After the Devil is Cast Out

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WPM

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God's words teach of a future AOD and great tribulation, something reformed preterist eschatology denies

Reformed eschatology denies a future human (Man Of Sin) and literal (Two Witnesses) that will be literal prophet's returned, that will bring literal plagues upon this literal earth

I find reformed preterist eschatology "Dangerous" in the fact it denies a literal future (Man Of Sin) (The Beast) that will be given power for 42 literal months

Jesus Is The Lord

LOL. "Dangerous"? You clearly have no understanding of what that word means? You are such a drama queen. You say all this, yet duck around the rebuttals that refute your claims.

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is non-sensical.
 

Timtofly

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He was able to accuse believers before the Lord in heaven before that.

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

But, Paul indicated that no one (that would include Satan) can accuse us anymore.

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Are you saying those angels did not rebel until the birth of Jesus? There were no rebel angels during the whole 4,000 years before the birth of Christ?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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LOL. "Dangerous"? You clearly have no understanding of what that word means? You are such a drama queen.
He sure is. Good grief. Dangerous how exactly? LOL.

You say all this, yet duck around the rebuttals that refute your claims.

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is non-sensical.
I don't personally find anything you said there to be dangerous at all. I agree with all of it. Good post.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Are you saying those angels did not rebel until the birth of Jesus? There were no rebel angels during the whole 4,000 years before the birth of Christ?
No, I'm not saying that at all. How exactly did you get that from what I said?
 
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Timtofly

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That is not even an argument. Your teachers have taught you wrong. As you do, and in keeping with the Dispies, you avoided the evidence. That is how you engage. What is more, read Job 38:6-7: "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" This is talking about the angelic host.
The sons of God are not the heavenly host. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

The stars are in the firmament. The sons of God were humans on the earth. Two distinct places, and two distinct created beings. In fact the only two created beings in creation. Angels and humans.
 

Timtofly

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No one disagrees that we are the sons of God. The angels in context are also called the same. That is what you are not getting.
Never. The context is that angels and humans were created at the same time as creation in the first 6 days.

Angels on the 4th Day. Humans on the 6th day. There was nothing prior to Genesis 1:1. Only God in eternity.
 

Jay Ross

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There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us otherwise. Both heavenly hosts, i.e., the beasts, the Little Horn and Satan, and the judged kings of the earth, are gathered like prisoners in the Bottomless pit to await the time of their punishment after many days.
 
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WPM

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Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us otherwise. Both heavenly hosts, i.e., the beasts, the Little Horn and Satan, and the judged kings of the earth, are gathered like prisoners in the Bottomless pit to await the time of their punishment after many days.

Where does it mention the abyss? It is talking about hell. Different matter.
 

Jay Ross

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Where does it mention the abyss? It is talking about hell. Different matter.

No, it is talking about the Abyss, we just need to be able to connect the dots to see it.

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A cistern is a cavernous volume in the ground with a small entry which can be locked. The Bottomless pit would have look just like a cistern to Isaiah, which is how he described the prison.
 

WPM

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Truth7t7

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I have no idea of what you mean by "reformed preterist eschatology"? It is Christ and not those you call "RPE" who link the AOD and great tribulation to the Gospel of the Kingdom being preached in all the world. The preaching of the Gospel by the faithful witnesses (Old & New Covenant church on earth) began universally with the advent of Christ come to earth a man. Prior to the advent of Christ the Gospel was known only to one nation, Israel. Any man of sin is called the "son of perdition", in unbelief and of their father, the Devil. That means whosoever is against Christ; ie. anti-christs, and has been apparent in the world from the beginning.

Matthew 24:14-15 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.



Strong's Greek Dictionary - PERDITION
684. ἀπώλεια apoleia (apṓleia)

Search for G684 in KJVSL; in KJV.

ἀπώλεια apṓleia, ap-o'-li-a

from a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):—damnable(-nation), destruction, die, perdition, × perish, pernicious ways, waste.

feminine noun
Yes Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation, these are future events unfulfilled

There will be a literal human man that will proclaim to be God on this earth, he will have great world power literally

There will be two witnesses in literal bodies that die and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, these witnesses will bring literal plagues in a literal world, a remake if Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt
 

Timtofly

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He is not omnipresent. Who argues that? He can only be in one place at the one time. If he is on earth then he is not in heaven. If he is in heaven then he is not on earth. Hello! That is not hard to grasp.

We need to remember that Satan had legal grounds before the cross to accuse the people of God because (1) man willfully transgressed the law of God and (2) the penalty for sin had not been paid for. Job locates Satan in heaven accusing God's elect during the old covenant period. Justice demanded that sin must be punished. When Jesus took our punishment upon Himself, He paid the full and final penalty for sin. He took man’s place. He was man’s substitute. He died a vicarious death.

Revelation shows a war in heaven. It locates Satan in heaven. This occurred after the resurrection/ascension. Why? Before the cross, Satan had the right to access heaven and point the finger at God's elect because the debt for sin had not been paid. After this, he lost all legal grounds to accuse. Satan has lost his accusing seat in heaven. He no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. The penalty is paid. Because of this, we learn in Romans 8:34: "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9 show that the devil was cast down after the man-child was caught up. You have no answer to that. Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result, the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.
Why would Jesus make intercession against Satan, if Satan was no longer an accuser of the brethren?

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

Satan was never bound at this point, but sets up his Babylonian empire. His short time span of 42 months.

Are you declaring that Jesus was only making intercession on a throne from Adam to His birth, where he left for earth, Himself?

And has not had to make intercession once after His birth? Revelation 12 is a parenthetical chapter only about the events of the 7th Trumpet. Was the 7th Trumpet an event at the birth of Jesus?

Revelation 12 is not a chronological order to be followed, as it is a parenthetical, and not part of Revelation's chronology. The chapter introduces the term dragon, which had not yet been given to Satan, until the 7th Trumpet.

At some point in the chapter, it has to be about the 7th Trumpet. You also have to decide when those rebel angels were cast out, bound, released and cast out again.

Jude 1:6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

What does reserved unto the judgment mean to you? What Judgment? The birth of Jesus?

The 5th Trumpet? When were they bound?
When are they loosed to be once again cast out of heaven?

Are there two sets of angels who rebelled? One at the beginning, when Satan rebelled, and one again at the birth of Jesus? It makes no sense to declare the angels were cast out of heaven at the birth of Jesus, if they were still bound until the day of judgment.

It does make sense that the 5th Trumpet was when they were loosed, and by the 7th Trumpet had to be kicked out of heaven one last time.

Jesus has been making intercession for the last 1993 years, because Satan has been accusing the brethren night and day since then. The 7th Trumpet declares the end of time for Daniel's 70 weeks and Adam's 6,000 years of punishment passed down to all his descendants.

That is why Satan is cast out. No one will be accused in their permanent incorruptible physical bodies with everlasting righteousness, and no sin present in the world. That is why Satan is bound for a thousand years to not deceive people to turn against God. Like he deceived a third of the angels, and Eve.
 

Truth7t7

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Petty name-calling is what he does when he cannot address presented arguments. Like Eric said, it is childish. This is another reason why i am all for online parental monitoring.
No name calling whatsoever, you know well that 70AD Jerusalem fulfillment is preterist, yes you are (Partial Preterist) in your eschatology

Your for online censorship of those who expose your reformed preterist eschatology silence the opposition just like a Dictator would do
 

Truth7t7

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1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is non-sensical.
It appears you lack wisdom, reformed preterist eschatology hides the facts below (Dangerous)

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Beast, A Literal Male Human Being, Pronouns "1st Person Singular" "He" "His" "Him"

Revelation 13:4KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

The Beast will have a living human body

"Cast Alive" "His Body Destroyed"

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
 
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WPM

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No name calling whatsoever, you know well that 70AD Jerusalem fulfillment is preterist, yes you are (Partial Preterist) in your eschatology

Your for online censorship of those who expose your reformed preterist eschatology silence the opposition just like a Dictator would do

LOL. You talk such nonsense at times. It is hard to take your posts serious. Name-calling is your infantile tactic. It shields your lack of arguments.
 

WPM

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It appears you lack wisdom, reformed preterist eschatology hides the facts below (Dangerous)

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Beast has a living human body

"Cast Alive"

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Beast, A Literal Male Human Being, Pronouns "1st Person Singular" "He" "His" "Him"

Revelation 13:4KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Answer the questions instead of your usual avoidance. This is getting old.
 

Truth7t7

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Answer the questions instead of your usual avoidance. This is getting old.
Your false claim that (The Beast) isn't a literal human male has been clearly answered below, read it again and again

It appears you lack wisdom, reformed preterist eschatology hides the facts below (Dangerous)

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Beast, A Literal Male Human Being, Pronouns "1st Person Singular" "He" "His" "Him"

Revelation 13:4KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

The Beast will have a living human body

"Cast Alive" "His Body Destroyed"

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Daniel 7:10-11KJV
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
 
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rwb

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Yes Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation, these are future events unfulfilled

There will be a literal human man that will proclaim to be God on this earth, he will have great world power literally

There will be two witnesses in literal bodies that die and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, these witnesses will bring literal plagues in a literal world, a remake if Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Christ warned the first century disciples that they would see or understand the AOD present in the holy place. The struggle for you seems to be a lack of understanding what the holy place is. It ceased being Jerusalem and the temple long before 70 AD. Christ tells His disciples, in every age, to understand the AOD would cause great tribulation toward the church as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. That means the AOD, and great tribulation is not limited to any one time in history but shall be connected with the holy place throughout this age within the holy place wherever the Gospel is proclaimed.

Christ had already stated Jerusalem had killed the prophets and those sent to them, then rejecting their promised Messiah, the city and temple were already desolate, and for that reason they would be utterly destroyed. And this happened just as Christ said it would in 70 AD. Understanding historical facts about when Rome sacked Jerusalem and the temple does not make me partial preterist. It simply means I can believe historical facts. Since Jerusalem and temple were no longer a holy place unto God even before the advent of Christ, the only holy place Christ warns His disciples AOD would come with great tribulation is the church, as the body of Christ on earth.

Satan and his demonic minions always use mankind to accomplish their antichrist/antichristian deeds on earth. John likens them to Gog and Magog. These men under the power and influence of Satan, as false prophets, and beasts have from the beginning of the universal church on earth been mixed within the body of believers, called the church or body of Christ. They have always come with power and shall continue to wax worse and worse as the day of Christ's return draws nearer.

The church on earth from Old Covenant (two olive trees) and New Covenant (two candlesticks) is called to be witnesses for Christ. From the Old their witness of the Gospel was through the Law and Prophets, and from the new through faithful Churches proclaiming the Gospel of Christ through the power of the Spirit. When their testimony is finished near the end of this age when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, the seventh trumpet will begin to sound that time given this church age for proclaiming the Gospel is finished. Satan will be released for his little season, and the last of the two witnesses on earth (church) will be encompassed as Satan leads Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristians) to overcome and kill them. Though they appear on earth as lifeless ruin for the same amount of time the body of Christ was entombed, they are not put into graves, because the Spirit of life returns to them, and they hear a voice from heaven calling saying to them, "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." Very quickly the second woe has passed, Christ has returned and claimed His bride (Church) from this earth, and the fire of God comes down from heaven to utterly burn up this earth and whosoever is still living on it.
 

Davy

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There is no mention in the creation account when the serpent, through cunning, and crafty prudence that God created him with, and his angels, were kicked out of heaven by Michael and his angels. Where in Scripture do you find this "original rebellion" by Satan and his angels, and their ejection from heaven?
Like I said before, you don't understand the Revelation 12:1-5 events about Satan (that "red dragon"). And the reason is because you do not know The Scriptures, and that includes Scripture in God's Word about the overthrow in the old world by Satan. God has HID it from you, because it is given in the form of parables in 'certain' Old Testament Scriptures.

And I won't show you where to find it because of your 'haughtiness'. Ask others here, because I know there are others here that well know what Scriptures I'm talking about. Or ask your preacher, IF you think he might have studied His Bible enough to know.