A Test Of Reading Comprehension and Honesty

[Titus]

This goes beyond mere human understanding and involves a supernatural opening of their understanding to comprehend the Scriptures. The natural man does not understand. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

This teaching comes from the reformers like John Calvin.

Here is a quotation from the website Got Questions, it is a Baptist website,

"The clearest verse on Gods drawing to salvation is John 6:44 where Jesus declares that no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, ...
Clearly this drawing is a one sided affair. God does the drawing to salvation, we who are drawn have a passive role in the process. There is no doubt that we respond to His drawing us, but the drawing itself is all His part."
Cont.
"Why does God need to draw us to salvation? Simply put, if He didn't we would never come. Jesus explains that no man can come unless the Father draws him, John 6:65.
The natural man has no ability to come to God, nor does he even have the desire to come. Because his heart is  hard and his mind is  darkened, the unregenerate person doesn't desire God and is actually an enemy of God, Romans 5:10."


Sound familiar?

Now here John Calvin's teaching on those who God will not draw because they were not chosen to be given the direct operation of the Holy Spirit.

Quote from Calvin:
"God preordained, for His glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a  part of the human race without any merit of their own to eternal salvation and another part in just punishment of their sin to eternal damnation."

Why? Because God chooses who will recieve the calling through the direct operation of the Holy Spirit.
This calling must be miraculous because man is so Totally Depraved that he would not and can not come to God nor does the lost desire God, without God miraculously regenerating the heart.

Which is Baptist theology.
The theology Dan teaches whether he knows it or not,
Quote from Danthemailman,

Jesus opened their understanding the comprehend the Scriptures here and the Holy Spirit continues to perform this same miraculous task for believers

These words are clear, yet you still cannot comprehend. You need a miraculous awakening from the Holy Spirit

I do not misrepresent anyone!
I am not at fault for those whose religious beliefs come from ignorance of there origins.

 

[Titus]

How then does God draw us to Him, so that we might be saved?
John 20:30-31,
- and truly Jesus did many signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book,
but these are WRITTEN that you may believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that believing you may have life in His name

Through the Inspired word that the Holy Spirit revealed to us is how TODAY the Holy Spirit, Jesus and the Father draws us to Him. The word is how we come to faith in Christ.

John 6:68-70,
- but Simon Peter answered Him, Lord to whom shall we go?
You have the words of eternal life, also we have come to BELIEVE and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jesus answered them, Did I not choose the twelve and one of you is the devil?

It is clear the apostles were not supernaturally blinded to not understand Jesus'teaching and directly hardened in unbelief directly from God.
Their unbelief was not Gods choosing. It was their own freewill.

Peter admits he believes, this proves they had they ability. Their unbelief also was from their own ability not forced on them by God.

Baptist like calvinist will quote John 6:44 as proof that God must draw one to Him through miraculous direct operation of God.
The very next verse proves God draws us today through His word,
Verse 45,
- it is written in the prophets and they shall all be  taught by God, therefore everyone who has heard and  learned from the Father comes to Me.

Christianity is a taught religion! God performs no miracles today to impart faith into the unregenerate.
Faith comes by teaching, hearing the gospel of Christ!
Romans 10:17,
- So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

If God only selects certain individuals to impart faith then calvinism is true.
God has graciously given the revelation i.e. Holy Bible to anyone who desires to read and study it.

This is why all are choosen who by their freewill, will hear and believe the gospel of Christ.

Conclusion:
Man cannot come to God on his own, IMPOSSIBLE

How then does God draw man to Him today?
Through the revelation, His holy word.
This is how the Holy Spirit works on mens hearts today through the Scriptures that He revealed to us.

We can understand the Scriptures without a miracle being performed on us.
Did you know you would not even know if there was such a person as the Holy Spirit if the word of God had not revealed this to us?

 

[ScottA]

How then does God draw man to Him today?
Through the revelation, His holy word.
This is how the Holy Spirit works on mens hearts today through the Scriptures that He revealed to us.

We can understand the Scriptures without a miracle being performed on us.
Did you know you would not even know if there was such a person as the Holy Spirit if the word of God had not revealed this to us?

I love this topic and I love the scriptures...but they should not perhaps be singled out as the focus of how God draws people to himself. The scriptures are rather only one product or evidence of His drawing people to Himself. In other words, the draw was not first written, but the still small voice of His spirit was first, and the scriptures only came as a result.

So, yes, the scriptures are very helpful in understanding that still small voice, and for some is even the starting point. Even so, many are still drawn first by that still small voice of His spirit. I am one. It was only after He drew me by the Spirit that I was also drawn to what is written, which then was a welcome confirmation.

 

[mailmandan]

This teaching comes from the reformers like John Calvin.

Here is a quotation from the website Got Questions, it is a Baptist website,

"The clearest verse on Gods drawing to salvation is John 6:44 where Jesus declares that no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, ...
Clearly this drawing is a one sided affair. God does the drawing to salvation, we who are drawn have a passive role in the process. There is no doubt that we respond to His drawing us, but the drawing itself is all His part."
Cont.
"Why does God need to draw us to salvation? Simply put, if He didn't we would never come. Jesus explains that no man can come unless the Father draws him, John 6:65.
The natural man has no ability to come to God, nor does he even have the desire to come. Because his heart is  hard and his mind is  darkened, the unregenerate person doesn't desire God and is actually an enemy of God, Romans 5:10."

Sound familiar?

Now here John Calvin's teaching on those who God will not draw because they were not chosen to be given the direct operation of the Holy Spirit.

Quote from Calvin:
"God preordained, for His glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a  part of the human race without any merit of their own to eternal salvation and another part in just punishment of their sin to eternal damnation."

Why? Because God chooses who will recieve the calling through the direct operation of the Holy Spirit.
This calling must be miraculous because man is so Totally Depraved that he would not and can not come to God nor does the lost desire God, without God miraculously regenerating the heart.

Which is Baptist theology.
The theology Dan teaches whether he knows it or not,
Quote from Danthemailman,

I do not misrepresent anyone!
I am not at fault for those whose religious beliefs come from ignorance of there origins.

You misrepresent which makes it impossible to have an honest and meaningful discussion with you. You also remain thoroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism and are unteachable.

Let me know when you arw ready to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. Until then, I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[Titus]

You misrepresent which makes it impossible to have an honest and meaningful discussion with you. You also remain thoroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism and are unteachable.

Let me know when you arw ready to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. Until then, I'm done wasting my time with you.

How did I misrepresent you?

I love this topic and I love the scriptures...but they should not perhaps be singled out as the focus of how God draws people to himself. The scriptures are rather only one product or evidence of His drawing people to Himself. In other words, the draw was not first written, but the still small voice of His spirit was first, and the scriptures only came as a result.

So, yes, the scriptures are very helpful in understanding that still small voice, and for some is even the starting point. Even so, many are still drawn first by that still small voice of His spirit. I am one. It was only after He drew me by the Spirit that I was also drawn to what is written, which then was a welcome confirmation.

I'm speaking of today not in the first century or the old testament.
To claim we need more than the Bible to believe is to deny its power and perfect completeness.
1Corinthians 1:18,
- For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The doctrine of direct revelation through miracles today is the main cause of the thousands of sects we now have.
Nealy every single newly formed denomination claims they received understanding apart from the Scriptures.
They all claim the Holy Spirit is directly guiding them to the truth.
Take the Methodist church for example.
They believe they have the Holy Spirit guiding them to include homosexuals as Gods saved people.
Scripture clearly condemns homosexuality.
When a sect goes against the Scriptures they are going against the Holy Spirit, for He taught us Gods will through the Scriptures.

All these men claiming to be directly led by the HS apart from His word cannot agree even on salvation.

Anyone with a little honesty can see this teaching of the HS guiding us apart from the word is a very dangerous and divisive doctrine.

Most all in "christiandom" today believe this.
And this is the source for all the division.

1Corinthians 1:10,
- Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Titus]

thoroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism and are unteachable.

Making a fuss over misrepresentation.
Now you misrepresent me by name calling, Campbellite.
I've never been a follower of Campbell and I never will be follower of Campbell.
You have misrepresented me with this false accusation multiple times.
Yet you continue as a personal attack, knowing I do not follow Campbell.
I follow the apostles doctrine,
Acts 2:42,
- and they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and in fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayers.

 

[Titus]

Let me know when you arw ready to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL

Your gospel is not the gospel Jesus teaches, Mark 16:15-16.
You try to exclude repentance out of your salvation gospel.
Dan, it does not make repentance unnecessary for salvation by moving it before faith as you do.
You know it is a work, therefore your churches gospel moves it before faith as an attempt to exclude a work from initial salvation.

Dan why wont you answer my question that I've asked you many times?
If faith alone saves as you claim, then can a person skip the repentance before they become a believer and be saved?

The 3000 Jews on pentecost first believed then repented then were baptized.
Acts 2:37,
- Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, men and brethren what shall we  do?
That's faith! They believed Peter's gospel sermon. That is the response of a believer.

Next after faith they repent not before faith, after.
Acts 2:38,
- Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Your gospel that you keep telling me to believe is not the gospel Peter preached.

Faith, repentance baptism is the Biblical order of the new testament gospel of Christ.

Trying to get repentance out of salvation Dan, is a warning sign your church does not like what the Bible teaches.

 

[Titus]

The Bible teaches repentance is a work,
Matthew 12:41,
- The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgement with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Jonah 3:10,
- Then God saw there works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

 

[ScottA]

I'm speaking of today not in the first century or the old testament.
To claim we need more than the Bible to believe is to deny its power and perfect completeness.
1Corinthians 1:18,
- For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The doctrine of direct revelation through miracles today is the main cause of the thousands of sects we now have.
Nealy every single newly formed denomination claims they received understanding apart from the Scriptures.
They all claim the Holy Spirit is directly guiding them to the truth.
Take the Methodist church for example.
They believe they have the Holy Spirit guiding them to include homosexuals as Gods saved people.
Scripture clearly condemns homosexuality.
When a sect goes against the Scriptures they are going against the Holy Spirit, for He taught us Gods will through the Scriptures.

All these men claiming to be directly led by the HS apart from His word cannot agree even on salvation.

Anyone with a little honesty can see this teaching of the HS guiding us apart from the word is a very dangerous and divisive doctrine.

Most all in "christiandom" today believe this.
And this is the source for all the division.

1Corinthians 1:10,
- Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I can't finish all you wrote...

You are as much as claiming the Holy Spirit no longer speaks, and only the Bible does.

That's not biblical.

 

[Titus]

I can't finish all you wrote...

You are as much as claiming the Holy Spirit no longer speaks, and only the Bible does.

That's not biblical.

No, He does speak. Through the word! You would not know of Him if He did not reveal Himself to you through the word.
Do you get direct revelation apart from the Holy Spirit revealed revelation of God?

 

[Titus]

John 5:39,
- You search the Scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life and these are they which testify of Me.

1John 5:13,
- These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[mailmandan]

How did I misrepresent you?

I'm speaking of today not in the first century or the old testament.
To claim we need more than the Bible to believe is to deny its power and perfect completeness.
1Corinthians 1:18,
- For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The doctrine of direct revelation through miracles today is the main cause of the thousands of sects we now have.
Nealy every single newly formed denomination claims they received understanding apart from the Scriptures.
They all claim the Holy Spirit is directly guiding them to the truth.
Take the Methodist church for example.
They believe they have the Holy Spirit guiding them to include homosexuals as Gods saved people.
Scripture clearly condemns homosexuality.
When a sect goes against the Scriptures they are going against the Holy Spirit, for He taught us Gods will through the Scriptures.

All these men claiming to be directly led by the HS apart from His word cannot agree even on salvation.

Anyone with a little honesty can see this teaching of the HS guiding us apart from the word is a very dangerous and divisive doctrine.

Most all in "christiandom" today believe this.
And this is the source for all the division.

1Corinthians 1:10,
- Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

You continue to falsely accuse me of teaching that the apostles were supernaturally blinded by God to not understand Jesus' teaching and it was fatalistically determined by God that their hearts were hardened in unbelief. I don't believe that their unbelief was fatalistically determined by God's choosing. It was their own freewill that kept them from believing at first that Jesus would be killed and resurrected. Once their hearts were softened Jesus came to them after His resurrection and opened their understanding to comprehend the Scriptures.

 

[mailmandan]

Making a fuss over misrepresentation.
Now you misrepresent me by name calling, Campbellite.
I've never been a follower of Campbell and I never will be follower of Campbell.
You have misrepresented me with this false accusation multiple times.
Yet you continue as a personal attack, knowing I do not follow Campbell.
I follow the apostles doctrine,
Acts 2:42,
- and they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and in fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayers.

It's no secret that the church of Christ is associated with the Restoration movement and with Campbellism. If you followed the apostles doctrine then you would not be teaching a "different" gospel that culminates in works righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

I can't finish all you wrote...

You are as much as claiming the Holy Spirit no longer speaks, and only the Bible does.

That's not biblical

Here is an article below that explains the errors of his teachings.

https://jesusiscreator.org/?p=777

 

[Johann]

Here is an article below that explains the errors of his teachings.

https://jesusiscreator.org/?p=777

I think there is a misunderstanding between you two--he is saying you are a Calvinist and you say he is a Campbellite.
Just an observation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is Titus a member of the CoC?

 

[mailmandan]

Titus said: Your gospel is not the gospel Jesus teaches, Mark 16:15-16.
You try to exclude repentance out of your salvation gospel.
Dan, it does not make repentance unnecessary for salvation by moving it before faith as you do.
You know it is a work, therefore your churches gospel moves it before faith as an attempt to exclude a work from initial salvation.

Dan why wont you answer my question that I've asked you many times?
If faith alone saves as you claim, then can a person skip the repentance before they become a believer and be saved?

Here is yet another false accusation from you. I do not exclude repentance out of my salvation gospel. (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21) We must first repent (change our mind) before we can believe the gospel and become saved.

This article below explains the confusion of the teachings by your church in regards to repentance and faith.

The Church of Christ Reverses the Order of Repentance and Faith

SOURCE: The Church of Christ gospel “plan” is to hear, believe, repent, confess, and be “water” baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Here it is reasoned that if one will simply perform these “5 st…

answeringthehardlinechurchofchrist.wordpress.com

The 3000 Jews on pentecost first believed then repented then were baptized.
Acts 2:37,
- Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, men and brethren what shall we  do?
That's faith! They believed Peter's gospel sermon. That is the response of a believer.

In Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him. *That is not saving faith yet. They still needed to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, which explains why they still needed to repent. Those who have truly repented have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Two sides of the same coin.

Next after faith they repent not before faith, after.
Acts 2:38,
- Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Your gospel that you keep telling me to believe is not the gospel Peter preached.

Faith, repentance baptism is the Biblical order of the new testament gospel of Christ.

Trying to get repentance out of salvation Dan, is a warning sign your church does not like what the Bible teaches.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

You teach a false gospel of salvation by water baptism and your continued slander is not going unnoticed.

 

[mailmandan]

Is Titus a member of the CoC?

Yes he is.

 

[Titus]

Yes he is.

Church Paul was in Romans 16:16.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes he is.

that explains alot.

One thing is for sure. You do not attend a calvinist based church. nor are you calvinist..