No More Death

[Earburner]

That doesn't come from the bible.

Your proposed 2 witnesses, will they...
1. Come at different times, within their generation, but shall know each other?
2. Have the Holy Spirit of God at birth?
3. Begin their ministries in Israel?
4. Die at different times, during ministry?
5. Be resurrected in the same day?
6. Cause many people of the world to rejoice over them, and send gifts to one another?

 

[Timtofly]

Do you mean the new birth? The birth that comes to mankind in time, and is from above? The new birth mankind MUST partake of to know and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God? The birth that living human beings obtain by the Holy Spirit in them? If this is what you mean by the second birth, it is not a second birth but is NEW, and mankind is able to obtain this NEW birth through Christ, Who is the first resurrection from the dead. When mankind has part in this new birth, he/she has gone from being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, to being spiritually alive by Christ's Spirit in us. Even those who have eternal spiritual life in Him physically die. But there is no fear of physical death for all who have part in this new birth from above. Because they will be physically resurrected to immortal and incorruptible bodies when the last trump sounds.

It is the second birth, because Jesus said, "ye must be born again". The first birth is physical. The second birth is spiritual into God's family.

 

[ewq1938]

Your proposed 2 witnesses, will they...
1. Come at different times, within their generation, but shall know each other?

Rev 11 doesn't give such specifics. It says they have 1260 days and part of them are the two prophets (two olive trees) that will be killed publicly.

2. Have the Holy Spirit of God at birth?

The bible doesn't say when they receive the HS.

3. Begin their ministries in Israel?

The bible doesn't say where.

4. Die at different times, during ministry?

The bible only speaks of the death of the two prophets. We aren't told if the two churches are also killed. (people of churches not buildings)

5. Be resurrected in the same day?

Yes, the same day.

6. Cause many people of the world to rejoice over them, and send gifts to one another?

They will do that after the two prophets are killed.

 

[Earburner]

So stop attributing Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3 as just some Jewish concept.

See them as the Word of God.

You are turning God’s Holy Word into some spirit of antichrist.

2 Peter 3 and Revelation 20 is the mind of Christ.
Sdb5
Have there been 6,000 years since Adam disobeyed or not?

The Jews have their method of counting time, without the reference of BC or AD.
Some have shown that we are 217 years away from THEIR "messianic age" and THEIR mortal messiah, who is soon to show up in Israel. As of April 2023, by the Gregorian Calendar, the Jewish year is now 5783.

Year 6000 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yeah, I know! It won't be the Lord Jesus Christ from heaven, coming in all His Immortal Glory, in flaming fire.

No one, who is born again and is walking in His Holy Spirit, will make the mistake of falling for persuasive compliance (strong delusion), to believe that mandatory World Peace is the will of God.
The Premils and Postmils however, may have some difficulty.

Don't be one of those who will be of "the falling away". Remember, Jesus shall come when least expected. He shall suddenly come to His temple, the body of Christ, His "born again" church.

Oh, BTW, please notice the statue of "beating a plowshare" in the site I posted.
That statue is on the grounds of the UN building. That organization is "the Image of the beast".

 

[Earburner]

These are God’s ages to come. God’s ages are plural. There is the age of grace, and then the Millennium of Jesus ruling on earth.

"That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

The exceeding riches will be seen in the Millennium reign, even more so than they do now.

"These are God’s ages to come. God’s ages are plural. There is the age of grace, and then the Millennium of Jesus ruling on earth."

Nope! That is not what the Textus Receptus Greek Text (KJV) says.

 

[rwb]

It is the second birth, because Jesus said, "ye must be born again". The first birth is physical. The second birth is spiritual into God's family.

Yes, we must be born again! He does not say we must be born all over, nor does He say the new birth will be physical. In fact He says exactly the opposite. Nicodemus also believed to be born again meant we must enter again into our mother's womb and be physically born. Christ was not speaking of physical birth, after all Nicodemus had already been born physically. So Christ in essence says to him, don't be ridiculous Nicodemus, to understand and enter into the Kingdom of God you must be born again of the Spirit, because that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Of course, since the flesh is destined to die, for us to have eternal life through His Spirit we must be born from above, born again through His Spirit in us. Just as Christ asks Nicodemus why he does not understand this, so too I ask you why you cannot understand that being born again is to partake of eternal life through His Spirit. That is the first resurrection, that is given through Christ to those who believe Him and are already physically alive but spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. The first resurrection is in Christ through His Spirit, it is not physical but spiritual. The physical bodily resurrection of all who are in the graves will be in the hour coming. There will be no physical resurrection for any man before the last trumpet sounds. The physical resurrection that shall come when the last trump sounds the hour has come, all of the dead will be physically resurrected to life or damnation.

 

[Earburner]

Our conversation and responses surrounded your false claims in post #495 below, stating Jesus was going to be one of the (Two Witnesses) stop the false distraction

Earburner, Quote Post #495 Below

"Yes, though you may not follow or agree with me on this, the two witnesses are John the Baptist and Jesus."

Well, for certain we can count Elijah out.
Mat. 11
[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elias [Elijah], which was for to come.

>>Very important:
[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

One down, one to go!
Surely you are not going to cancel out Jesus, as being the First of God's choice of the two witnesses now, are you??

 

[Truth7t7]

Well, for certain we can count Elijah out.
Mat. 11
[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
[14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elias [Elijah], which was for to come.

>>Very important:
[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

One down, one to go!
Surely you are not going to cancel out Jesus, as being one of God's two witnesses now, are you??

Jesus "Was Dead", and "He Is Alive Forever", he holds the keys of "Death"!

You want to put (The Beast) killing Jesus, and put him in a dead body, laying in a Jerusalem street, as a wicked world watches in celebration, "Morbid"!

Revelation 1:18KJV
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 11:6-11KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[Earburner]

You want to put (The Beast) killing Jesus, and put him in a dead body, laying in a Jerusalem street, as a wicked world watches in celebration, "Morbid"!

As usual, your fleshly mind is working feverishly overtime, while the mind of Christ within you stands by, waiting for your human mind to burn itself out.

Rejoicing over the Lord's death as an unsaved sinner, is wickedness.
But... for born again Christians, THE LORD EXPECTS US TO rejoice in Him, even His death!!
We DO rejoice over His death in thankfulness, everytime when we enter into Holy Communion with the Lord.
1 Cor. 11[26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

So now I ask: what is your tradition and outward show of love at Christmas time?
Whether a person is a Christian or not, the whole world, to some degree, participates in it, even though for different reasons.

 

[Earburner]

Rev. 11:8
The words: "Where also our Lord was crucified" is nothing but a description of where the great city is, and who is in it.
It is "Jerusalem of the Jews", also known to God as being the city of His former chosen people, but now they are no different (being equal) in wickedness, as that of Sodom and Egypt.

 

[Truth7t7]

So now I ask: what is your tradition and outward show of love at Christmas time?
Whether a person is a Christian or not, the whole world, to some degree, participates in it, even though for different reasons.

I don't observe Christmas or Easter, they are both of non-christian pagan origin

(Christmas) is the pagan winter solstice and rebirth of the sun

(Easter) surrounds the vernal equinox and pagan fertility rites at spring time

Jesus directed the church to remember his "Death" in taking the bread and cup at communion, "Period"

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Earburner]

I don't observe Christmas or Easter, they are both of non-christian pagan origin

(Christmas) is the pagan winter solstice and rebirth of the sun

(Easter) surrounds the vernal equinox and pagan fertility rites at spring time

Jesus directed the church to remember his "Death" in taking the bread and cup at communion, "Period"

Jesus Is The Lord

BUT....
you missed the most obvious point, and then went on a rant with the myopic view of how your fleshly brain understands scripture, getting all confused, like holding up words to a mirror, attempting to learn what the words say.
No......
Not by might [mental effort], nor by power [religious persuasion], but BY MY Spirit [mind], saith the LORD of hosts. Zech. 4:6.

Truth7t7 said:
"Jesus directed the church to remember his "Death" in taking the bread and cup at communion, "Period".
So then, are you personally thankful to the Lord for His DEATH, in church service of Holy Communion?
Do you sing/rejoice with hymns/songs unto the Lord, during that service. I believe that you do!

Do you dwell on the earth?
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented [to try] them that dwelt on the earth.
Aren't you rejoiceful that the Lord tormented/tried YOU?
I am sure that you are!!
If He didn't, you never would have come to repentance towards God, through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Guilty as charged: for rejoicing over the Lord's death for your salvation.

 

[Patrick1966]

Aren't you rejoiceful that the Lord tormented/tried YOU?

Most Christians misunderstand the definition and purpose of "torment" in the Bible.

 

[Patrick1966]

Guilty as charged: for rejoicing over the Lord's death for your salvation.

I guess I'm more inclined to "rejoice" over Jesus's love for us and his willingness to sacrifice himself, but not so much over his gruesome execution. But, maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Earburner]

I guess I'm more inclined to "rejoice" over Jesus's love for us and his willingness to sacrifice himself, but not so much over his gruesome execution. But, maybe I'm missing something.

No you are not misunderstanding anything. You do have the knowledge of the Lord's truth, about how it is that we are tormented (tried) by God, to come to God in repentance, through faith in Jesus, so that we may receive the Faith OF Jesus, God's Gift of His Holy Spirit, to be born again.
Through that trying of us, of which can be tormentuous, "many are called [and are not born again], but few chosen [who are born again]."

As the words are written in Rev. 11, I chose to dispel the false belief through those words, of how so many Christians misunderstand who it really is that rejoices over the death of the two witnesses.

In all the world, out every generation, there has been NO ONE who has been been physically born at birth, HAVING the Holy Spirit, except John the Baptist and Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

5. Be resurrected in the same day?

ewq 1938 replied:
Yes, the same day.

Correct! The two witnesses, Jesus and John the Baptist, were resurrected in the same day.
Mat. 27
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

John the Baptist would have been among them!

 

[Earburner]

2. Have the Holy Spirit of God at birth?

ewq1938 replied:
The bible doesn't say when they receive the HS.

Actually, it does say that John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

As for Jesus, who is literally of Holy Spirit, by faith we all should be in agreement of that fact, because of Who He is.

 

[ewq1938]

In all the world, out every generation, there has been NO ONE who has been been physically born at birth, HAVING the Holy Spirit, except John the Baptist and Jesus.

What scriptures say this about them?

 

[ewq1938]

ewq 1938 replied:
Yes, the same day.

Correct! The two witnesses, Jesus and John the Baptist, were resurrected in the same day.
Mat. 27
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

John the Baptist would have been among them!

Says you. The other issue is it does not say they went up into heaven but went to Jerusalem. Clearly not a match. Rev 11 is future, not past.

You don't even know what the two witnesses are, let alone can identify the two olive trees of them.

 

[ewq1938]

ewq1938 replied:
The bible doesn't say when they receive the HS.

Actually, it does say that John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

As for Jesus, who is literally of Holy Spirit, by faith we all should be in agreement of that fact, because of Who He is.

Then why did he receive the HS, if he already had the HS?

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.