Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this is no more real than the caholic church saying theirs is Gods church
Paul did not say the CHURCH of Christ greets you
He said the CHURCHES of Christ greet you
Huge difference
A Test Of Reading Comprehension and Honesty
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Paul did not say the CHURCH of Christ greets you
He said the CHURCHES of Christ greet you
Huge difference
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
if JESUS said to do then its EVIL not to do . The early church followed him .
So too must all lambs . So repeat after me .
IF JESUS said DO the lambs DO . lambs are hearers and DOERS of the Word .
Ps , never follow the all inclusive lie . For it says muslims buddists and atheiests , other religoins
are fine so long as they just do them some good . IT OMITS the VERY FACT they have to actually BELIEVE IN CHRIST
to be saved . And that my friend , as you know , IS A LIE .
JESUS didnt say go ye and preach the gospel unto all , he or she who dont believe will be saved so long as they do some good .
NEVER said that . IN fact HE says very clearly if they believe not , whosoever believes not will be damned .
Like i said , IF JESUS SAID IT , LAMBS BELIEVE IT AND DO IT and teach it and embrace it , loving all things He did command .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and that is a GOOD THING . Now let all that has breath both praise and thank the LORD .
And is a conjunction, joining two words together, Repentance and baptism, thus for the remission of sins is only attainable when both commands are obeyed. To claim as Dan is, that one must obey only one and dis-obey the other is absurd.
I'm saying he has bought into calvinist doctrine without realizing it. Not that I am saying he claims to be calvinist.
Acts 11:17,18
- If God therefore gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God.
When they heard these things they became silent and they glorified God saying, Then God has also granted to the gentiles repentance to life.
First the gentiles believed the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them by Peter.
Then Peter says God grants the gentiles repentance to life.
Why? Because they believed.
If they had not believed God would not have granted them repentance to life.
Before Cornelius heard the gospel of Jesus, he already was a believer in the true God,
Acts 10:2,
- a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people and prayed to God always.
This was the very first time Jesus is revealed to the gentiles that He is God and the Savior.
So Cornelius needed to believe in Jesus and obey Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16 by being baptized in water.
Cornelius being a believer already and knowing that God sent Peter to him, was already willing to believe what Peter preached to him,
Acts 10:24-25,
- And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them and had called together his relatives and close friends.
As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.
Cornelius knew Peter was sent by God. So Cornelius was ready to believe whatever Peter would command him.
Acts 10:33,
- So I sent to you immediately and you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before God, to hear all the things commanded you by God.
Peter then proceds to teach the gospel,
Acts 10:34,35
- Then Peter opened His mouth and said: in truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
But in every nation whoever fears God and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Peter preaches whoever fears God and does works of righteousness is accepted by God.
Those works of righteousness are believing, repentance water baptism.
Remember Peter told Cornelius God only accepts those who do works of righteousness.
Therefore Dan's gospel is not the gospel Peter preached to Cornelius.
Dan preaches no works of righteousness, no works period to be saved. Faith alone salvation.
Except when Dan adds repentance to faith alone which is an inconsistency in his teaching.
So Dan's teaching about Cornelius' conversion goes, Cornelius repents, but not of sins. Then has faith alone, but must ignore that Biblical repentance is a work of turning away and the abolishment of sinful living. A change in ones mind and lifestyle.
Dan defines repentance wrongly.
Acts 10:38,39,43
- how God anointed Jesus of Nazereth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing al, who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
And we are witnesses of all things which He did in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem whom they killed by hanging on a tree.
Now listen to Cornelius hear about Jesus' death, burial and ressurection next.
This hearing is before Cornelius is given the gift of tongue speaking,
Acts 10:40,41,42
- by hanging on a tree, Him God raised up on the third day and showing Him openly, not to all people but to witnesses chosen before God, even to us who are and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.
-And Jesus commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who has ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
- To the prophets all witness that, through His name whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.
Notice Cornelius does not need Holy Spirit gift to speak in tongues in order to believe.
He has already the ability to believe.
First he believed in Jehovah already, Acts 10:1-2.
Second he believed the vision God sent him to send for Peter, Acts 10:4-9.
Third, he already desired to believe whatever Peter would preach to him, Acts 10:33.
Conclusion based on the evidence Cornelius believed in Jesus and his death, burial and ressurection when Peter taught him the gospel.
This all occurred before he was given the gift of speaking in tongues.
Later Peter completes the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ by giving Cornelius the command to be water baptized in Jesus'name,
Acts 10:47-48.
Which is the same great commission preaching Jesus commanded to His apostles,
Matthew 28:19-20.
Cornelius believed first before repentance.
Peter tells the story to jews in chapter 11.
Acts 11:14;
- who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.
Those words were the death, burial and ressurection of Christ.
After tongue speaking those words were baptism in Jesus 'name, Mark 16:15-16 just as Jesus had already commanded Peter to preach.
Cornelius believed first!
Verse 17 is Peter repeting that God gave them(Cornelius and household) the same gift(tongue speaking) as what the apostles recieved when they believed.
Also of note: The apostles believed in Jesus way before the received the gift of HS baptism, then spoke in tongues.
This is exactly like Cornelius. First he believed in Jesus as that was already taught to him before he received the gift of tongue speaking.
Where in this whole conversion story do you have Cornelius repenting before faith in Christ?
That has been inserted into the text by Dan.
Acts 11:17-18,
- When they heard these things they became silent and glorified God, saying, Then God has also granted to the gentiles repentance to life.
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No, are you not aware their were already established Churches of Christ in different cities?
More than one location, all the same church of God!
No Baptist church at Rome.
No Baptist church at Corinth
No Baptist church at Galatia
No Baptist church at Colose:
No denominations in the first century!
Only one church and that is the Lords church which He established, Matthew 16:18-19.
All other sectarian churches including the catholic church came much later. All these "churches" were founded by men not the Lord.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Because of the name here you believe that Paul was talking about the modern day so called church of Christ that you attend? So only your church is the true church? I've heard that same argument from Campbellites numerous times over the years. I see that you also bought into that same sales pitch.
What about the church of God? (1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:16; 15:9) There is a church today that goes by the name "church of God" so by your logic, are we to believe that only that church today is the true church?
The true church is the body of Christ that is made up of all genuine born again Christians (Colossians 1:18,24) and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.
Biblical repentance is not a change of mind.
Biblical repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of lifestyle.
A lifelong thief robs banks.
He grows old and has never been caught.
He begins to worry about going to jail.
He then changes his mind about committing crime.
He stops breaking the law because of his fear of getting caught.
This is changing the mind because of selfish reasons, worldly sorrow.
True repentance requires Godly sorrow that motivates one to turn away from sin against God,
2Corinthians 7:10,
- for godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation not to be regretted, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Jesus teaches repentance is changing ones mind based upon godly sorrow that you sinned against Him. This obviously would include stopping the sin against God that is now bothering your conscience.
Revelation 2:16,
- Thus you also hold to the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which thing I hate.
Repent or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Jesus commands them to turn away from their sins. Repentance
Acts 8:22,
- Repent therefore of this your wickedness and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Peter who preached repentance on penetcost Acts 2:38.
Is now once again preaching repentance to Simon.
We learn that Peter preaches repentance of wickedness which is sin.
Not what Dan teaches is that repentance is only changing ones mind from unbelief to belief.
Dan confuses belief, faith and repentance as one in the same thing.
Putting repentance before faith as Dan's sect does, does not nullify the fact that repentance is stopping or putting away sin and changing ones entire life towards Godly living.
Since Peter preached repentance of sin in Acts 8:22,
It must also be true that the commandment to repent in Acts 2:38 was also the commandment to repent of sin. Otherwise Peter teaches more than one gospel, Ephesians 4:5.
Last, If repentance is changing ones mind from unbelief to belief that also qualifies as repantance of sin because unbelief is a sin,
Hebrews 3:12,
- Beware brethren lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.
You cannot remove turning away from/ stopping sin and changing ones mind and lifestyle from Biblical repentance.
To do so is to pervert repentance into something that is no longer taught in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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The church is only those who follow the apostles doctrine only, Acts 2:42. Which the Holy Spirit describes as a PATTERN THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED,
Philippians 3:17,
- Brethren join in following my example and note those who so walk, as you have us(apostles) for a pattern.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
There was no denomination called the "church of Christ" in either of those cities
It was called the church in rome, Not the "church of christ (a denomination) in Rome
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
well since the denomination "Churhc of Christ" does not follow the apostles doctrine.
Then it must not be a true church.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
This (your error) is like that of "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."
In other words, you have it backwards. It is not the scriptures that reveal the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit that reveals the scriptures.
As for me getting "direct revelation apart from the Holy Spirit revealed revelation of God"-- They are One and the same, God is spirit.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Dan, perhaps you could edit this post to include who it is you are quoting.Here is yet another false accusation from you. I do not exclude repentance out of my salvation gospel. (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21) We must first repent (change our mind) before we can believe the gospel and become saved.
This article below explains the confusion of the teachings by your church in regards to repentance and faith.
The Church of Christ Reverses the Order of Repentance and Faith
SOURCE: The Church of Christ gospel “plan” is to hear, believe, repent, confess, and be “water” baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Here it is reasoned that if one will simply perform these “5 st…answeringthehardlinechurchofchrist.wordpress.com
In Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him. *That is not saving faith yet. They still needed to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, which explains why they still needed to repent. Those who have truly repented have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Two sides of the same coin.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
You teach a false gospel of salvation by water baptism and your continued slander is not going unnoticed.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side--the new direction of this change of mind. (Acts 20:21)
Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to mean "completely stop sinning." That is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) and not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works. Sound familiar?
I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from all sinning." If turning from your sins means to completely stop sinning 100% of the time and never stumble at all, then people can only be saved if they completely stop sinning and in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who is sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time. (1 John 1:8-10)
Never in new testament conversion to Christ is Biblical repentance only a change of mind. The Bible teaches for repantance to be geniune it must come from a Godly sorrow for the wrongs/sins one has done against God. If all repentance is, is changing your thinking with no changing of living NO REPENTANCE HAS OCCURED.
Example: A born again christian has an addiction to drugs prescribed by his doctor.
He knows he must stop using the drugs from a back surgery.
Yet he continues to abuse and increases his dosage for years.
Every night he prays to God to forgive him of his sins, particularly of his sin of drug abuse.
But instead of going through what he begs his heavenly Father in heaven, that is to stop the sin.
He never goes through with the change in lifestyle by checking himself into a rehab clinic.
Every night he prays the same pray: Lord forgive me of my sin of drug abuse, help me to change my wicked ways.
Yet every morning when he awakes, he has no real intention of ever changing.
Since he never changes by turning away from his sin, he has not Biblically repented.
Therefore, changing ones mind, does not equate with Biblical repentance.
True Biblical repentance requires a change of mind because of godly sorrow that results in a turning from sin, a change of ones living.
2Corinthians 7:10,
- for godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
This is ridiculous. God never commanded in His new covenant perfect commandment keeping.
God knows we are imperfect.
If man could attain perfection, there would be no need for Christ shed blood on the cross.
What God does require is striving for perfection. Something that cannot be obtained but must be a constant work in the spiritual grow of a Christian.
2Peter 3:17-18,
- You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked.
1Corinthians 11:1,
- Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ.
Striving for spiritual maturity in Christ
James 1:3-4,
- but let patience have it's perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
James 1:12,
- Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will recieve the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Philippians 2:12,
- Therefore my beloved as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Matthew 5:48,
- Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect
Strive to be perfect as Christ is perfect,
Philippians 3:12,
- Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
This sounds good. Like well thought out theologies of men.
But if it is not sound Bible teaching it is of no profit.
Notice: "Acts 26:20...This is the fruit of repentance....and not the "essence" of repentance (change of mind).
Is this sound teaching or just shaping a Bible concept like repentance into a man's ideas on repentance to fit into his theology?
Listen to what was taught,
According to Dan repantance can be only a change of mind. But later the fruit will be a change or stopping of the sins. The change of ones actions is the fruit but the repantance itself is the change of mind.
Does the Bible teach this? No
Again,
A person wants to stop using drugs.
He prays for God to forgive him and help him overcome his sin.
But he never takes action and stops committing the sin.
He repeats the same process every night.
Prays for forgives asks God to help him stop the sinning but every new day he gives in to temptation and commits the same sin.
I had a brother in law constantly "quit" smoking.
He would have a change of mind, throw his cigarettes out the window. Few hours later he would go buy more cigarettes.
Once again he would have a change of mind, throw the cigarettes away, then go right back to smoking(no action or change in lifestyle, no fruit of repentance).
Can we sayl that change of mind ever really was true repentance?
No, because YOU CANNOT HAVE TRUE BIBLICAL REPENTANCE WITHOUT THE FRUIT OF REPENTANCE.
One without the other is not repentance.
Is Dan correct that repentance always precedes faith in Christ.
If I give one Biblical example that contradicts Dan's churches teaching I have proven Dan's doctrine is not Biblical.
Acts 2:37,
- Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren what shall we do?.
What was it that cut or pierced into their hearts?
The gospel of Jesus Christ that Peter preached unto them.
Only the gospel has the power to pierce the hearts of men.
Only those who believe the gospel is their hearts pierced.
Those who reject the gospel, their hearts have not been cut/pierced.
Hebrews 4:12,
- For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit and of joints and morrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
They were moved by the gospel!
That is a response of belief in what they heard preached to them by Peter!
We clearly have believers in the gospel that was preached to them.
Now Peter answers their question by commanding them to repent of their sins.
Sins of what?
For one they just learned they have murdered their Messiah who is God!!!
Do you think they need to repent of that sin?
Dan doesn't believe they do.
He teaches their repantance is only a change of mind.
No, they have already gone from unbelief to belief in verse 37.
Therefore they must repent of their sins and be baptized for the remission of their sins,
Acts 2:38.
Faith>>>>repentance >>>>>baptism>>>>forgiveness of sins>>>>recieve the gift of the HS.
Remember if Dan's definition of repentance in salvation, "unbelief to believing" is correct.
It still does not remove repentance from sin because unbelief itself is a sin that must be repented of.
You cannot get works out of salvation for faith itself is a work, John 6:28-29
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
False. I already explained the truth to you about Acts 2:38 in post #337 (and I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine) but you don't care about the truth. You have bought into Campbellism doctrine and only care about accommodating your perverted water gospel as taught by your church.
Repentance does not follow believing the gospel. It precedes it and repentance and believing the gospel is two sides to the same coin. Repent (change your mind) -- new direction of this change of mind -- (faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation). You continue to demonstrate that you have not yet changed your mind and placed your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Your faith is in "water and works" for salvation.
Cornelius was a believer in the true God, yet he and these Gentiles still needed to hear a message from Peter by which they would be saved. (Acts 11:14) We see that these Gentiles repented unto life when they changed their mind and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, received the Holy Spirit and were saved. (Acts 11:17,18) That aligns with the message in Acts 10:43 - ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins.
Salvation by works of righteousness is NOT the gospel. (Titus 3:5) In regards to Acts 10:35, working righteousness is the result of an already established faith. (fruit of faith) We are not saved by works of righteousness (literally, works done out of righteousness) which we have done (Titus 3:5), but works of righteousness are the fruit of salvation and not the means of salvation. You have this backwards. Those who work righteousness/produce good works do so as the result of already having been saved through faith. (Ephesians 2:8-10) This is 'descriptive' of a saved believer (they work righteousness) and not a prerequisite to become saved. Works-salvationists commonly confuse "descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture (as demonstrated by you) and the end result is always the same - "salvation by works/works righteousness."
Is that descriptive of a believer or an unbeliever?
Works of righteousness are works done in righteousness after one has repented and believed the gospel and is in a state of righteousness. (Romans 4:5-6) Water baptism "follows" having been saved through faith (Acts 10:43-47) and is a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:13-15) yet we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5)
Again, those who work righteousness is 'descriptive' of a Christian. Peter is not teaching salvation by works here.
Dan's gospel certainly is the gospel that Peter preached to Cornelius. Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. The false gospel that Titus teaches is salvation by works.
Faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation (whoever believes in Him) receives salvation. (Acts 10:43) God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6) Works of righteousness follow and are produced by believers who have already been saved by faith. Titus places the cart before the horse and preaches works salvation.
There is no insistency in my teaching. Repentance (change of mind) new direction of this change of mind (faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation). Titus just doesn't understand because he remains in unbelief. He still needs to repent and believe the gospel. Only then will the blinders be removed. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
More slander and confusion from Titus. Cornelius repents which includes of sins, but this does not mean that Cornelius never sins again at all. Repentance does not mean sinless perfection. Cornelius has faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in works. Those who truly repent turn away from practicing sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Galatians 5:19-21) and now practice righteousness (1 John 3:9,10) which is a change in one's mind and lifestyle. This is the fruit of repentance, but not the essence of repentance.
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 4:975,636
Trench's Synonyms: lxix. μετανοέω, μεταμέλομαι.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 34x
The KJV translates Strong's G3340 in the following manner: repent (34x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
- to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 97.)
μετανοέω metanoéō, met-an-o-eh'-o; from G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent.
G3340 - metanoeō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (NASB20)
G3340 - μετανοέω metanoéō, met-an-o-eh'-o; from and ; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent.
www.blueletterbible.org
metánoia – literally, "a change of mind" ("after-thought"); repentance. So much for your false accusation.
CONTINUED...
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
That sums it right up. Whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.. (Romans 1:16) When will you believe?
Water baptism is not a part of the gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) Water baptism follows "after" we believe the gospel.
Cornelius believed in God first, but he did not believe the gospel until "after" he repented upon hearing the words by which he and all his household will be saved. So repentance (change of mind) preceded believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. You remain mixed up and still have things backwards. This site below explains a lot of your confusion.
Faith and Repentance
To be saved, does a person first believe or repent? What is biblical repentance? What does the Bible mean to repent?
www.cofcdilemma.org
Answers for Church of Christ beliefs
Answers for Church of Christ errors such as water baptism for salvation and non-instrumental music
www.cofcdilemma.org
Believed what? Believed in God or in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? Apparently ALL belief is the same to you and you cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This also explains why you have so much faith in water and works.
The apostles did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit after they believed at first because Jesus needed to be glorified. (John 7:38-39) Cornelius and these Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. Period. (Acts 10:43-47) You can try to twist that all you want but you are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on this board.
Everyone must first repent (change their mind) before they can believe the gospel and become saved.
God granted the gentiles repentance unto life when they change their mind and believed the gospel. That's not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to accept because of your church indoctrination and stubborn unbelief.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I never said that repentance did not involve Godly sorrow towards sin or that no fruit will follow repentance. You seem to have no problem at all bearing false witness against me. Now in regards to salvation, if the new direction of this change of mind in repentance does not result in placing our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, then you did not repent unto life no matter how much moral self-reformation follows and moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration.
In regards to John 6:29, Jesus' uses a play on words here when he said, "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?"
So Jesus was not saying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works or else it would contradict Ephesians 2:8,9. *Note the distinction between faith "and" works - "saved through faith, not works."
Let me know when you are ready to change your mind and place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Water and works cannot save you yet Jesus can but ONLY IF you trust in Him as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of your salvation.
This is intentional misrepresentation from Dan.
I've told Dan so many times that I've lost count, that I do not believe water saves.
Water has no power to wash away sins.
And again I do not follow Campbell. I only follow God
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
You wrote the book on intentional misrepresentation. Now I was not implying that you teach water "in of itself" is mystical and it has saving properties in it's chemistry. The implication is that you teach we are not saved until after we are water baptized and you also teach that other works save us as well. If you followed God then you would be trusting in the death, burial and ressurection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Seeking salvation by works is not following God. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
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Really? Why does Jesus in His great commission tell His disciples to baptize in His gospel then?
Jesus joins believing and baptism when He teaches His gospel to His disciples.
This was Jesus' last message before leaving earth and returning back to His Father in heaven.
Mark 16:15-16,
- And Jesus said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature,
he that believes and is baptized will be saved but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Dan has changed Jesus' gospel to fit a sects theology.
Notice once again Dan excludes commandments that God joined together.
Acts 2:38 repent and baptized
Mark 16:16 believe and is baptized will be saved.
Repentance and baptism is Jesus' gospel
Belief and baptism is Jesus' gospel.
Religions that do not follow the gospel of Christ will omit parts of the gospel.
Dan's churches gospel,
Mark 16:15-16,
- He who believes and is NOT baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Dan, this is not what Jesus' gospel teaches!
Also, the gospel of Christ is much more than the death, burial and ressurection.
Confession of faith in Jesus is also a prerequisite in His gospel unto salvation.
1Corinthians 15:1-4 says nothing about confessing His name before men.
Also, 1Corinthians 15:1-4 says nothing of repentance.
But 1Corinthians 15:1-4 does teach about belief in the death, burial and ressurection of Christ.
Belief is the gospel enacted, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
Baptism is the gospel re-enacted, Romans 6:3-4.
Jesus teaches both are His gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
In baptism is our death with Christ
Our burial with Christ
Our being born again as we are raised with Christ
Romans 6:3-4,
- Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Jesus was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Paul teaches we were saved by this form of doctrine in Romans chapter 6,
Romans 6:17,
- But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
This form of doctrine is where we were delivered i.e set free from sin!
Romans 6:17-18,
- and having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
All this is speaking of the water baptism with Christ in the same chapter of Romans 6:3-4;
Romans 6:3-4 baptism with Christ
Romans 6:3-4 born again with Christ, read verses 5-7,
- For He who has died(we die in water burial, Romans 6:4) has been freed from sin.
That form of doctrine Paul is preaching that delivered us has set us free from sin is the death, burial and ressurection that is re-enacted in our baptism.
To make the gospel only 1Corinthians 15:1-4 is to change Jesus' gospel into belief in death, burial and ressurection only.
Is this rightly dividing the word of God?
Is this being honest with the word?
Is Dan correct that the gospel of Christ can only be defined as his church allows, i.e. belief only in the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus?
No, because the Bible does not teach this!
The gospel is more than belief alone.
It is literally Jesus Himself.
This is the gospel.
Not just belief, that is only part.
Not just obedience, that is only part
But what is the gospel? It is Jesus Himself.
1Peter 1:25 = John 1:1,
- But the word of the Lord endures forever, Now this WORD which by the GOSPEL was preached to you.
John 1:1,
- In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
The gospel is Jesus Christ.
It is not only death, burial, ressurection.
It is not only baptism.
It is all these things.
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