How to Walk in Righteousness

[Episkopos]

The church is not a cell group neither are home churches. Wherever believers gather together it’s the church.

That's not what it says...and you know it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This has proved disastrous to evangelicalism. The standard is SO low, that they have even less understanding than the ones who compromise the truth that are over them and live from them.

David said, you have made me wiser than my teachers. God finds a way to reach and find even indoctrinated men who He can send to speak through and correct course. The problem is, so few listen to them and they are always killed…

 

[ChristisGod]

That's not what it says...and you know it.

The church is the body of Christ gathering together on a regular basis to use their gifts to build up the body and equip the saints to do the work of service as per Ephesians 4 by its leaders who train and equip the saints to do the ministry. That happens in local churches and home churches making disciples. I’ve done it in both and I’m still doing it in both.

At our local church we have a senior pastor who is the primary preacher. In our men’s groups I challenge him and his ideas all of the time and he appreciates it and many times will say he hadn’t looked at it from that perspective before . Iron sharpens iron. And a strand of 3 cords is not easily broken. Accountability is a good thing and it honors the Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, walk just as He walked.

whoever abides/remains/resides in Him does not sin.

Are you sinless?

The apostle John said if he himself claims he is presently without sin he would be decieved

Are you greater that John?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's the model of the institution...set up like business...with franchises. The competitive nature of these businesses makes for a dumbing down of the gospel to get as many in the pews as possible...more people, more revenue= more success.

This has proved disastrous to evangelicalism. The standard is SO low, that they have even less understanding than the ones who compromise the truth that are over them and live from them.

They dumb it down to maintain control. It would be disastrous to have a runaway Holy Spirit show up. They would lose their phony baloney jobs and who would feed them then? In the past, they even fought to not let the gospel be translated into men’s languages. No bereans allowed!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Are you sinless?

The apostle John said if he himself claims he is presently without sin he would be decieved

Are you greater that John?

That’s just useless. No understanding has ever been arrived at by ignoring some of the verses.

Are you saying that John is greater than Paul?

And no, I’m not saying I’m sinless. I’ve very specifically stated, over and over again, that I’ve never walked in the Spirit. I have been weaned though.

 

[ChristisGod]

That's the model of the institution...set up like business...with franchises. The competitive nature of these businesses makes for a dumbing down of the gospel to get as many in the pews as possible...more people, more revenue= more success.

This has proved disastrous to evangelicalism. The standard is SO low, that they have even less understanding than the ones who compromise the truth that are over them and live from them.

Plurality of elders is the NT and biblical model .

Acts 14:23
When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.



1 Tim 3:1-7
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping hischildren under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5-9
5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless — not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.



1 Tim 2:11-15
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

1 Tim 5:17-19
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." 19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.


1 Peter 3:1-6
In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 3 Your adornment must not be merely external — braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

1 Peter 5:1-5
Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble

James 5:14-15
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up.

 

[Johann]

I like that word symmorphizo there. If, I'm not mistaken it seems to leave room for both what has been accomplished in us as well as what is happening along the way.

(summorphizomenos tōi thanatōi autou).

Explaining the previous clause: by my becoming conformed, etc. Rev., becoming conformed. Compare 2Co_4:10; Rom_6:5. For conformed see on Mat_17:2, and see on form, Php_2:6. The most radical conformity is thus indicated: not merely undergoing physical death like Christ, but conformity to the spirit and temper, the meekness and submissiveness of Christ; to His unselfish love and devotion, and His anguish over human sin.

Notice the Present--Passive--Participle--

being made conformable unto his death; either in a spiritual sense dying daily unto sin, 1Co_15:31, having the affections, with the lusts, crucified, Gal_5:24, and the deeds of the body mortified, Rom_8:13, and so planted in the likeness of his death, Rom_6:5; or rather in a corporeal sense, bearing always in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, 2Co_4:10, and being continually exposed to death for his sake, and ready to suffer it whenever called to it,


Being made comformable unto his death; some read, while made conformable to his death, not only in dying to sin, Rom_6:5,6, but in being conformed to his image in suffering, Rom_8:29; dying daily, or always living ready to be delivered to death for Jesus’ sake upon his call, Rom_8:18 2Co_4:11. Such was his Christian temper, that he could cheerfully go through sufferings by reason of some communion and conformity he had in them with Jesus Christ.

συμμορφόω, συμμόρφω: present passive participle συμμορφούμενος; equivalent to συμμορφίζω, which see: Php_3:10 Rec. Nowhere else.
Thayer

I also thoroughly enjoy Utley--

3:10 "the power of His resurrection" This must refer to believers' new life in Christ. This series of phrases in Phil. 3:10 may reflect Paul's sufferings for the gospel (cf. 2 Cor. 4:7-12,16; 6:4-10; 11:23-28) which included his current imprisonment.

Others see all these phrases in Phil. 3:10 as aspects of believers' mystical union with Christ or their Christlike maturity. As Jesus was perfected by the things He suffered (cf. Heb. 5:8) so believers are matured by suffering (cf. Rom. 5:1-5).

"the fellowship of His sufferings" Suffering is a common theme of the Christian experience of the first several centuries as it is in many societies in the world today (cf. Rom. 8:17; 1 Thess. 3:3; 2 Tim. 3:12; 1 Pet. 3:14; 4:12-19). As believers share Jesus' victory, they also share His ministry (cf. Matt. 10:24; Luke 6:40; John 13:14-16; 15:20; 17:18; 20:21; 2 Tim. 3:12).

"being conformed to His death" This is a present passive participle. Believers must be dead to sin and self and alive to God (cf. Matt. 16:24-26; Rom. 6:1-11; Gal. 2:20; Col. 3:3). True life is preceded by death to the old life!

3:11 This is a third class conditional sentence which meant probable future action. Verse 11 must be interpreted in light of verse 10. This phrase does not express doubt about salvation, but humility!

"I may attain" Here again is the dialectical or paradoxical model of Paul's theology. Paul knew he was a Christian and that as Christ was raised by the Spirit so he would also be raised (cf. Rom. 8:9-11). However, Paul saw salvation not only as a past completed event (cf. Acts 15:11; Rom. 8:24; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5), but also an ongoing process (cf. 1 Cor. 1:18; 15:2; 2 Cor. 2:15) and ultimately in a future consummation (cf. Rom. 5:9,10; 10:9; 1 Cor. 3:15; Phil. 1:28; 1 Thess. 5:8-9; Heb. 1:14; 9:28). Christianity is resting in the character and gift of God in Christ and an aggressive, constant, vigorous life of grateful service to God (cf. Eph. 2:8-9 and 10). George E. Ladd's A Theology of the New Testament, pp. 521-522, has a good discussion on this subject.



"resurrection" This is an unusual compound term. It is found only here in the NT. It is literally "out of the dead into resurrection life." Paul has been discussing the intimate personal relationship between himself and the resurrected Christ. He longed for the end-time day when he, too, would experience physical resurrection as he already had experienced spiritual resurrection (cf Rom. 6:4-11; 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 John 3:2). This is part of the "already but not yet" tension of the Kingdom of God, the overlapping of the two Jewish ages.

My apologies for the cut & paste--and correct errors as you see it but I simply love Utley and the biblical outlay for a simpleton like me to understand and apply it to my life in Christ--just love the pathos of @marks on Romans 6 and your input as well @Lizbeth

I'm catching up with you all in this heavenly race! And don't forget, the panoplia of God is not to be put off when we go to bed.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Plurality of elders is the NT and biblical model .

We’ve sunk to the point that it can’t work. If you have more men to hand out and oversee more poison, it’s not going to do anything but poison more.
All I can think to do is start with a prophet at this point. Someone has to have the vision to begin to restore. What you do past that I can’t imagine…unless it’s to grow in unity and let the Spirit work…

There has to come a point where at least someone sees it’s not working and dares to stand up and say so. Someone has to eventually say, but where is the God of Paul?.?!

 

[ChristisGod]

We’ve sunk to the point that it can’t work. If you have more men to hand out and oversee more poison, it’s not going to do anything but poison more.
All I can think to do is start with a prophet at this point. Someone has to have the vision to begin to restore. What you do past that I can’t imagine…unless it’s to grow in unity and let the Spirit work…

Prophets faded away with the Apostle's after they died. There are no Apostles and Prophets in the church today. There are elders, pastors, teachers, evangelists.

 

[Johann]

In the present/passive form, something God is doing with us continuing. I'm not sure prior working is in that word, but I think the overall teaching of Scripture is that we are being conformed to our death in Christ. Like, the new Christian is crucified with Christ just like the mature Christian, but the mature Christian, whose mind has been more renewed, will show that more.

Perhaps "conformable to His death" can be understood as having a fully renewed mind?

Much love!

Don't forget the suffering part brother--something that is very seldom mentioned here.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Prophets faded away with the Apostle's after they died. There are no Apostles and Prophets in the church today. There are elders, pastors, teachers, evangelists.

First, I didn’t say an apostle, I said a prophet. The prophet has to point out the problem. It’s the only way. Literally. It’s not working, we are close to death, and no one knows what to do to correct course.

 

[ChristisGod]

Don't forget the suffering part brother--something that is very seldom mentioned here.

Suffering is a promise.

 

[ChristisGod]

First, I didn’t say an apostle, I said a prophet.

Correct and there are none today

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Correct and there are none today

There always is one. But who listens? Certainly not a man who insists there are no prophets.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Wake up!

 

[Johann]

Suffering is a promise.

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

[ChristisGod]

There always is one. But who listens? Certainly not a man who insists there are no prophets.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Wake up!

And he gave Apostles too and they are no longer in existence.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And he gave Apostles too and they are no longer in existence.

So say you.
But even if what you say were true, you would need a prophet to tell you that God no longer equips apostles and prophets or how else would you know God had cancelled what Paul said?

 

[marks]

Don't forget the suffering part brother--something that is very seldom mentioned here.

That's got a lot to do with how we get there.

Suffering is a promise.

Yes! Suffering is God's gift to us to pry us away from fleshiness. And it works! For the child of God.

James 1:2-4 KJV
2) My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Let's fully believe this, and when suffering comes, as it will, and does, that we might be truly grateful! Thanking God for the work He is doing for us through our suffering changes the entire aspect of that suffering. I mean, pain still hurts, but we are not our bodies, we can rejoice in God's love, and be thankful regardless.

I don't mean to say it's easy, or anything like that. But as He builds our faith, we learn how to remain unmoved.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

We’ve sunk to the point that it can’t work. If you have more men to hand out and oversee more poison, it’s not going to do anything but poison more.
All I can think to do is start with a prophet at this point. Someone has to have the vision to begin to restore. What you do past that I can’t imagine…unless it’s to grow in unity and let the Spirit work…

There has to come a point where at least someone sees it’s not working and dares to stand up and say so. Someone has to eventually say, but where is the God of Paul?.?!

The poison comes from the “ prophet” with no accountability. There are no lone rangers in the real church as God doesn’t use such men filled with pride and no accountability.