the 7th Trump

[ewq1938]

I suppose it depends on your view of Christ coming to gather the saints. ???

Christ placed the gathering of the saints after the GT has ended, Matthew 24.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm mostly just stirring things up to promote discussion.

When I used to attend End Times conferences, those folks were always Pre-Trib.
I figured they were best educated on the subject, so I didn't give the other views a lot of thought.

Which view of the Rapture do you support? Or a "no Rapture" view?
Eschatology is not my strong suit. As I understand it here is the timeline.

- Rapture
- Tribulation
- Second Coming
- Millennial Reign
- Armageddon
- Final judgement

A more biblical order would be:


- Tribulation
- Second Coming
- Resurrection
- Rapture
- Armageddon
- Millennial Reign
- Final judgement

 

[ewq1938]

Here's a question.
What is the point of a Post-Tribulation Rapture?

Jesus wants to return with his saints but the saints alive on the Earth are scattered all over the Earth so a rapture is needed to bring them all from where ever each person is to one central location in the clouds so they can as a group follow Christ downward to the Earth.

What are we being raptured from?
Isn't that a U-Turn Rapture?

Tehy do return to the Earth but as a group, no longer separated and scattered all over the Earth.

Or will we miss the Millennium?

The Mill is a rule over the mortal nations by those who resurrected and those who were raptured.

 

[Keraz]

Every Blood washed Saint receives Eternal Life thru the Lord Jesus Christ before we leave this earth.

ONLY after the Judgment; Hebrews 9:27
We never leave the earth, The new Jerusalem comes to us. Revelation 21:1-7

Immortal Glorified Resurrected Bodies comes at His Second Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15 , 1 John 3:1-3

The only dead people resurrected when Jesus Returns, will be the GT martyrs. Rev 20:4 Back to mortal like.
Only mortal people and animals are in the Millennium; Isaiah 65:20

 

[ewq1938]

ONLY after the Judgment; Hebrews 9:27
We never leave the earth, The new Jerusalem comes to us. Revelation 21:1-7

The only dead people resurrected when Jesus Returns, will be the GT martyrs. Rev 20:4 Back to mortal like.

The only resurrection in the endtimes for the saved is to immortality. There is no return to mortality resurrection for the saved in endtimes prophecy.

Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1Co_15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co_15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Keraz]

A more biblical order would be:


- Tribulation
- Second Coming
- Resurrection
- Rapture
- Armageddon
- Millennial Reign
- Final judgement

A more Biblically correct order is:

The Sixth Seal world changer
A One World Govt formed.
Led by the 'beast' who desecrates the new Temple.
The 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation
Armageddon
Millennium reign of King Jesus
The final Judgment
Eternity.

There is no 'rapture', and the general resurrection happens at the GWT Judgment/

 

[ewq1938]

A more Biblically correct order is:

The Sixth Seal world changer
A One World Govt formed.
Led by the 'beast' who desecrates the new Temple.
The 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation
Armageddon
Millennium reign of King Jesus
The final Judgment
Eternity.

There is no 'rapture', and the general resurrection happens at the GWT Judgment/

You don't even have the most important event, the second coming and you deny a rapture which is fully biblical and you are wrong about everything related to the resurrection for the GWTJ. The 6th seal doesn't change anything in the world in the slightest, no more than the things Christ spoke about in the OD changed anything in the world at that time.

 

[Keraz]

You don't even have the most important event, the second coming

If you actually read Revelation 19:11-21, you would know the Jesus Returns to win the Battle of Armageddon.

and you deny a rapture which is fully biblical

A Rapture to heaven of the Church is nowhere stated in the Bible, But Jesus said six times that it was impossible for humans to go to heaven

you are wrong about everything related to the resurrection for the GWTJ

The Bible describes the GWT Judgment. I believe and promote it as Written.
Just because you have other ideas about who and when resurrection and immortality are conferred, your objections are overruled by the truths of scripture.

The 6th seal doesn't change anything in the world in the slightest

There are over 100 Prophesies that vividly describe the Lords terrible Day of fiery wrath. After that Day, the world will never be the same again. Denial of what we are told will come, is just 'head in the sand'.
.
.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Here's a question.
What is the point of a Post-Tribulation Rapture?
What are we being raptured from?
Isn't that a U-Turn Rapture?
Or will we miss the Millennium?

The Lord Jesus Christ said HE is the Way the Truth and the Life.

As HE is the Way, HE says to us: "take up your cross and follow Me."

If you take the time this week to read 1 Thessalonians you will see the Apostle Paul instructing them that tribulation, even unto death, is expected for us who have been Saved and are now a inseparable part of Christ.

What we are promised by God thru Christ and in 1 Thessalonians is this = "Jesus our Deliverer from the wrath to come".

2 Thessalonians follows with the same theme = tribulation from the world against the Saved but deliverence from the Wrath of God.

A pointless rapture then?
Why would those who survived the Great Tribulation be taken away before the Millennium begins?
Unless we are talking about a U-Turn Rapture. ???
Nothing rapturous about any of that. IMHO

Would not the Second Coming and the beginning of the Millennium be enough relief from the Great Tribulation?
No need, nor purpose, for a Post-Trib Rapture in my estimation. Mid-Trib, or Pre-Trib makes much more sense.
A Rapture FROM something.

Surprised you didn't ask me about my Pan-Trib stance.

Please let this be engraven in your mind and heart = 1 Thess 3:13 and 4:13-14

I'll pass on graven images. - LOL
O know, I know... not what you meant.
(hard to resist such a good set-up)
Anyway, let's look at those.

1 Thessalonians 3:13 NIV
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy
in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 NIV
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,
so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God
will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

 

[St. SteVen]

Christ placed the gathering of the saints after the GT has ended, Matthew 24.

Do you see any point in that?
Will the saints suffer the GT only to miss the Millennial reign?
Or do you understand it as a U-Turn Rapture?
Which is pointless, as well.

How do we weigh what we are gathering from study with common sense?
Unless we prefer to accept these things as seemingly senseless acts of God.
Maybe the authors/copyists/editors/translators/commentators got it wrong?

 

[St. SteVen]

A more biblical order would be:


- Tribulation
- Second Coming
- Resurrection
- Rapture
- Armageddon
- Millennial Reign
- Final judgement

Why would you place Armageddon where you did?

 

[David in NJ]

St. SteVen said:
Here's a question.
What is the point of a Post-Tribulation Rapture?
What are we being raptured from?
Isn't that a U-Turn Rapture?
Or will we miss the Millennium?

A pointless rapture then?
Why would those who survived the Great Tribulation be taken away before the Millennium begins?
Unless we are talking about a U-Turn Rapture. ???
Nothing rapturous about any of that. IMHO

Would not the Second Coming and the beginning of the Millennium be enough relief from the Great Tribulation?
No need, nor purpose, for a Post-Trib Rapture in my estimation. Mid-Trib, or Pre-Trib makes much more sense.
A Rapture FROM something.

Surprised you didn't ask me about my Pan-Trib stance.

I'll pass on graven images. - LOL
O know, I know... not what you meant.
(hard to resist such a good set-up)
Anyway, let's look at those.

1 Thessalonians 3:13 NIV
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy
in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 NIV
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,
so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God
will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Purpose of the Resurrection and Rapture

1 Corinthians chapter 15 = Glorified Immortal Bodies , in His Likeness (1 John 3:1-3) has always been the Plan of God for Man (Genesis).

This takes place at His Glorious Coming above the earth.

Can you SEE why and what the Message is? = We are no longer bound as mortal flesh Beings of the earth.

"I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us.
The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." - Romans 8:18-21

ALSO = Judgment Time for the earth dwellers who joined the Antichrist/Beast and recieved his Mark.

"and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

"Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

 

[Truth7t7]

Purpose of the Resurrection and Rapture

1 Corinthians chapter 15 = Glorified Immortal Bodies , in His Likeness (1 John 3:1-3) has always been the Plan of God for Man (Genesis).

This takes place at His Glorious Coming above the earth.

Can you SEE why and what the Message is? = We are no longer bond as mortal flesh Beings of the earth.

"I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." - Romans 8:18-21

ALSO = Judgment Time for the earth dwellers who joined the Antichrist/Beast and recieved his Mark.

"and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

"Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

Scripture below teaches Jesus comes "Then Cometh The End"

You don't want to see the end Dave "Why"?

1 Corinthians 15:23-24KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[David in NJ]

Scripture below teaches Jesus comes "Then Cometh The End"

You don't want to see the end Dave "Why"?

1 Corinthians 15:23-24KJV
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The end of this present Age ruled by satan/sinful men and his angels.

It is not the End of the Heavens and Earth

The Final Judgment comes after the 1,000 Years whereby the heavens and earth burn up with intense heat and are destroyed.

 

[Truth7t7]

The end of this present Age ruled by satan/sinful men and his angels.

It is not the End of the Heavens and Earth

Your claim is false, when Jesus returns the resurrection takes place, at this time the last enemy death is swallowed up in victory (The End)

It appears you desire to maintain man's teaching of a millennial kingdom on this earth, over biblical truth before your eyes

There isn't time for human life beyond the last Trump, its (The End), the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, takes place (Eternity)

1 Corinthians 15:52-54KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[David in NJ]

Your claim is false, when Jesus returns the resurrection takes place, at this time the last enemy death is swallowed up in victory (The End)

It appears you desire to maintain man's teaching of a millennial kingdom on this earth, over biblical truth before your eyes

There isn't time for human life beyond the last Trump, its (The End), the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, takes place (Eternity)

1 Corinthians 15:52-54KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Good Morning Tr7

Death is swallowed up in victory ONLY for the SAVED = the SAVED are not part of the GWT Judgment

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death." - Rev 2:11

 

[Truth7t7]

Good Morning Tr7

Death is swallowed up in victory ONLY for the SAVED = the SAVED are not part of the GWT Judgment

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death." - Rev 2:11

Good morning Dave, when Jesus returns its "The End", the last Trump has blown, the final judgement takes place, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

 

[David in NJ]

Here is one very important scripture for you to meditate on.

"I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us.
The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it,
in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the sons of God." - Romans 8:18-21

 

[Truth7t7]

Here is one very important scripture for you to meditate on.

"I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us.
The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it,
in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the sons of God." - Romans 8:18-21

That has nothing to do with the fact, when Jesus returns its "The End", the last Trump has blown, the final judgement takes place, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

 

[David in NJ]

That has nothing to do with the fact, when Jesus returns its "The End", the last Trump has blown, the final judgement takes place, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

The fact is God desires for you see more = Romans 8:18-21

Romans 8 is a FACT that cannot be overided, overruled, disavowed or nullified