After the Devil is Cast Out

[Truth7t7]

That is not even an argument. Your teachers have taught you wrong. As you do, and in keeping with the Dispies, you avoided the evidence. That is how you engage. What is more, read Job 38:6-7: "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" This is talking about the angelic host.

I concede, Job 38:7 is talking about the angelic host, however Genesis 6:2 , Job 1:6 & 2:1 are speaking of mortal human men

 

[WPM]

I concede, Job 38:7 is talking about the angelic host, however Genesis 6:2 , Job 1:6 & 2:1 are speaking of mortal human men

What is going on in Revelation 12 after the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension? - "there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

 

[WPM]

I concede, Job 38:7 is talking about the angelic host, however Genesis 6:2 , Job 1:6 & 2:1 are speaking of mortal human men

In your opinion. But your opinion is wrong.

 

[Truth7t7]

What is going on in Revelation 12 after the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension? - "there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

WPM Satan isn't omnipresent, when he was cast unto the earth that was it, the door to heaven was shut

As was shown in Jobs temptation, Satan was upon the earth, walking to and fro, I believe "The Devils" throughout the Bible are the fallen Angels that were cast out of heaven

I disagree with your belief that Satan was cast out of heaven at the birth of Jesus Christ, it was long before that

 

[Truth7t7]

In your opinion. But your opinion is wrong.

The Sons Of God below are mortal human men, that married mortal human women, Angels aren't given in marriage

Genesis 6:2KJV
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Mark 12:24-25KJV
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

 

[WPM]

WPM Satan isn't omnipresent, when he was cast unto the earth that was it, the door to heaven was shut

As was shown in Jobs temptation, Satan was upon the earth, walking to and fro, I believe "The Devils" throughout the Bible are the fallen Angels that were cast out of heaven

I disagree with your belief that Satan was cast out of heaven at the birth of Jesus Christ, it was long before that

He is not omnipresent. Who argues that? He can only be in one place at the one time. If he is on earth then he is not in heaven. If he is in heaven then he is not on earth. Hello! That is not hard to grasp.

We need to remember that Satan had legal grounds before the cross to accuse the people of God because (1) man willfully transgressed the law of God and (2) the penalty for sin had not been paid for. Job locates Satan in heaven accusing God's elect during the old covenant period. Justice demanded that sin must be punished. When Jesus took our punishment upon Himself, He paid the full and final penalty for sin. He took man’s place. He was man’s substitute. He died a vicarious death.

Revelation shows a war in heaven. It locates Satan in heaven. This occurred after the resurrection/ascension. Why? Before the cross, Satan had the right to access heaven and point the finger at God's elect because the debt for sin had not been paid. After this, he lost all legal grounds to accuse. Satan has lost his accusing seat in heaven. He no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. The penalty is paid. Because of this, we learn in Romans 8:34: "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9 show that the devil was cast down after the man-child was caught up. You have no answer to that. Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result, the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

 

[WPM]

The Sons Of God below are mortal human men, that married mortal human women, Angels aren't given in marriage

Genesis 6:2KJV
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Mark 12:24-25KJV
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Who is disagreeing with that? You are diverting.

 

[rwb]

NOT FOR YOU, Rev.12 is not clear for you. You are ADDING into it, which is why you don't understand it.

What did I add Davy??? You think saying I don't understand without proving how I don't rightly understand proves anything?

Rev.12:1-5 is a Biblical SUMMARY, from the time of Satan's original rebellion to the time of Adam and Eve, then all the way down to the time of Christ and His future reign of Rev.20 with the "rod of iron".

There is no mention in the creation account when the serpent, through cunning, and crafty prudence that God created him with, and his angels, were kicked out of heaven by Michael and his angels. Where in Scripture do you find this "original rebellion" by Satan and his angels, and their ejection from heaven? The serpent called the Devil and Satan (Rev 12:9) was not ejected from heaven at creation because he was created for the earth. The serpent deceiving the man and woman was not why he was rejected from heaven, but how he gained access to heaven. It was by his subtil, cunning, crafty deception that he appears in heaven as "a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads." It was as a great dragon with the ability to deceive that he obtained access to heaven. It was through his successful deception of mankind that he gained access to heaven, where, before the birth of Christ, he became the accuser of the brethren (Christians) before God in heaven. But through the birth of Christ, Satan is ejected forever from heaven, never again able to accuse the brethren (Christians) before God in heaven, because with His birth salvation and strength and the kingdom of God and the power of Christ has come to the whole world.

Genesis 1:24 (KJV) And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Revelation 12:10 (KJV) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[Truth7t7]

Who is disagreeing with that? You are diverting.

Not one word below puts "The Sons Of God" or "Satan" in heaven as has been claimed, its pure speculation and a big imagination

The horse is really dead, I have no further response, it's all yours

Job 1:6-7KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

[rwb]

Satan could accuse the Old Covenant faithful saints before God in heaven because none could be saved before the Son of God was born of a woman. Until the promised Messiah/Savior came to earth a man, there was none who were righteous, none who could or was willing to give their life as a propitiation for all sin. Without which there would be no salvation, and all the Old Covenant faithful saints as well as all those of faith after them would never be redeemed from death. This is why the great red dragon tried so hard to destroy Christ at His birth.

Since Satan could not kill the Christ-child at birth, he and his angels begin a war in heaven with Michael and his angels because it is written that the child would be caught up unto God and His throne. But the child would not be caught up to God in heaven until He finished the work ordained of Him on earth. Satan and his angels realizing they were permanently cast out of heaven, now bound to the earth desperately try to prevent the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven from being completed by going after the church (woman) on earth. Satan persecutes the church on earth, and the remnant of her Seed (Christ), knowing that he has only a short time before this Holy Christ-child would fulfill all that was written of Him, and he and his demonic messengers would be no more.

Without the birth of Christ there would be none with perfect, sinlessness, therefore no defeating sin through His righteous blood, and no defeating Satan's power to hold people in fear of death by His glorious resurrection. It was by His birth that salvation came to mankind. Since Satan could not destroy Christ when He was born, neither could he prevent Christ from fulfilling all that was written of Him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nothing but mostly DECEIVERS on this thread brethren.

Empty claim that you can't back up.

They don't know their Bible, but only claim to know what God's Word says while they come here pushing the latest garbage lesson they learned by the crept in unawares in their particular Beth-Avens (house of vanity).

You can make claims like this all you want, but you need to back it up. Which you are clearly completely unable to do. So, this is just hot air coming from you and nothing more.

 

[WPM]

Not one word below puts "The Sons Of God" or "Satan" in heaven as has been claimed, its pure speculation and a big imagination

The horse is really dead, I have no further response, it's all yours

Job 1:6-7KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

LOL. You seem to have an inability to read and directly address opposing arguments. Please address. You act so much like a Dispie in discussions.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nah... the devil was NOT cast out at the cross. You don't know what you're talking about. But Apostle Peter does know what He is talking about. (these deceivers are so EASY to trap)...

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

Now did Apostle Peter say that above BEFORE or AFTER Christ's crucifixion???

We don't share your understanding of what Satan's binding entails, so you have proven nothing here except that he can't be bound now based on YOUR understand of his binding.

You assume his binding leaves him completely incapacitated, but that isn't the case.

Passages like the following relate to his binding:

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Acts 26:15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. You seem to have an inability to read and directly address opposing arguments. Please address. You act so much like a Dispie in discussions.

I think he must have become an Amil by accident. His overall beliefs have more in common with typical dispensational beliefs than Amil.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There it is again, the FALSE IDEA that Satan was cast out of heaven before Christ's crucifixion. And saying it happened at Christ's birth is an even further reach away... from Biblical truth.

Those in Christ Jesus (not these deceivers on this thread):
The Revelation 12:7-17 events about the COMING WAR IN HEAVEN when Satan and his angels WILL BE cast down to this earth in OUR earthly dimension, is about the very end of this world, and is still yet to come. So don't be deceived away from this brethren in Christ.

Would you agree that it implies that when Satan was cast out of heaven he would no longer be able to accuse believers anymore because it talks about the accuser of the brethren being cast out (Rev 12:10)?

Do you think he is able to accuse us in heaven now? If so, how can that be in light of what Paul wrote here:

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Paul indicated that NO ONE can bring any charge/accusation or bring condemnation "against those whom God has chosen". Wouldn't "no one" include Satan? Of course it would.

 

[WPM]

I think he must have become an Amil by accident. His overall beliefs have more in common with typical dispensational beliefs than Amil.

I agree. It is not just his beliefs; it is his manner of engagement. He likes petty name-calling (like Premils). He also is unable (or unwilling) to address the counter-arguments. Amils do not run from difficult issues, he continually does (like most Premils on these forums).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree. It is not just his beliefs; it is his manner of engagement. He likes petty name-calling (like Premils). He also is unable (or unwilling) to address the counter-arguments. Amils do not run from difficult issues, he continually does (like most Premils on these forums).

Yes, he is like them in that way as well. Very childish and unwilling to engage in honest discussion.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think he must have become an Amil by accident. His overall beliefs have more in common with typical dispensational beliefs than Amil.

God's words teach of a future AOD and great tribulation, something reformed preterist eschatology denies

Reformed eschatology denies a future human (Man Of Sin) and literal (Two Witnesses) that will be literal prophet's returned, that will bring literal plagues upon this literal earth

I find reformed preterist eschatology "Dangerous" in the fact it denies a literal future (Man Of Sin) (The Beast) that will be given power for 42 literal months

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[rwb]

God's words teach of a future AOD and great tribulation, something reformed preterist eschatology denies

Reformed eschatology denies a future human (Man Of Sin) and literal (Two Witnesses) that will be literal prophet's returned, that will bring literal plagues upon this literal earth

I find reformed preterist eschatology "Dangerous" in the fact it denies a literal future (Man Of Sin) (The Beast) that will be given power for 42 literal months

Jesus Is The Lord

I have no idea of what you mean by "reformed preterist eschatology"? It is Christ and not those you call "RPE" who link the AOD and great tribulation to the Gospel of the Kingdom being preached in all the world. The preaching of the Gospel by the faithful witnesses (Old & New Covenant church on earth) began universally with the advent of Christ come to earth a man. Prior to the advent of Christ the Gospel was known only to one nation, Israel. Any man of sin is called the "son of perdition", in unbelief and of their father, the Devil. That means whosoever is against Christ; ie. anti-christs, and has been apparent in the world from the beginning.

Matthew 24:14-15 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Strong's Greek Dictionary - PERDITION
684. ἀπώλεια apoleia (apṓleia)
Search for G684 in KJVSL; in KJV.

ἀπώλεια apṓleia, ap-o'-li-a

from a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):—damnable(-nation), destruction, die, perdition, × perish, pernicious ways, waste.

feminine noun

 

[WPM]

I have no idea of what you mean by "reformed preterist eschatology"? It is Christ and not those you call "RPE" who link the AOD and great tribulation to the Gospel of the Kingdom being preached in all the world. The preaching of the Gospel by the faithful witnesses (Old & New Covenant church on earth) began universally with the advent of Christ come to earth a man. Prior to the advent of Christ the Gospel was known only to one nation, Israel. Any man of sin is called the "son of perdition", in unbelief and of their father, the Devil. That means whosoever is against Christ; ie. anti-christs, and has been apparent in the world from the beginning.

Matthew 24:14-15 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Strong's Greek Dictionary - PERDITION
684. ἀπώλεια apoleia (apṓleia)
Search for G684 in KJVSL; in KJV.

ἀπώλεια apṓleia, ap-o'-li-a

from a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):—damnable(-nation), destruction, die, perdition, × perish, pernicious ways, waste.

feminine noun

Petty name-calling is what he does when he cannot address presented arguments. Like Eric said, it is childish. This is another reason why i am all for online parental monitoring.