Mungo,
I go by what Jesus said. My soul is the most valuable that I have and I trust it to noone except Jesus. Not a concept, but what Jesus said. Romans 8:27 and he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Who searches our hearts? Jesus does. Who is the Spirit? The Holy Spirit and he interceeds to God for the saints according to God's will. Notice he interceeds for the saints, not saints interceeds.
So you don’t believe in the Trinity then since that word is not in scripture?
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousands instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Read verse 14. Paul is calling the people his sons. Corinth was the most immoral city in the world at that time. anything went in way of worshipping the many Gods. Paul is taking a parental tone with the church there. He is not calling anyone father, he is using it in a term to describe the paternal parent.
1 John 2:3 Are you sure you have the verse you wanted? And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. What has that to do with oour discussion? Act 7:2 If you notice, Paul was not calling anyone Father, but again refering to a paternal parent. Abraham was the paternal parent of the Hebrew nation.
Mungo,
to resume... Matthew 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Once again, Jesus is refering to paternal parents. Luke 16:24 And he cried and said Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. Jesus is telling a parable, but consider who is calling out for Abraham? James 2 :21 is also again refering to the paternal parent, not calling Abraham "Father."
I am still not convinced by scriptures that it is ok to call a priest as father or the pope as holy father. Give me the scriptures.
You are making a distinction between a parental father and non parental father that is not in scripture.
If you take Jesus literally then you must not call anyone father, including a parental father. Jesus didn’t say call no man father except your male parent.
“I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.” (1Jn 2:13)
John is not addressing his own father.
“Blessed is the kingdom of our father David that is coming!”(Mk 11:10)
People were not referring to their own parental father
“And Stephen said: "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2)
Stephen was not referring to his own parental father
I urge you on behalf of my child Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment (Philemon 1:10)
Paul was not Onesimus’ parental father.
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” (Jas 2:21)
Abraham was not James’ parental father.
In the same speech that Jesus says (call no man father” he says “Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.” (Mt 23:32)
The problem I think lies (as so often) in language.
According to a Greek Orthodox priest, who is also a Greek translator, the word translated “call” in Mt 23:9 is misunderstood. I do not understand the technicalities of Greek but apparently the word used (
kalesete) is not any of those used to imply a name or title, but means summon or call forth and is in the second person aorist active subjunctive plural form (and no, I don’t understand what that is!).
It’s the same word that is translated call in Mt 9:13 & Lk 5:32. “For I came not to call (
kalesai) the righteous, but sinners.” So Jesus is not referring to calling someone father in the sense of giving them the title father.
It’s also worth noting that in scripture back in the book of Judges a priest was referred to as a father.(Jg 17:10 & 18:19)
Also, give me scriptures that gives the concept of purgetory or praying for somone in purgatory, or to a saint. I warn you, I will look up every scripture and check it out. I do the same to my minster with everyone of his sermons. Like I said I trust no one with my soul, but Jesus. I also respect your right to believe as you wish and I love you.
Grandma
Do you really want to go into purgatory? It must have been done many times before.
I’m willing to discuss it but only if you are in for the long haul.
All Non-Catholic Approved Bible Translations, Are Forbidden and Condemned, and Heretical
"This is the goal too of the crafty Bible Societies which renew the old skill of the heretics and ceaselessly force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible. They issue these in large numbers and at great cost, in vernacular (language of the people) translations, which infringe the holy rules of the Church. The commentaries which are included often contain perverse explanations; so, having rejected divine tradition, the doctrine of the Fathers and the authority of the Catholic Church, they all interpret the words of the Lord by their own private judgment, thereby perverting their meaning. As a result, they fall into the greatest errors. Gregory XVI of happy memory, Our superior predecessor, followed the lead of his own predecessors in rejecting these societies in his apostolic letters.
It is Our will to condemn them likewise." Pope Pius IX, Qui Pluribus (On Faith And Religion), Encyclical promulgated on November 9, 1846, #14.
You may want to read this again.
"The commentaries which are included often contain perverse explanations; so, having rejected divine tradition, the doctrine of the Fathers and the authority of the Catholic Church"
There is no other position possible, it is the Catholic Church or fall into the greatest errors.
Reading the Bible essentially outside of the juristiction of the RCC is heresy.
What is your opinion on this?
I don’t see the Pope here condemning Protestant translations of the Bible per se. He seems to be condemning Bible Societies who “force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible” which contain many errors, not in the translation but in commentaries - that is with false (“perverse”) interpretations in footnotes.
Would you want uneducated people to be given the Book of Mormon or the New World Translation as genuine Christian texts, not realising how false they are?
The Pope is merely trying to protect the flock from falsehoods.