If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

[Wrangler]

Nonsense. Your view is to suppose a vending machine God, who gives you what YOU want and not what YOU DON’T WANT.

Also, your view of suffering is to suppose it is something God has an obligation to prevent us from experiencing. You have a lot to learn my friend. Good news; you’ve come to the right place.

Here is a story of suffering. Do you suppose a non-Christian would turn to the Christian God if not for suffering.

a non-christian asking for the christian's prayers

Might I humbly request, dear sir/madam, that you graciously bestow upon this destitute individual the benevolent act of offering prayers in his favor? Would it not elicit within you a profound sense of compassion and empathy to witness the sheer emaciation of his frame, resembling that of a...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[bbyrd009]

There is no all-knowing creator

fwiw i suggest that Yah is very real, even if He does not exist, and that you can verify this for yourself anytime you like

 

[Wrangler]

could you label a couple of your beliefs real quick?

you might notice that that is all Church 101? Stuff anyone basically gets in one Sunday in any cult of sol "church?"
you gonna stay there forever, or what
Wrangler

Typical goal post moving. You asked for a couple of beliefs. I gave you 7 foundational beliefs. But that was too basic for you for some reason.

In Bible Study a few weeks ago we talked about how simple the Gospel message is. Your reply confirms that the simplicity remains hard for people to grasp; people automatically think there must be more to it. God's word is not complicated; it's just not easy.

I think I will stay in these beliefs, yes. It's not that the beliefs mount up. Rather, one goes deeper in each point. For instance, what does it truly look like to love others?

 

[bbyrd009]

Typical goal post moving. You asked for a couple of beliefs. I gave you 7 foundational beliefs. But that was too basic for you for some reason.

well fwiw i realized even as i was typing it that beliefs about what might happen in the future would be studiously omitted, bc human nature, but that does not belie the fact that those beliefs are central to Christianity; i hardly need you to verify that iow. And i have already admitted that your Church 101 is fine, right, so the point was that the point was avoided, and you can either admit or ignore that you have omitted your most core beliefs, idc. Be the victim, ok with me

In Bible Study a few weeks ago we talked about how simple the Gospel message is. Your reply confirms that the simplicity remains hard for people to grasp; people automatically think there must be more to it. God's word is not complicated; it's just not easy.

while idk of course, my guess is that you havent really even started reading the Bible yet, else you would know...many things, that you currently seem ignorant of, that the Bible is not Word being just one of them. Im sure my reply might confirm something to you and thats ok too, but that doesnt mean it is true right? It mostly confirms to me that you are dedicated to being the overlord, the One in the Superior Position, the Head iow, like pretty much every other professor of self/believer is? Which i am as susceptible to as anyone, dont get me wrong

I think I will stay in these beliefs, yes. It's not that the beliefs mount up. Rather, one goes deeper in each point. For instance, what does it truly look like to love others?

i think that would depend upon how one defines love, but wadr we have already seen that your definitions do not match up very well with others...and again, this is not meant as condemnation, it is very common i think, imo it is even "speaking in tongues," which i think we all do, and the secret might be to get hearing?

so, my point there--which i do not expect you to hear or understand right now; maybe never--is that it is easy to find oneself as a believer going over and over the elementary things, and kind of not knowing how to even escape that. Bam stay in those beliefs as long as that seems right to you, and i certainly dont mean that i am necessarily any better off, or more saved, ok?

but my definition of Love is not going to serve you much right now i guess, sorry

 

[Wrangler]

well fwiw i realized even as i was typing it that beliefs about what might happen in the future would be studiously omitted, bc human nature, but that does not bely the fact that those beliefs are central to Christianity

You really ought to start a separate thread about this.

I keep getting the feeling you want me to defend prophecy. Simply put, I'm not into that. However, there are others here who are and are much more knowledgable than I am.

 

[Wrangler]

so, my point ...is that it is easy to find oneself as a believer going over and over the elementary things

Hmmm. Nothing wrong with a frequent return to fundamental principles. Why do you imply it is wrong to review the basics?

but my definition of Love is not going to serve you much right now i guess, sorry

Friend, you have it all wrong. I'm not seeking to serve myself. Love is serving others.

 

[bbyrd009]

You really ought to start a separate thread about this.

I keep getting the feeling you want me to defend prophecy. Simply put, I'm not into that. However, there are others here who are and are much more knowledgable than I am.

ha well ppl with even more knowledge/meat, i srsly have no interest in their opinions stated as Absolute Truths either, wadr

plus i am out the door, prolly couldnt start a thread here/now even if i wanted to lol

Hmmm. Nothing wrong with a frequent return to fundamental principles

he said with utter confidence, as if he were correct

Why do you imply it is wrong to review the basics?

um, its a Bible thing, so wadr just another Scriptural principle that i doubt would serve you much right now
id offer to Quote the passage but i doubt you are even still reading down this far
but yes, certainly, there is something wrong with that

Friend, you have it all wrong. I'm not seeking to serve myself. Love is serving others.

"Your love's like rhinestones, falling from the sky"
know what that means, Wrangler?

im sorry i didnt do this...better, lol, but i guess milk and meat just dont mix, and there might not even be a better way than to just refrain, dunno. I used to get bothered by posters tagging me while not addressing the points in my posts, not really having a conversation at all, like we're doing here? But i kind of get it now, even expect it, sadly enough. After all you are not required to address or i guess even acknowledge your most cherished beliefs, so why not just change the subject instead lol

anyway, its been good...ha, why lie, its been frustrating, pretending to have a conversation with you, but i wish you the best of luck, and i hope you might find your way out of Esau someday ok

 

[bbyrd009]

and best wishes to all, goodbye

 

[Wrangler]

id offer to Quote the passage but i doubt you are even still reading down this far

??? I read what you write, even if I don’t respond to every point.

 

[Wrangler]

yes, certainly, there is something wrong with that

Yet, you don’t say what is wrong with a frequent return to fundamental principles. I call BS.

 

[Wrangler]

"Your love's like rhinestones, falling from the sky"
know what that means, Wrangler?

No. But you don’t seem like much of a believer in God. What would you have me do?

 

[Wrangler]

i guess milk and meat just dont mix

My pastor said recently nothing is deeper, meatier than loving God and loving others.

 

[Lapidem]

It is flattering that you use the Bible as an authority. Keep in mind that even Christ made a prayer not answered.

No not an authority. It's an important set of works because despite the censorship and editing by the Church it still contains some vital secrets hidden in allegorical language and cryptic text. When I quote Bible verses I mostly do so to expose the utter hypocrisy of the silly Christian mainstream religion which believes the Bible can't be wrong. I quote things to expose hypocritical Christians so they can see that the Bible says one thing and they say another. Not to suggest the Bible is an authority at all, simply to highlight that the belief system itself is an utter nonsense, doesn't stand up, doesn't hold water and is rally just an oppressive psychological system to control people.

 

[Lapidem]

i think it might be a little simplistic to say it is God’s will, or that He stands idly by; these amount to characterizations that might not apply, ergo they are really just opinions. It is as relevant—likely more so—to say that anyone so foolish as to trust him deserves what they get, i think, although it might seem convenient to blame God, sure. So your tangible answer is that the children are exposed by the parents, not God
imo

I can't agree here. It really is very simplistic. If a parent came home from work and found that a predator was in the bedroom pinning down their 5yr old daughter and sexually abusing them then that parent would take action. If they had any love in them at all they would take action. To stand there and do nothing would be utterly sick and show the parent to bee utterly evil.

Duped Christians believe there is an all-powerful and all-loving God. There patently isn't for the reason given above. No loving entity would stand idly by if they had the power to stop an innocent child being abused. You'd have to be either weak and impotent or simply indifferent/malevolent to stand there whilst it happened. Lame and very indoctrinated Christians oft use the excuse of "free will" to try and sweep such inconvenient things under the carpet but clearly whilst the predator has free will, thee innocent 5yr old girl does not. Therein lies the fallacy of such apologetic attempts.

All of which brings us to the obvious conclusion which is that we have very likely totally misunderstood who and what god is and the Church has wilfully mislead billions of humans into their concept of an all-powerful, all-loving entity so they can peddle their control system.

The answers clearly lie elsewhere

 

[Lapidem]

Nonsense. Your view is to suppose a vending machine God, who gives you what YOU want and not what YOU DON’T WANT.

No that can't be my view because I know your silly concept of God dos not exist. However what I've done is highlighted numerous verses in thee Bible that clearly state YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU ASK FOR. Given that you don't get what you ask for we can thus see the Bible is in error if taken literally. That's the key point.

Also, your view of suffering is to suppose it is something God has an obligation to prevent us from experiencing.

It would be an obligation of an all-powerful and all-loving entity. It wouldn't be an obligation of an indifferent entity or a weak impotent one. Remember we have every right to expect any would-be ruler to demonstrate the behaviours we would deem to be worthy and right otherwise there's no point worshipping them. We might as well go worship Hitler and Pol Pott if we aren't going to require a ruler to show model behaviours. A fact most Christians don't really think about.

 

[Lapidem]

Yah might even be literally powerless to act, as we have been granted dominion of this domain
ever consider that?

Yes, and that's what I'm iterating. The notion of an all-powerful all-loving god is patently absurd. If there's a god then it is either powerless to act or indifferent to human suffering. Doesn't matter which, which ever it is its not a god worth worshipping.

 

[Lapidem]

Here is a story of suffering. Do you suppose a non-Christian would turn to the Christian God if not for suffering.

What is wrong with your mind/head????

The notion that an entity would cause horrific suffering as a way to get people to worship them is utterly wicked and repugnant. I can't believe how indoctrinated you have become.

The OP in that thread is wasting his time. Christians believe God controls everything so that poor chap is in that sorry state because god wants it, because god as caused it or allowed it. Praying against that would be blasphemy. It would be to not accept god's will. Deal with that !

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, and that's what I'm iterating. The notion of an all-powerful all-loving god is patently absurd. If there's a god then it is either powerless to act or indifferent to human suffering. Doesn't matter which, which ever it is its not a god worth worshipping.

True worship is helping orphans and widows in their time of need so wadr im not too hip on this Believer's Definition of "worship" that you seem so intent upon denigrating; strikes me as another moot point, sorry

The notion of an all-powerful all-loving god is patently absurd

well as we have already discussed, and you are aware of, Yah admits to creating evil

If there's a god then it is either powerless to act or indifferent to human suffering

well, so you say, but you seem to make no allowances for self-inflicted suffering at all, as in the case of irresponsibility viz ones children; is it God's responsibility to twinkle His nose and solve all problems? What are you doing to curtail all this human suffering that you seem so upset about? Personally i am not suffering at all, and my kids arent either, so wadr i am not sure where this is coming from tbh. I think we live in a pretty much perfect place, and pretty much everyone seems to get what they give away, imaginary and unconfirmed molested children aside. And for those that are real then cant their parents sue?

but really i think you are just inventing maladjusted scenarios as reasons to disavow God, tbh.
I mean, let's go find some victims to blame God about much? If that putz Jerry Seville molested any kids, this is certainly the right climate to sue for damages in, eh?

but really all most of this is is looking for the bad, rather than celebrating the good, imo. We have made huge strides in the last thousand years, and i srsly doubt that you would prefer to live in 1023 over 2023 if you had the option?

 

[Lapidem]

True worship is helping orphans and widows in their time of need so wadr im not too hip on this Believer's Definition of "worship" that you seem so intent upon denigrating; strikes me as another moot point, sorry

This has the air of the Fraternity about it . . .

 

[Wrangler]

the belief system ... doesn't stand up

Longevity: The Judeo-Christian belief system has been around for 4,000 years, since the time of Abraham.

Members: More than any other belief system.

Your critic does not stand up.