necessary if we are to enter into glory. But, there is one more verse to comment on regarding this, one which cannot fail to be mentioned. It does not use the word “sanctification”, but it certainly is talking about it. Let’s look at it:

2 Corinthians 3:18 ἡμεῖς δὲ πάντες ἀνακεκαλυμμένῳ προσώπῳ τὴν δόξαν κυρίου κατοπτριζόμενοι τὴν αὐτὴν εἰκόνα μεταμορφούμεθα ἀπὸ δόξης εἰς δόξαν καθάπερ ἀπὸ κυρίου πνεύματος.

But we all, our face having been unveiled, beholding/gazing upon the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord the Spirit.

How are we transformed into “the same image from glory to glory”? What is the key to it taking place? It lies within the present middle participle κατοπτριζόμενοι (beholding, gazing upon).

This word, in the middle, has traditionally meant, “To look at something as in a mirror, to contemplate something, to gaze upon, to behold.” Sadly, this verse is often read or interpreted as follows, “But we all, with unveiled face.... are being transformed…” The participle κατοπτριζόμενοι (beholding, gazing upon) is often missed or forgotten altogether from the reading.

This is one of the most commonly used verses to prove that all Christians are being sanctified, and the part which heavily stresses the Christian’s responsibility is, as I said, often missed or forgotten.

Surprisingly, this participle is perhaps the most crucial part of the verse as regards Christians in sanctification. If we are to be sanctified, and when we are sanctified, it is by beholding, contemplating, or gazing upon as in a mirror the glory of the Lord. Then and only then is the Christian transformed into the image of Christ.

When a Christian is struggling with assurance and we want to give them biblical counsel, we often say, “Look to Christ”, or “Read your Bible”. Wouldn't it be more fitting to say “Are you gazing upon, beholding the glory of the Lord Jesus?”

As one writer said concerning this word κατοπτριζόμενοι, “This beheld glory of the Lord is not something that Christians experience only passively. On the contrary, they behold Christ’s glory as an exercise that is active and coincides with the process of sanctification.”

(emphasis mine) The present participle used here shows that the beholding of His glory is continuous and free from interruption.

Transformation into the image of Christ is the result of continually beholding and gazing upon His glory.

As one writer said, “We become like that which dominates our thoughts and affections.” It is significant that the participle κατοπτριζόμενοι (beholding/gazing upon) is in the present tense; so is the verb μεταμορφούμεθα (are being changed/transformed). This tells us that the transformation or change in the believer will be consistent with the beholding or contemplation.

The two are inseparable. The more we behold the glory of the Lord, the more we will be continually transformed into His image. The less we behold His glory, the less we will be transformed.

How Are We Sanctified? (2 Corinthians 3:18)

Sanctification is without a doubt one of the most essential doctrines taught in the Scriptures. All Christians would agree on that. We know that a person is sanctified positionally when they are...

www.ntgreekstudies.net

Wherewith he was sanctified (en hōi hēgiasthē). First aorist passive indicative of hagiazō.

I will look up sanctification and the etymologies.

God bless
J.

 

[Episkopos]

Does the verse just mean God made Jesus who knew no sin to be a sin offering for us?
Thats what I take it to mean…

I went back to explain further. The Greek doesn't have a "He" and a "Him".....just one word is written not two. So the Greek says "He was made sin for us" Check out a concordance or a transliteration of the text.

The text doesn't say WHO made Him to be sin.

So then those who have bad doctrine can add in their meaning....by adding in words and ideas that are not in the text.

So WHO made Jesus to be sin for us?

Evil men.

Jesus was pure and it was the wickedness of evil men that saw His purity as something evil. Likewise we are to carry His purity in the world so that we too can be hated as He was. We become the righteousness of God (eternally pure) to the world as we abide IN Him.

 

[Johann]

Does the verse just mean God made Jesus who knew no sin to be a sin offering for us?
Thats what I take it to mean…

made a chattat sin offering [Ga 3:13; YESHAYAH 53:10; VAYIKRA 4:24 TARGUM HASHIVIM]

You can ask Epi to explain this for you

This text has several great truths.

God sent Jesus to die for us (cf. John 3:16).

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Who gave his only Son?
Why?

Why did God gave His only Son?

Jesus came to die for us (cf. Mark 10:45).
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Why did Jesus gave his life as a ransom for many?

Joh 10:17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
Joh 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus voluntarily lay his life down, and to take it up again, evil men could not do that....

I disagree with Epi that evil men made Messiah to be a sin offering for us, read the verses carefully, Jesus did not come into this world to live, but to die, FOR/gar, evil men/women....

Jesus knew no sin (cf. John 8:46; Heb. 4:15; 7:26; 1 Pet. 1:19; 2:22; 1 John 3:5).

1. The goal is personal righteousness, serving Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3; 1 Pet. 1:15). However, there is a note of contingency (SUBJUNCTIVE MOOD).
   
   All believers do not fully realize God's complete purpose in salvation. It is a call to service, a call to self denial, a call to holiness. Christianity only begins when one trusts Christ. Belief is only the first step of a long journey.

NASB   "to be sin on our behalf"
NKJV   "to be sin for us"
NRSV   "to be sin"
TEV   "share our sin"
NJB   "a victor for sin"
Peshitta   "made himself sin"
REB   "One with human sinfulness"

How did God make Jesus become sin? This may be an OT allusion to a sin offering (cf. Isaiah 53; Rom. 8:3). God offered Jesus as the sinless lamb (cf. John 1:29,36).

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Joh 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! Paschal lamb......

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him......;

he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Who laid on Christ the iniquity of us all? Evil men?

This is bad eisegesis from Epi.

I'll probably will get a rap over my knuckles for cordially disagreeing with Epi.

Read the narrative with Abraham and his only son, was Abraham evil in offering up his only son?

Shalom
J.

 

[Enoch111]

The text doesn't say WHO made Him to be sin.

The text does not have to "say" anything explicitly, when it is already implied that none other than God the Father laid all our iniquities upon Christ. Isaiah 53 should be more than sufficient. So it should be obvious to anyone who is not willfully blind that the Father literally made the Son "SIN" (the Sin Bearer) for us on the cross. He was the sinless SUBSTITUTE for all the sinners and evildoers of humanity. He took upon Himself the guilt of all the world. And He also paid the FULL PENALTY for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Johann]

The text does not have to "say" anything explicitly, when it is already implied that none other than God the Father laid all our iniquities upon Christ. So it should be obvious to anyone who is not willfully blind that the Father literally made the Son "SIN" (the Sin Bearer) for us on the cross. He was the sinless SUBSTITUTE for all the sinners and evildoers of of humanity. He took upon Himself the guilt of all the world. And He also paid the FULL PENALTY for the sins of the whole world.

Isaiah 53.

Isa 53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people?
Isa 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.

Correct brother

 

[Behold]

You can't read my copy and paste? Are the letters blurred?

I can't read cut and paste, because this isn't from you.
I dont read anyone's cut and paste.

I dont cut and paste, unless its Paul or a bible verse that i will teach.
When i respond to you, its from me.
When i Thread its from me.

Let say you posted to me and said..... """But how does God accept us, if we dont work at trying to be holy."" ??

I'd then say...... God never accepts us of our own accord, as we can't be accepted until he makes us accepted....= we have to be given righteousness so that God can accept us., and your sin has to be dealt with first.
We LITERALLY have to become EQUAL to God's Righteousness, before God can take us into Himself, Spiritually. (Born again).

True Repentance that God accepts is the moment you realize that you have no righteousness, and need some DIVINE Help.

ENTER THE CROSS, as Christ died to solve that for you... once and for all.
He lived a sinless life and will take your sin upon Himself and God will take "Christ's Righteousness" and imput it to you as "the gift of Righteousness"....while birthing your spirit into His by the Holy Spirit.

See, ...for God to take you, you have to be "made righteous"., first.

1.) Your sin forever dealt with by the blood and death of Jesus The Lord.

2.) God's righteousness imputed to you as "the gift of Righteousness'"


Welcome to Salvation.

Its a FREE "Gift" from God you can't earn or keep.
God does it all, through Christ.
All you can do to be accepted by God is : BELIEVE and RECEIVE.

 

[Behold]

Exposing your lies....nothing more, nothing less.

And you just lied, and you posted no quote., as you can't because i will shine that Cross on you again.
And, I wont cut and paste to do it.

Johann, You're character is once again proven by you to be seriously flawed, and dishonest., as making a false accusation, no quotes, is the devil's work on a forum, among others.

 

[Behold]

This is no good, you don't read nothing, can't prove my secondary sources wrong, since you don't read them, but you want to teach me.

You might recall that you showed up on my Roman's Thread and tried to teach Cross rejection as "real faith".
So, you came to me, i didnt come to you.
Since then, i have tried to help you out of your failed self effort to try to be accepted by God.
I have made a great effort for you to try to free you from your "error of cain" that is your torment.
That's true.
You stated you can't stop sinning, and then you wont have any real help that can resolve that for you.
Thats on you.

 

[Johann]

You stated you can't stop sinning,

False statement, your reading skills I put in question.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I went back to explain further. The Greek doesn't have a "He" and a "Him".....just one word is written not two. So the Greek says "He was made sin for us" Check out a concordance or a transliteration of the text.

The text doesn't say WHO made Him to be sin.

So then those who have bad doctrine can add in their meaning....by adding in words and ideas that are not in the text.

So WHO made Jesus to be sin for us?

Evil men.

Jesus was pure and it was the wickedness of evil men that saw His purity as something evil. Likewise we are to carry His purity in the world so that we too can be hated as He was. We become the righteousness of God (eternally pure) to the world as we abide IN Him.

Hmm…I still have in my mind that it must mean sin offering rather than sin.
Its the only thing that makes sense to me, that it means God made Jesus, who knew no sin, to be a sin offering for us so that we might become/have the right to become the righteousness of God.

To me it’s like saying, God made a spotless lamb to be a sin offering for us so we would be covered by His blood for the forgiveness of sins so that we might become the righteousness of God IN HIM.

John called Him the lamb that takes away the sin of the world.
He gives us reconciliation and peace with God.
He doesn’t and didn’t become sin, He takes AWAY sin and gives us the right to be called sons of God.

 

[Behold]

So you recognize yourself? Are you a racist?

What you just posted, made no sense to anyone but you.

So, here is one more for today for you.

This is what is happening.... when you and i have our time of posts.
I show you that Jesus on the Cross is your eternal salvation, because, He saved you and Keeps you saved.

Philippians 1:6

You then respond like this, and i'll paraphrase the 40 times you've said it the same.

"yes, Jesus is salvation, but i keep me saved by my...( Johann's LIST of self effort ..works), just like my commentary's and my secondary sources have led me to believe and teach".

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hmm…I still have in my mind that it must mean sin offering rather than sin.
Its the only thing that makes sense to me, that it means God made Jesus, who knew no sin, to be a sin offering for us so that we might become/have the right to become the righteousness of God.

To me it’s like saying, God made a spotless lamb to be a sin offering for us so we would be covered by His blood for the forgiveness of sins so that we might become the righteousness of God IN HIM.

John called Him the lamb that takes away the sin of the world.
He gives us reconciliation and peace with God.
He doesn’t and didn’t become sin, He takes AWAY sin and gives us the right to be called sons of God.

I just can’t see it as saying: evil men made Him to be sin so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. It was all Gods plan, not the plan of evil men.

 

[Behold]

You twist and pervert my words, ekpeiradzo me, publicly., desperately attempting to put a stain upon me, breaking Forum rules, yes?

No, what i do, is what i told you yesterday when you made the same false claim.
I put your quotes in your mouth, and explain them vs the Cross of Christ.
I simply let the Cross be the Light., and it exposes what isn't true.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Personally, I think the Staff members should intervene here, since you are all out to decimate my character.
J.

Ah, just ignore him. That’s what I do.

 

[Johann]

I just can’t see it as saying: evil men made Him to be sin so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. It was all Gods plan, not the plan of evil men.

Correct.
J.

 

[Behold]

I just can’t see it as saying: evil men made Him to be sin so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. It was all Gods plan, not the plan of evil men.

Actually God sent JESUS , born of a Virgin, to go to the Cross and take your sin and mine upon Himself, so that we are forgiven our sin based on Jesus taking it all, and dying for all our sin.
He received the Judgement do us, for our lifetime of sin, ...Christ is our Sin Bearer.
The innocent dying for the Guilty so that the Guilty are set free.

"Made free from sin"..

Romans 6...

22 Being now made free from sin