The thief on the cross misconceptions

[David in NJ]

Denominationalism divided the church first. All that comes after 8s fruit of that tree.

Do you know when denominationalism started, according to Scripture?
clue - NT Scripture

 

[ButterflyJones]

Do you know when denominationalism started, according to Scripture?
clue - NT Scripture

There is no advocacy nor initiation of Denominationalism in the New Testament.

John 17:20-23 – “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.”

1 Corinthians 1:10 – “I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.”

Ephesians 4:4-6 – “There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

 

[David in NJ]

There is no advocacy nor initiation of Denominationalism in the New Testament.

John 17:20-23 – “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.”

1 Corinthians 1:10 – “I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.”

Ephesians 4:4-6 – “There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

Excellent verses/passages

Actually there is = and specifically stated as such

Peace

 

[ButterflyJones]

Excellent verses/passages

Actually there is = and specifically stated as such

Peace

Incorrect and false .

 

[David in NJ]

Incorrect and false .

What is incorrect and false???

Now you sound like the 'water believer'

 

[ButterflyJones]

What is incorrect and false???

Now you sound like the 'water believer'

My answer was quite specific. Please keep your replies civil, thank you.

 

[David in NJ]

My answer was quite specific. Please keep your replies civil, thank you.

From the love of Christ i was going to share with you His Truth spoken by the Holy Spirit and you cast judgment.
That is not what Christ would have for us to do.

Well pride goes before the fall and you just did a face plant.

The bad thing about pride is - you do not realize it when you have it but your comments here exposed it.

 

[ButterflyJones]

From the love of Christ i was going to share with you His Truth spoken by the Holy Spirit and you cast judgment.............

Well pride goes before the fall and you just did a face plant.

The bad thing about pride is - you do not realize it when you have it but your comments here exposed it.

Unfortunately you are not able to keep your replies on topic and civil.
That's very disappointing. However, it is genuine and that is helpful to this thread and posting participants.

 

[David in NJ]

Unfortunately you are not able to keep your replies on topic and civil.
That's very disappointing. However, it is genuine and that is helpful to this thread and posting participants.

More false accusing

Again, not what the Holy Spirit would have you to do.

Truly disappointing.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Let us proceed to discuss the topic at hand.

 

[David in NJ]

Let us proceed to discuss the topic at hand.

If you feel offended by something that was posted you are free to do the following:
a.) ask for clarity
b.) do not immediately judge a Brother/Sister in Christ
c.) use PM
d.) ignore it, pray and move on
e.) all of the above

So i end this conversation at this juncture - May the peace of God fill your heart in Jesus Christ our Lord

 

[St. SteVen]

Yet the BIble does not define water baptism as you do here.

Tell me more. Thanks.

St. SteVen said:
To me, a religious ceremony is an outward sign/demonstration/witness of an inward reality.

 

[ButterflyJones]

If you feel offended by something that was posted you are free to do the following:
a.) ask for clarity
b.) do not immediately judge a Brother/Sister in Christ
c.) use PM
d.) ignore it, pray and move on
e.) all of the above

So i end this conversation at this juncture - May the peace of God fill your heart in Jesus Christ our Lord

I am free indeed. And I made my point already.

Thank you for adding yours after that fact. I hope it assists you in future.

Again, let's move on and discuss the OP as is the intention of this thread.

 

[Davy]

The thief on the cross misconceptions

Post #1
Post Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:10 pm
I continually encounter people trying to justify that baptism is not an absolute necessity for one's salvation by use (erroneously) of the thief on the cross as justification, as he was not baptized but yet saved by the Lord, which is true! BUT, the error in this is the lack of understanding of the scriptures. You must read and understand Hebrews 9:15-17 which clarifies why the thief on the cross was saved by Jesus without being baptized. Christ was still alive when this occurred meaning it was done while the old testament or covenant was still in effect; the new testament had not yet been established because Christ had not yet died. And since the Lord was still alive no one could possibly be baptized into Christ under NT salvation criteria. Baptism did not become a requirement as part of salvation until the new testament began which was after the death of Christ. Jesus forgave the thief on the cross no different than he forgave others during his earthly ministry, such as the woman caught in the act of adultery as recorded in John 8. Baptism should not even be an issue when discussing the thief on the cross, but unfortunately always is, but in error.

Hebrews 9:15-17

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Your point is moot, simply because Peter showed in 1 Peter 3 that Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to them. Isaiah 42:7 was prophecy about this, and shows Jesus would lead those who believed out of the darkness of that prison house.

So even though Jesus had not resurrected yet, it would not have mattered. And both would be in Paradise that day Jesus said while on the cross. So just at what point the malefactor was saved is moot, for Jesus has the Power to save without water also. And I say that while I believe all that are able should get baptized with water.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Your point is moot, simply because Peter showed in 1 Peter 3 that Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to them. Isaiah 42:7 was prophecy about this, and shows Jesus would lead those who believed out of the darkness of that prison house.

So even though Jesus had not resurrected yet, it would not have mattered. And both would be in Paradise that day Jesus said while on the cross. So just at what point the malefactor was saved is moot, for Jesus has the Power to save without water also. And I say that while I believe all that are able should get baptized with water.

One could observe the teaching regarding baptism by water and spirit can relate to Jesus, who is the water of life, and the anointing or indwelling of spirit, God's Holy Spirit.

Because, if we are to think emersion in water is a mandate else one cannot be saved, which contradicts what Jesus taught saves us, those in the desert or regions where water is scarce, are without hope. And being God knows his creation, he'd know that too. And would not condemn those people to such a loss.

 

[Davy]

One could observe the teaching regarding baptism by water and spirit can relate to Jesus, who is the water of life, and the anointing or indwelling of spirit, God's Holy Spirit.

Because, if we are to think emersion in water is a mandate else one cannot be saved, which contradicts what Jesus taught saves us, those in the desert or regions where water is scarce, are without hope. And being God knows his creation, he'd know that too. And would not condemn those people to such a loss.

So your real argument is against "emersion" for water baptism?

How was Lord Jesus baptized with water? Didn't He set the example?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Tell me more. Thanks.

St. SteVen said:
To me, a religious ceremony is an outward sign/demonstration/witness of an inward reality.

Where does the BIble define water baptism as 'a religious ceremony is an outward sign/demonstration/witness of an inward reality'?

The Bible does not say water baptism is an outward reality that one is already saved.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I understand that you are resolute in believing in your understanding and shall leave you to it.

No, you must show where the Bible calls obeidence to God's will a work of merit else you are in error on the subject.

 

[David in NJ]

Where does the BIble define water baptism as 'a religious ceremony is an outward sign/demonstration/witness of an inward reality'?

The Bible does not say water baptism is an outward reality that one is already saved.

It's in the Bible - have you read it lately???

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

No, you have the wrong "one baptism", and it is not "God's fault" for He put it upon mankind to:

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—​

And that "tree of life" is not "water baptism." To say that it is, is to deny Christ and the scriptures in which John the Baptist contrasted the two, saying "I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

To the contrary, the commandment of water baptism was first "you shall surely die", and then water baptism only as a sign and a reminder that we must also "put out our hand and take also of the tree of life" (Jesus) and be baptized by the Holy Spirit.

But I am through with warning you about making an idol of water baptism and repeating what the scriptures and the commandment actually means. Do what you will.

No verse sat sbaptism with the HS is the one baptism of Eph 4:5. You make the CLAIM it is but provided no proof. Further more the one baptism of Eph :4:5 saves and no verse says baptism with the HS saves. Also if baptism with the HS saves and God fails to baptized one with the HS then God is for a gact culpable for that perosn being lost.

The only baptism in the NT that can be the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is the baptism of the great commission, this baptism is commanded, it saves, it is how Christians are made, it is to be tuaght, it is adminsitered by men and lasts till the end of time. These things are not true of any baptism other than the baptism of the great commission.

Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:38; Acts 10:47-48; Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:11-12 etc when taken in context at their face value all teach the necessity of water baptism. Unfortunately for those who have allowed themselves to be decieved by the false teachings of men cannot accept the Bible as it reads but must try and rewrite the Bible, rewrite these verses, to make them confoem to thise false teachings of men.