the 7th Trump

[Truth7t7]

The fact is God desires for you see more = Romans 8:18-21

Romans 8 is a FACT that cannot be overided, overruled, disavowed or nullified

What are you claiming Dave, put it in plain English?

Do you believe in a future, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem?

If so when does this take place, at the return of Jesus?

 

[David in NJ]

What are you claiming Dave, put it in plain English?

Do you believe in a future, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem?

If so when does this take place, at the return of Jesus?

What does the Holy Spirit factually state in Romans 8:18-21

Go over it line by line.

 

[Truth7t7]

What does the Holy Spirit factually state in Romans 8:18-21

Go over it line by line.

You tell me what it states?

What are you claiming Dave, put it in plain English?

Do you believe in a future, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem?

If so when does this take place, at the return of Jesus?

 

[David in NJ]

You tell me what it states?

What are you claiming Dave, put it in plain English?

Do you believe in a future, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem?

If so when does this take place, at the return of Jesus?

New Heaven and New Earth that will be accomplished only AFTER the 1,000 Years of Rev ch20.

Romans 8:18-21 comes FIRST

 

[ewq1938]

Why would you place Armageddon where you did?

Because it's the last event of the second coming.

 

[ewq1938]

A Rapture to heaven of the Church is nowhere stated in the Bible

And nowhere stated in my post so file this under "strawman fallacy". You still deny a rapture yet a rapture is biblical.

, But Jesus said six times that it was impossible for humans to go to heaven

The rapture isn't about going to the third heaven but Jesus never once said what you claim.

The Bible describes the GWT Judgment. I believe and promote it as Written.
Just because you have other ideas about who and when resurrection and immortality are conferred, your objections are overruled by the truths of scripture.

This avoidance only proves that I have proven immortality comes at the second coming. Your position that immortality only comes at the GWTJ is unscriptural.

There are over 100 Prophesies that vividly describe the Lords terrible Day of fiery wrath. After that Day, the world will never be the same again. Denial of what we are told will come, is just 'head in the sand'.
.

Nope, it's just the truth about the 6th seal. Remember that's the seal you claim is about a fiery wrath yet the seal doesn't mention fire at all? That's Eisegesis on your part.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you see any point in that?

Yes.

Will the saints suffer the GT only to miss the Millennial reign?

Nope.

Or do you understand it as a U-Turn Rapture?
Which is pointless, as well.

It is not pointless and all versions of the rapture are a "U-turn" since all return to the Earth at some point in all the versions of the doctrine.

How do we weigh what we are gathering from study with common sense?
Unless we prefer to accept these things as seemingly senseless acts of God.
Maybe the authors/copyists/editors/translators/commentators got it wrong?

Nope.

 

[ewq1938]

That has nothing to do with the fact, when Jesus returns its "The End", the last Trump has blown, the final judgement takes place, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

This isn't scriptural. After the end is the rule over the nations according to Jesus:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.

 

[Truth7t7]

New Heaven and New Earth that will be accomplished only AFTER the 1,000 Years of Rev ch20.

Romans 8:18-21 comes FIRST

Dave scripture below teaches that when Jesus returns its "Fire Time", Do you deny the fire seen below?

It Appears There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[David in NJ]

Dave scripture below teaches that when Jesus returns its "Fire Time", Do you deny the fire seen below?

It Appears There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Got Marshmallows

 

[Truth7t7]

Got Marshmallows

Because you have no answer to the biblical truth presented Dave, it destroys your claims of a millennial kingdom on this earth and you know it

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

1 Samuel 15:23a
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

 

[St. SteVen]

Because it's the last event of the second coming.

What marks the end of the Millennium then?
What happens when Satan and the Beast are released from the pit?

 

[David in NJ]

Because you have no answer to the biblical truth presented Dave, it destroys your claims of a millennial kingdom on this earth and you know it

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

1 Samuel 15:23a
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

Sometimes we have to laugh together, especially when i am in pain.

Peace Tr7

 

[ewq1938]

What marks the end of the Millennium then?
What happens when Satan and the Beast are released from the pit?

That is the answer to the first question except the beast is not released from the pit because the beast went to the LOF. When satan is released, this is what happens:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[St. SteVen]

That is the answer to the first question except the beast is not released from the pit because the beast went to the LOF. When satan is released, this is what happens:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Thanks for your patience in calmly explaining these things to me. Much appreciated.

Doesn't this place Armageddon at the end of the Millennium?
Or is this another battle?

Also interesting is the phrase "the four quarters of the earth". (4 corners)
A flat earth view. But that's another topic.

 

[ewq1938]

Thanks for your patience in calmly explaining these things to me. Much appreciated.

Doesn't this place Armageddon at the end of the Millennium?

No. Armageddon happens in Rev 19, at the end of the vials of wrath which pout at the second coming. Arm is over before the Millennium begins.

Or is this another battle?

I assume you refer to the battle of Jerusalem, which happens after the Mill is over. It is a different battle than Arm which is about 66 miles from Jerusalem.

Also interesting is the phrase "the four quarters of the earth". (4 corners)
A flat earth view. But that's another topic.

The flat Earth theory is round like a coin and does not have corners.

 

[David in NJ]

No. Armageddon happens in Rev 19, at the end of the vials of wrath which pout at the second coming. Arm is over before the Millennium begins.




I assume you refer to the battle of Jerusalem, which happens after the Mill is over. It is a different battle than Arm which is about 66 miles from Jerusalem.



The flat Earth theory is round like a coin and does not have corners.

a globe does not have corners either = "four corners" designate North East South and West and constitutes the entire area of earth n sea

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation chapter 11 the 7th Trumpet announces the Return of Christ

This occurs first:

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:

“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”

Revelation chapter 20 clarifies a 1,000 Year Rule of Christ before the GWT Judgment.

That does not declare a Second Coming. That declares the final harvest is over, and the wicked have been removed. When the wicked are removed, that is the point each nation is 100% under the authority of Jesus as King. Jesus and the angels have already been on the earth removing both the redeemed and the wicked. All have been physically removed from the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

As I understand it, there are four doctrines of the Rapture. Pre-/Mid-/Post-/Pan
At least three have biblical support. So... I wouldn't label any of them as "false". IMHO
Which view do you subscribe to? And on what do you base that choice?
Some do no t believe in a Rapture at all. That's another option.

The rapture is at the Second Coming. There is not any other Biblical view, but that one. Every other view is wrong, and the placement of the Second Coming is wrong, by the majority of posters.

 

[Timtofly]

At the Second Coming of Christ is the Resurrection followed immediately by the Rapture = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15 , Heb 9:28

The Resurrection has been an ongoing phenomenon since the Cross.

Even Paul could not prevent those when he was alive to rise first. They are already risen. Once Paul himself entered Paradise, no one on earth could prevent nor stop that. So, no belief system will change that fact. The dead in Christ have risen first.