What is "Parousia"?

[rwb]

keithr, i appreciate you and God's Love for you

#1. Many people on here like to argue against scripture rather then submitting to it = religion binds and blinds.

#2. Many people on here violate God's Commandment and could care less about it = Duet 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19

#3. Everyone does what is right in their own eyes UNLESS they submit to Christ and His word.

Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

P.S. = Anyone can declare themself a 'christian' without Christ = Matthew 7:21-23
Are you one of those on here that feel that you do not need to bow your knee unto the LORD Jesus Christ? = Isa 45:15-23

All of Heaven worships the Lamb/LORD Jesus Christ the same as they worship the FATHER = Revelation 5:1-10

Read and Pray the Gospel of John and Acts which show us the Path to Eternal Life

When you point your finger of accusations against others, how many of your own fingers are pointing back at yourself David? Is there no limit to your arrogance? Most often those who stand in judgment against others are the ones guilty of doing that which they accuse of others. You would do well to meditate on these things David.

 

[rwb]

Dead yet still alive?! That's a contradiction of terms! Nobody can be dead and alive at the same time. Why does God need to restore people to life in order to judge whether they are worthy of eternal life? Why would he restore someone to life only to tell them that He is condemning them to a second death?

Scripture says otherwise! Before Christ were you not born alive physically, yet spiritually dead in trespasses and sins?

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

You are not carefully reading what John has written. John writes that only "the dead" are judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. All of humanity is called before the judgment seat of Christ, but those of faith are there in immortal and incorruptible bodies they will receive before the GWTJ when the last trump sounds. It is only the dead, revived to condemnation life that are judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. But those who shall be on Christ's right, already immortal and incorruptible will only hear Christ saying to them: "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" (Mt. 25:34)

 

[rwb]

That's not what rwb was refering to when he said "those who are dead yet still alive in heaven".

Yes, that's because the spiritual life we receive in Christ through His Spirit is eternal! If it were not Christ would not have told us that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall never die. All of humanity is appointed to die, but since the life we receive through Christ is not physical, but eternal spiritual life. Therefore even bodily death cannot take the life we have through His Spirit from those who have been born of God, born from above.

 

[amigo de christo]

That is all the worlds religion and has nothing to do with the followers of Jesus. If we study to show ourselves approved, we will not fall prey to the so reasonably sounding lies of the world.

Its true , cause NO TRUE FOLLOWER of CHRIST would buy this lie of inclusivity .
SO then why do so many who claim to follow Christ buy into it .
And the answer is , cause they been following men who have led them into inclusive unity and darkness .
THEY FOLLOW MEN who twist the words , and not CHRIST who simply SPOKE them
and inspired them . Thank you for that wonderful reminder .

 

[David in NJ]

When you point your finger of accusations against others, how many of your own fingers are pointing back at yourself David? Is there no limit to your arrogance? Most often those who stand in judgment against others are the ones guilty of doing that which they accuse of others. You would do well to meditate on these things David.

You won't stop at throwing false accusations - will you.........

 

[rwb]

You won't stop at throwing false accusations - will you.........

You really need to look in the mirror!

 

[David in NJ]

You really need to look in the mirror!

false witness is not what you should strive for

 

[RR144]

This watchtower teaching is so wrong on so many levels.

Well, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness or part of the Watchtower movement.

The word in Rev. for see is "optomai" and in the Greek only means to visibly see.

Not exactly. According to Strong's

eye
ὀφθαλμὸς (ophthalmos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3788: The eye; fig: the mind's eye. From optanomai; the eye; by implication, vision; figuratively, envy.

will see
ὄψεται (opsetai)
Verb - Future Indicative Middle - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3708: Properly, to stare at, i.e. to discern clearly; by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear.

Parousia does mean presence but for the rest of the definition it means either a proximate presence (by your side) or relative presence) somewhere near)

Now, to conclude that an initial spectacular visual display will accompany Jesus’ Second Advent is erroneous. This text is figurative, not literal. Only by interpreting this text in a figurative sense can all scriptural testimony related to the subject of the coming of Christ be harmonized, for the Bible depicts Messiah as coming:

seated on a white cloud (Rev. 14:14)
seated on a white horse (Rev. 19:11)
seated as a refiner of silver and gold (Mal. 3:3)
seated on the right hand of power (Matt. 26:64)
standing at the door, knocking (Rev. 3:20)
having a chain in his hand (Rev. 20:1)
having a sharp sickle in his hand (Rev. 14:14)
having a trumpet (1 Thess. 4:16)
having a golden crown on his head (Rev. 14:14)
having many crowns on his head (Rev. 19:12)
having a sharp sword going out of his mouth (Rev. 19:15)

Obviously, all of these references, these different postures, are figurative allusions to various activities Jesus will be engaged in at his Second Coming.

Jesus declared in no uncertain terms that “the world seeth me no more,” that “the kingdom of God cometh not with observation” or outward show (Luke 17:20; John 14:19). The Day of the Lord “cometh as a thief,” that is, secretly and quietly; and if any man say, “Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. . . . Behold, I have told you before” (Matt. 24:23–25; 1 Thess. 5:2–4). Jesus counseled his followers to watch and pray for his return—to be like those servants who watch for their lord to return from the wedding—because such an attitude of heart and mind would keep them alert and help them detect his invisible return preparatory to the establishment of his Kingdom (Mark 13:33; Luke 12:36). The Master promised that the Day of the Lord would not overtake his people as a thief; they would be spiritually informed through the light of God’s Word and the fulfillment of certain prophecies not merely predictive of the imminence of his coming, but indicative of the fact of his arrival already consummated. Satan, the usurper, “the god of this world,” “the prince of the power of the air,” is likewise invisible to the naked eye but, nonetheless, a very real personality (2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2). Thus the Lord comes quietly to steal his crown jewels, his “little flock,” his body members, who are elect and precious in the sight of God, to take them home to heaven (Luke 12:32).

Throughout the Gospel Age, the Lord’s people have, with the eye of faith, recognized Jesus as their Redeemer and Deliverer. Of the billions of people who have lived and are now living, comparatively few have had such eyes of faith and understanding. The majority, as the Apostle Paul declared, are blinded by Satan and by error, and fail to get a proper, true view of Christ. Although the god of this world has blinded the minds of all unbelievers “lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ . . . should shine unto them,” the Lord has graciously promised to open the eyes of the blind in due time (Isa. 35:5; 2 Cor. 4:4).

The sense in which the world will see Jesus is comparable to the proverbial remark of the blind man who exclaimed, “I see, I see.” Although blind, he saw or understood the situation. The world will be made aware of Messiah’s presence and rule for “behold, he cometh with clouds”; i.e., he will manifest his authority and be revealed in a time of great “trouble, such as never was since there was a nation,” terminating the Gospel Age (Dan. 12:1). “The Lord Jesus shall be revealed . . . in flaming fire [in consuming trouble] taking vengeance on them that know not God [who, not really acquainted with God, fail even to obey the light of conscience, which all possess to some extent], and [also on those who, while knowing God] . . . obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thess. 1:7,8). Though God’s wrath or vengeance will be expressed in general and widespread trouble, drastic reforms destructive of evil will also be executed. Righteousness will begin to flourish, and favor will be shown to the righteous. “When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness” (Isa. 26:9). As these dealings become more and more apparent, mankind will begin to realize that a new power has taken control of human affairs; thus the presence of the Lord Jesus as King of Kings will be revealed to the world. Even now the inhabitants of the world see the clouds of trouble gathering and darkening; some realize that a power is at work in the affairs of men with which the gov-
ernments cannot cope. Thinking men observe the persistency with which questions of right and wrong, justice and injustice, are forced upon their consideration, demanding an expression of their individual principles. Many recognize the glory and power of earth’s future ruler, and some believe his “coming in the clouds with great power and glory” (the great power and glory of justice) is imminent; yet because clouds and darkness still surround him, they do not recognize that the King himself is already present (Mark 13:26).

Not until hailstones and coals of fire have fallen to batter down and consume man’s pride, selfishness, and prejudices will the clouds disappear and reveal the full majesty and glory of Christ’s presence (Psa. 18:12,13). If men would consider and hearken to the voice of the Lord, which now directs the course of justice and warns of impending retribution, the great disasters of the near future would be averted. But “God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. . . . Then he openeth the ears of men [in the thunder tones of ‘the day of trouble’], and sealeth their instruction, that he may withdraw man from his [own] purpose, and hide pride from man” (Job 33:14–17). Thus
Jesus will come with clouds of trouble, and in due time “every eye shall see [discern] him [shall recognize his presence, power, and authority].”

In Matt. 24 Jesus said that His return will be like the lightening flashing! that is not an invisible but very visible sign.

I've already addressed this. search for it.

Jesus even warned people about those who teach Jesus has returned and is in the "secret chambers" (returned but secretly).

Matthew here is hinting of a visual deception in the future accompanied by miracle-working power—a deception so powerful that all will be deceived except the Very Elect.

 

[keithr]

Why did you stop at vs 7?

Because I had said "There will be the 1,000 years mentioned later in Revelation", and you asked "Chapter and verse please". So I responded with Revelation 20:2-7 because those 6 verses all contain "thousand years". No other verses in all of the book of Revelation contains "thousand years".

If you continue to read we discover the thousand years (which btw equates to time given the Church during this age of time for proclaiming the Gospel to all the world)

Not quite. The Church has been resurrected before the 1,000 years has started, and the Church is in heaven, ruling and judging with Jesus during that time - Revelation 20:4 (WEB):

(4) I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

The gospel calling to become members of the body of Christ ended at the first resurrection. During the 1,000 years reign Satan, the great deceiver, will have been bound up and cast into the abyss, and everyone living on the earth will be well aware of God and Jesus. There will be no need for the Gospel to be preached for a thousand years by the Church.

when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer.

Time does not end. If you're thinking of Revelation 10:6 (KJV) which says:

(6) ... that there should be time no longer:​

that is not a good translation. Modern translations translate it as "no more delay", e.g. the WEB says:

(6) ... that there will no longer be delay,​

When Christ returns, we shall be physically changed, resurrected immortal and incorruptible to inherit everlasting life on the new earth. Why would we desire to go to a spiritual habitation; heaven when Christ comes again? We long for heaven after physical death, because that is where Christ is, and He promised that where He is we shall be also. But our everlasting home as complete living soul with immortal & incorruptible physical body, re-united with our eternal spirit that returns with Christ shall be the whole new earth.

2 Corinthians 5:1 (WEB):

(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​

We will not have a physical body any more; we will have been changed to have a spirit body. We are to become a new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:16-17 (WEB):

(16) Therefore we know no one after the flesh from now on. Even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more.​

(17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.​

If faithful men are not raised a spiritual body when our natural, physical body is dead, why does Paul say we are?

Christians will be resurrected with a spiritual body, but the resurrection doesn't occur when we die. All the dead in Christ are resurrection at the same time, moments before the rapture of those living at that time. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (WEB):

(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​

(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.​

1 Corinthians 15:35 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Read carefully, Paul says there is a natural body, and a spiritual body. When we are physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds. But Paul says we are raised a spiritual body when our natural physical body dies. Paul clearly says that when our natural body is sown in the earth after death faithful saints are at that very moment raised a spiritual body. We have a little better understanding of Paul's teaching by hearing Christ explains that in the resurrection the faithful shall be as are the angels in heaven because God is the God of the living and not the dead.

As you said, "Read carefully". Paul does not write that we are physically resurrected - he writes that we are rasied with a spiritual body. He does not say that we are raised "when our natural physical body dies", nor does he say "at that very moment raised a spiritual body". Jesus also doesn't say that we will be like angels "because God is the God of the living and not the dead".

In the following passage, Christ, speaking of resurrection after physical death is not speaking of the bodily resurrection that shall be when the last trumpet sounds. He would not say we will be as the angels in heaven, which are spirit, not physical beings, if He were speaking of our physical resurrection to immortal & incorruptible human flesh, as mankind was in the beginning when Christ created mankind without sin and death.

Jesus was answering a question about marriage after the resurrection, saying there will be no marriage after the resurrection. He makes no mention of whether people are raised with physical or spritual bodies.

There is no such thing as immortal and incorruptible human flesh. Mortal means that you can die; immortal means that you cannot possibly die. Mankind has never been immortal, and never will be. When Christians are raised from death God will give them a new imperishable and immortal spirit body. Christians are not raised with a physical flesh body - 1Cor 15 (WEB):

(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.​

(53) For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.​

This helps to confirm the words of Paul when he says men/women of faith after our body dies immediately ascend to heaven a spiritual body.

We are not immortal until we are resurrected, and we are not resurrected immediately when we die! 1 Corinthians 15:51 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

Sleep means that we will be in an unconscious state (death). We wil not be made conscious and ascend to heaven until we are resurrected.

Mankind has a physical body with spirit that came from God, and together we are a living soul. Since our spirit indwelt with the Holy Spirit from Christ possesses eternal life through Him, as spiritual body we leave our natural physical body and ascend to heaven when we die, where we will be until the last trumpet sounds.

Paul reckoned that even he might be rejected as acceptable to go to heaven, and therefore not acceptable to become immortal. "Don't count your chickens until they hatch" - we will not become immortal until we are resurrected. 1 Corinthians 9:27 (WEB):

(27) but I beat my body and bring it into submission, lest by any means, after I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.​

We have been "begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth" 1 Peter 1:23 (ASV). But that seed doesn't change into an incorruptible/immortal body until we are born in the resurrection, when God provides us with a spirit body. 1 Corinthians 15:38 (WEB):

(38) But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.​

Our new immortal & incorruptible bodies will absolutely be different. But before the resurrection of our physical body, as spiritual body we will ascend to heaven a living (spirit) soul when our natural body dies. Just vs 50 says neither flesh and blood or corruption can inherit the Kingdom of God. That's why it is only as spiritual body already possessing eternal life through Christ can ascend to heaven to be with the Lord until our physical body too is resurrected immortal and incorruptible when the last trump sounds, and time given this age shall be no longer.

We won't have two bodies!

 

[bbyrd009]

That's not what rwb was refering to when he said "those who are dead yet still alive in heaven".

ah ok
i am not able to make the quote into any kind of sense either lol

How is Acts 17:11 demonstrating that God's word isn't Scripture? It's saying that whatever someone tells you, if it doesn't agree with God's written Scripture (in their case, just the Old Testament) then you shouldn't believe it.

you think? It was Paul who gave them the word, yes? i always took it more as a commentary on their ignorance...but regardless, they heard the WORD and then searched the WRITINGS (or Scriptures if you like...for now)

 

[bbyrd009]

IN MAtt. 24 Jesus said that His return will be liek the lightening flashing! that is not an invisible but very visible sign.

only "return" cannot be Quoted from there, as anyone can see

 

[MatthewG]

To me revelation was written before Jerusalem had been destroyed for the second and final time in 70Ad.

Two ways you can take this single verse

“Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭7‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. | Revised Standard Version (RSV) | Download The Bible App Now

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

bible.com

The verse above is used to suggest that Jesus is coming back to us now today. That every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him, and all the tribes of the earth (surrounding area is what that means).

With the context; you can see below that this letter is being written to specific persons who are believers.

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Revelation 1:1-7 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God | Revised Standard Version (RSV)

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God

bible.com

Now with verse 7, though many make it out for something today; in reality the people who are being written to are the ones who will be experiencing the return by witnessing him, the thing is; the people who would see him are actually believers in that day in time; those who were encouraged to wait, seek and watch.

Therefore even with people in that in age had an understanding at least from the apostles and what they shared to others; also of the coming of the Lord. John proclaims that the time is near here before addressing the churches he will be writing to, who will go on to report this to other believers.

So make no mistake; that these things are not for today. They were adamantly in the waiting hope of his return.


Unless you choose to believe that Jesus is not talking to that very generation he lived; then Jesus is coming back and you better start gathering the blameless and spotless church as a bride for Christ to come back to get.

Throughout the entirety of the Bible there is profitable information for those who seeking God out in faith, and walk by the spirit.

God bless.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A thousand years equate to TIME. I believe a sound biblical argument is that the thousand years symbolize time given the universal Church on this earth to proclaim the Gospel of Christ through the power of His Spirit until the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete.

well then resent your" sound biblical argument" as to why 1,000 years inspired means an indefinite time period.

 

[keithr]

It was Paul who gave them the word, yes?

Yes, Paul and Silas.

i always took it more as a commentary on their ignorance...but regardless, they heard the WORD and then searched the WRITINGS (or Scriptures if you like...for now)

I do like "scriptures" because that is how the Greek word graphe is always translated in the KJV (51 times out of 51) and most other translations. It's the most obvious writings that the Jews in the synagogues would have looked in to verify things about the messiah.

 

[keithr]

To me revelation was written before Jerusalem had been destroyed for the second and final time in 70Ad.

I prefer to believe the sources that say "The book is commonly dated to about AD 95" (Wikipedia). See also When was the book of Revelation written?

 

[David in NJ]

To me revelation was written before Jerusalem had been destroyed for the second and final time in 70Ad.

Two ways you can take this single verse


The verse above is used to suggest that Jesus is coming back to us now today. That every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him, and all the tribes of the earth (surrounding area is what that means).

With the context; you can see below that this letter is being written to specific persons who are believers.


Now with verse 7, though many make it out for something today; in reality the people who are being written to are the ones who will be experiencing the return by witnessing him, the thing is; the people who would see him are actually believers in that day in time; those who were encouraged to wait, seek and watch.

Therefore even with people in that in age had an understanding at least from the apostles and what they shared to others; also of the coming of the Lord. John proclaims that the time is near here before addressing the churches he will be writing to, who will go on to report this to other believers.

So make no mistake; that these things are not for today. They were adamantly in the waiting hope of his return.


Unless you choose to believe that Jesus is not talking to that very generation he lived; then Jesus is coming back and you better start gathering the blameless and spotless church as a bride for Christ to come back to get.

Throughout the entirety of the Bible there is profitable information for those who seeking God out in faith, and walk by the spirit.

God bless.

YES, it was written for all the Saints at that time and Forward = until all things are fulfilled therein.

BEGIN here = Revelation chapter 1
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.

END here = Revelation chapter 22
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

Currently - we are HERE = Matthew 24:12-14
And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness or part of the Watchtower movement.

Well you hold to their exact teaching here.

eye
ὀφθαλμὸς (ophthalmos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3788: The eye; fig: the mind's eye. From optanomai; the eye; by implication, vision; figuratively, envy.

But as this passage is not written figuratively or metaphorically the figurative is moot.

seated on a white cloud (Rev. 14:14)
seated on a white horse (Rev. 19:11)
seated as a refiner of silver and gold (Mal. 3:3)
seated on the right hand of power (Matt. 26:64)
standing at the door, knocking (Rev. 3:20)
having a chain in his hand (Rev. 20:1)
having a sharp sickle in his hand (Rev. 14:14)
having a trumpet (1 Thess. 4:16)
having a golden crown on his head (Rev. 14:14)
having many crowns on his head (Rev. 19:12)
having a sharp sword going out of his mouth (Rev. 19:15)

Obviously, all of these references, these different postures, are figurative allusions to various activities Jesus will be engaged in at his Second Coming.

Obvious? Some are some aren't but as you have not been to heaven, you are just making assumptions as to what Jesus will look like when He physically returns to the earth.
But as to the
sword- it is defined as the Word of God so we know that is figurative

But as Jesus return being physical and visible?

We only need one passage:

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

His presewnce will not have to be discerned, He will not have arrived secretly for only a few to know!

But His return will be like lightening flashing- very very visible.

Jesus declared in no uncertain terms that “the world seeth me no more,” that “the kingdom of God cometh not with observation” or outward show (Luke 17:20; John 14:19). The Day of the Lord “cometh as a thief,” that is, secretly and quietly; and if any man say, “Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. . . . Behold, I have told you before” (Matt. 24:23–25; 1 Thess. 5:2–4). Jesus counseled his followers to watch and pray for his return—to be like those servants who watch for their lord to return from the wedding—because such an attitude of heart and mind would keep them alert and help them detect his invisible return preparatory to the establishment of his Kingdom (Mark 13:33; Luke 12:36). The Master promised that the Day of the Lord would not overtake his people as a thief; they would be spiritually informed through the light of God’s Word and the fulfillment of certain prophecies not merely predictive of the imminence of his coming, but indicative of the fact of his arrival already consummated. Satan, the usurper, “the god of this world,” “the prince of the power of the air,” is likewise invisible to the naked eye but, nonetheless, a very real personality (2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2). Thus the Lord comes quietly to steal his crown jewels, his “little flock,” his body members, who are elect and precious in the sight of God, to take them home to heaven (Luke 12:32).

Throughout the Gospel Age, the Lord’s people have, with the eye of faith, recognized Jesus as their Redeemer and Deliverer. Of the billions of people who have lived and are now living, comparatively few have had such eyes of faith and understanding. The majority, as the Apostle Paul declared, are blinded by Satan and by error, and fail to get a proper, true view of Christ. Although the god of this world has blinded the minds of all unbelievers “lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ . . . should shine unto them,” the Lord has graciously promised to open the eyes of the blind in due time (Isa. 35:5; 2 Cor. 4:4).

Now you are falsely combing passages and misinterpreting passages and adding human logic to defends a position Jesus denied!

For not being a JW you certainly plagiarizing their doctrine nearly verbatim.

The sense in which the world will see Jesus is comparable to the proverbial remark of the blind man who exclaimed, “I see, I see.” Although blind, he saw or understood the situation. The world will be made aware of Messiah’s presence and rule for “behold, he cometh with clouds”; i.e., he will manifest his authority and be revealed in a time of great “trouble, such as never was since there was a nation,” terminating the Gospel Age (Dan. 12:1). “The Lord Jesus shall be revealed . . . in flaming fire [in consuming trouble] taking vengeance on them that know not God [who, not really acquainted with God, fail even to obey the light of conscience, which all possess to some extent], and [also on those who, while knowing God] . . . obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thess. 1:7,8). Though God’s wrath or vengeance will be expressed in general and widespread trouble, drastic reforms destructive of evil will also be executed. Righteousness will begin to flourish, and favor will be shown to the righteous. “When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness” (Isa. 26:9). As these dealings become more and more apparent, mankind will begin to realize that a new power has taken control of human affairs; thus the presence of the Lord Jesus as King of Kings will be revealed to the world. Even now the inhabitants of the world see the clouds of trouble gathering and darkening; some realize that a power is at work in the affairs of men with which the gov-

Now you simply reinterpret the word and allegorize so many poassages so people will have to turn to you or your teachers to discern what Scripture actually means. God does not need you and human philosophy like you so generously spout in trying to explain the Word of RT144

 

[Ronald Nolette]

only "return" cannot be Quoted from there, as anyone can see

But it can for it says "coming". So it is either a relative or proximate presence. And REv. 1 and 129 says His return will be very visible.

 

[MatthewG]

YES, it was written for all the Saints at that time and Forward = until all things are fulfilled therein.

BEGIN here = Revelation chapter 1
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.

END here = Revelation chapter 22
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

Currently - we are HERE = Matthew 24:12-14
And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

If you could show me a passage that suggest “and forward”, please do.

The Bible in my opinion is one of the hugest gifts God gave us and is beneficial to spiritual living. But those letters where not written to “me in Alabama” or “you in Australia”. This is not saying there is nothing not to learn.

 

[MatthewG]

I prefer to believe the sources that say "The book is commonly dated to about AD 95" (Wikipedia). See also When was the book of Revelation written?

That is all up to you.