Sanctification is not a Process

[Michiah-Imla]

You've concluded that he doesn't believe in rebirth?

No.

I’ve concluded, based on what he says, that he thinks a Profession of faith in Christ (whatever he thinks is included with that) is the difference between saved and unsaved persons.

Or did you guys change what faith in Christ means???

Faith in Christ includes the re-birth!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not to me. That seems like a major oversimplication, and it looks like the fruit of cognative bias. I'm not saying it is, but that's what it looks like to me.

Misrepresenting others isn't right. Bearing false witness and all that.

You've said that he thinks the only difference is a profession of faith. You've concluded that he doesn't believe in rebirth?

Much love!

its amazing a person who claims to be sinless

Exodus 20:16

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Deuteronomy 5:20

‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Proverbs 25:18
A man who bears false witness against his neighbor Is like a club, a sword, and a sharp arrow.

while willingly breaking the 9th commandment

 

[marks]

So where are the babes in christ in your belief system?

where are the young adults in your system?

why do we not even see believers in the NT who one second are lost. and the second later they are not only saved, But super mature adult believers who do not need to learn. not need ot be taught. Not need ot go through persecution and trial to help them grow?

We used to have a term "Gloriously Saved", we'd use it when we would see someone transformed in their rebirth. My friend Alex was a heroin addict, had been for years, and was coming to the end of that process. It was killing him. And he knew it, but couldn't stop.

One day he was getting a hamburger, and saw a church across the street, and went inside. He heard the Gospel, and literally climbed over the tops of the seats to get to the front. He was Gloriously Saved! His addiction as gone. His mind was whole. And he began to serve, and he never relapsed. That was years ago, now he's a fixture in the church.

God did that, sovereignly. Alex didn't know anything. God just did it.

Others, He let's wander for years, working through things. I can't explain the difference, His ways are too high for me. But I know that He can do anything, and does do all sorts of things, knowing what is right for each of us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

based on what he says, that he thinks a Profession of faith in Christ

OK. For me to know what you are talking about, you've have to show me what he says that makes you think he only looks to a "profession of faith". This sounds unrightfully disparaging to me.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Eternally Grateful

I did not bear false witness.

Or do you now believe that the difference between saved and unsaved persons is wether or not they sin?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[marks]

you guys change what faith in Christ means???

We're not the "Dictionary Committee".

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

I did not bear false witness.

Or do you now believe that the difference between saved and unsaved persons is wether or not they sin?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

You can be angry all you want my friend. No angrier than I am at your arrogance in trying to tell people what I believe. and your refusal to listen to anyone who disagrees with you.


I am done trying to show you what I believe, you people twist it and turn it to suit your own belief system,

You claim sinless while you continuously bear false witness against people all the time.

Until you repent and admit you still sin.. There is no help for you or anyone you talk to that has to put up with your pride

 

[marks]

Actually not to be naive or smug, I really do not understand what you just said Epi. I really do not know what to do with it...at this time anyway...
.. empty vessel? I do not think so........so God will zap me instantly with the exact 'level' of sanctification as Christ..I do not think so....even as a believer of many decades..am I warm or is there some decoding of the mind that is needed?

I agree with Episkopos on this point. Why would we not be able to fully walk in the Spirit? I know most of us spend our lives learning to do that, but are you certain it must be that way?

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. What if we trust that we are able to do just that, because we've been freed from sin, and made alive unto God.

Can we live as those who are now alive from among the dead ones? I believe the answer is, yes we can, if we will trust.

It's our own ideas about ourselves that prevent us from trusting Him that way, I think.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Therefore how is there no process?

I would answer that the process is generally training us to trust Him, fully, continuously. But when we fully trust Him, (there's a lot there to unpack), we walk in His Spirit, and His love in us isn't halfway. When we love others in our own love, there are ups and downs and sideways. But when we love others with His love it's full and complete.

Like a river glorious . . . perfect yet if floweth deeper all the way.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Present Tense continues as the future becomes present. The idea is the continuing moment that is now. It happens now, and now, and now, and now, you get the idea. You really may benefit from learning Kione Greek Verb Tenses. There are a number of good websites you can visit.

Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)

ntgreek.org

Present Tense
The present tense usually denotes continuous kind of action. It shows 'action in progress' or 'a state of persistence.' When used in the indicative mood, the present tense denotes action taking place or going on in the present time.

For example: "In Whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." Eph 2:22
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together." Heb 10:25
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think this one makes the information fairly accessible, I think.

Much love!

You're over-complicating the plain meaning of present tense. It means it already is...not some life long process of attaining.

If I say...I am alive. That may indeed continue to be true in the future...but what it doesn't mean is that I need to continue into the future in order to be alive right now. I'm either alive right now or I'm not.

Holiness is of the Lord exclusively. So then sanctification is about location, location, location. It doesn't matter for holiness if a person is there or not. People will try to enter in but will be unable, as they don't meet the necessary requirements. And maybe in the future a new attempt will succeed. But we can't say that a person is getting holy little by little. There is NO process in sanctification.

The sooner we deal with that major carnal safety net, the sooner we get to discussing purgatory.

 

[marks]

Amen brother! Now to "sin willfully" (Hebrews 10:26) carries the idea of deliberate intention which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately.

It's an incorrect application of the passage. In saying, "there remains no more sacrifice", this is saying that the repeated sacrifices are over. It does not refer to Jesus' "once only" sacrifice of himself.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with Episkopos on this point. Why would we not be able to fully walk in the Spirit? I know most of us spend our lives learning to do that, but are you certain it must be that way?

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. What if we trust that we are able to do just that, because we've been freed from sin, and made alive unto God.

Can we live as those who are now alive from among the dead ones? I believe the answer is, yes we can, if we will trust.

It's our own ideas about ourselves that prevent us from trusting Him that way, I think.

Much love!

I see it more as the faith required to meet God's condition of ALL. God's ways do not change...neither do His judgments. It's on us to meet HIS requirements. He owes us nothing.

In the word there is a promise...that if we seek Him with ALL our hearts...then we WILL find Him.

No respect of persons there. When the condition is met...we find Him.

When we give all of ourselves we get all of Him...as Paul said...

Gal. 3:19 “And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”

That is the full measure of grace I am speaking about. That is the sanctification that makes us holy as God is holy.

 

[marks]

Keeping our vessel pure is by a process of maturity....not purity. Purity doesn't defend against impurity...maturity does. What is spoiled IS the purity when the body sins. That proves a lack of maturity...not purity. Without purity, the impurity does no further damage...because it is already impure.

I think this is very well said!

Keeping our eye on the prize helps establish our faith.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

I think we might just be arguing over words here, at least to some extent. Seems in scripture there is one sense in which sanctification is a process and another sense in which it is instantaneous. Just depends on what sense one is specifically talking about.

We need to be careful of being too rigid in how we are applying certain words in scripture.....the same word can be applied to different things....every time we see a particular word in scripture doesn't mean it is always talking about the exact same thing, and that's what I seem to see with the word sanctify or sanctification. It has a general meaning but isn't necessarily always talking about the same experience, if I can put it that way.

In one sense we are instantly sanctified when we are born again and receive His spirit within. But then in another sense we still need to be fully sanctified. So we begin a process or a journey which occurs over time...which is at least partly a hidden work, like a seed underground, our corn of wheat dying. Until, this leads us to, and makes us ready for, as I potentially believe (but not yet experienced), the application of a "finishing touch" so to speak, which again is instantaneous.

Being filled with the spirit.....considering the possibility that we can be filled with the Holy Spirit any number of times, after we come to faith, but maybe there is another sense of being filled, where that filling is complete for the simple reason the vessel has finally been fully emptied to make room for that.

Amen and well said! I was once in a discussion on a different Christian forum in which someone started a thread entitled: "Sanctification, an event or process or both." It turns out to be both and the discussions generated by that thread turned out to be enlightening and edifying.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen and well said! I was once in a discussion on a different Christian forum in which someone started a thread entitled: "Sanctification, an event or process or both." It turns out to be both and the discussions generated by that thread turned out to be enlightening and edifying.

Fortunately we are not on that forum.

If we see sanctification as purity...we see that one cannot make purity more pure. Either it is pure or it isn't.

If we take polluted water...and keep adding pure water to it...does it eventually make it pure?

The answer lies in this very simple adage...

A little leaven leavens the whole batch.

That statement in itself destroys the idea of a progressive sanctification. One is either fully holy or not.

And the secret is about location. In Him is no sin.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen and well said! I was once in a discussion on a different Christian forum in which someone started a thread entitled: "Sanctification, an event or process or both." It turns out to be both and the discussions generated by that thread turned out to be enlightening and edifying.

You seem to know a few things . I have asked others but they dont seem to have an answer .
So now i ask you .
Do you have any idea where i can go to pick up my white prividledge card .
I mean the news and social gospel seem to say the white man is priviledged
yet i seem to be no better off than the poor blacks or hispanics .
SO i figured maybe i need to go register for this white card so i can have me all them priviledges they accuse me of having .
OR , do you think , do ya just think THEY ARE LYING to get a new system in which will simply SERVE THEM
and not the blacks , hispanics or any color . exactly .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

your refusal to listen to anyone who disagrees with you.

I refuse to listen to anybody disagreeing with the Holy Bible!

you continuously bear false witness against people all the time

And you continue this charade of repeating this nonsense. I bore no false witness of you.

I know exactly what you believe!

I’ve communicated with you in the past on another forum years ago.

It boils down to ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

And the only way to tell the difference between saved and unsaved in this system is their claim of salvation! Because believers sin and the unbelievers sin in that theological system.

Give me a break!

 

[amigo de christo]

Give me a break of that kit kat bar . Better that than what the socially engineered gospel is handing out .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I refuse to listen to anybody disagreeing with the Holy Bible!



And you continue this charade of repeating this nonsense. I bore no false witness of you.

I know exactly what you believe!

I’ve communicated with you in the past on another forum years ago.

It boils down to ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

And the only way to tell the difference between saved and unsaved in this system is their claim of salvation! Because believers sin and the unbelievers sin in that theological system.

Give me a break!

Keep it up dude and I will report you

You have utterly no idea what I believe, all you have is what you THINK I believe through your own lens

You do not listen to anyone who disagrees with you. You ASSUME you have 100% all truth, well my freind, you are mistaken.

I will not warn you again. Either admit your sin against me. Or back up. Because I will not take your slander much longer

 

[amigo de christo]

Keep it up dude and I will report you

You have utterly no idea what I believe, all you have is what you THINK I believe through your own lens

You do not listen to anyone who disagrees with you. You ASSUME you have 100% all truth, well my freind, you are mistaken.

I will not warn you again. Either admit your sin against me. Or back up. Because I will not take your slander much longer

Folks we need to learn to armour up . I didnt even report some that straight up accused me
calling me an angent of satan and saying i will be eternally tormented .
I found out , however , that man was reported by another . But not by me .
IF we keep on whining about this or that , soon enough we wont be able to rebuke or correct anyone or anything
without being reported ourselves . ARMOUR UP folks . I get called DIRECT NAMES and i dont complain about it .
We must deal with things . IF what we say is true , then know and understand it will be attacked by others .
If we cant handle internet attacks , how on earth are we gonna handle in person ones .
Lets no complain . Rather PROVE your point and he can PROVE HIS .