the 7th Trump

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David in NJ

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God is not the author of confusion but religion is.

It is irrefutable Scriptural Truth that there will be only One Second Coming of Christ = Hebrews 9:28
"Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him."

Confirming this Truth is that there will be one last Trumpet sound at the Second Coming of Christ and the Resurrection of the dead in Him:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Revelation 10:7

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled, just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.”

The Irrefutable Validation of this Truth is SEEN in 1 Thess 1:10 , 2 Thess ch2 and Revelation 11:15-18

"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
 
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GISMYS_7

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Jesus is returning in the clouds on rapture day for those looking for Him if you reject the rapture and are not looking for His return (caching up)thn you get to be left behind.
 
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St. SteVen

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God is not the author of confusion but religion is.

It is irrefutable Scriptural Truth that there will be only One Second Coming of Christ = Hebrews 9:28
"Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him."
Is there a controversy to discuss here? Do some not agree that the Second Coming is... coming?
I know the Rapture is controversial. Pre/mid/post/pan

I assume a "Trump" is a trumpet? (aka in Rev.)
I'm no expert in trumpet counting. A seventh trumpet sounds like more than I was anticipating.
A little background on how you arrived at seven would be helpful. Thanks.
 

David in NJ

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Jesus is returning in the clouds on rapture day for those looking for Him if you reject the rapture and are not looking for His return (caching up)thn you get to be left behind.
Here is what is deeply concerning and is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ = you are accusing the Blood Washed Born Again Body of Christ of deserving condemnation simply because we reject 'pre-trib' rapture theory.

We are not saved by pre-trib rapture theory therefore we do not look for such to save us.

We all find our Salvation at One Place = the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our LORD Jesus Christ.

We all are eagerly looking for His Second Coming = as we should.

"and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."
 

ewq1938

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Is there a controversy to discuss here? Do some not agree that the Second Coming is... coming?
I know the Rapture is controversial. Pre/mid/post/pan

I assume a "Trump" is a trumpet? (aka in Rev.)
I'm no expert in trumpet counting. A seventh trumpet sounds like more than I was anticipating.
A little background on how you arrived at seven would be helpful. Thanks.

It's the last one in prophecy.
 

David in NJ

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Is there a controversy to discuss here? Do some not agree that the Second Coming is... coming?
I know the Rapture is controversial. Pre/mid/post/pan

I assume a "Trump" is a trumpet? (aka in Rev.)
I'm no expert in trumpet counting. A seventh trumpet sounds like more than I was anticipating.
A little background on how you arrived at seven would be helpful. Thanks.
It was revealed to the Apostle Paul, thru the Holy Spirit, that Messiah would come at 'the last trump'.

Before Paul wrote this Jesus spoke of it in Matthew ch24

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So we have Two Witnesses = the Apostle Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ in His Gospel

the 3rd Faithful Witness is again the LORD in His Revelation = chapter 10 v7 and chapter 11 v15-19

There are no prior Trumpet Calls to God's Elect for the Resurrection/Rapture under the New Covenant other then the "last" which is the '7th'
 

Keraz

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And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So we have Two Witnesses = the Apostle Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ in His Gospel
The gathering of His faithful people when Jesus Returns, is not the same as when everybody who has ever lived, are raised to stand before God in Judgment, as per Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:8-9
That will be the final trumpet blast; the ultimate Last Trumpet Call.

And to conflate the Seven Trumpets of Revelations great Tribulation, with the Return or the final Judgment; is simply confusion and error.
 
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David in NJ

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The gathering of His faithful people when Jesus Returns, is not the same as when everybody who has ever lived, are raised to stand before God in Judgment, as per Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:8-9
That will be the final trumpet blast; the ultimate Last Trumpet Call.

And to conflate the Seven Trumpets of Revelations great Tribulation, with the Return or the final Judgment; is simply confusion and error.
Revelation chapter 11 the 7th Trumpet announces the Return of Christ

This occurs first:

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:

“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”

Revelation chapter 20 clarifies a 1,000 Year Rule of Christ before the GWT Judgment.
 

St. SteVen

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The gathering of His faithful people when Jesus Returns, is not the same as when everybody who has ever lived, are raised to stand before God in Judgment, as per Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:8-9
That will be the final trumpet blast; the ultimate Last Trumpet Call.

And to conflate the Seven Trumpets of Revelations great Tribulation, with the Return or the final Judgment; is simply confusion and error.
Aha. I wondered about that.
What is the order of events in your view?
Like this? The Tribulation, then the Second Coming, the antichrist and Satan thrown in the abyss,
then the Millennium, then Armageddon, then the final Judgment. (last Trump) ???
 

Keraz

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Revelation chapter 11 the 7th Trumpet announces the Return of Christ

This occurs first:

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:

“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”
Rev 11:13-19 is a Prophecy about of what happens when Jesus does Return, as described in Revelation 19:11-21.
What is Prophesied there cannot happen until all of Revelation from then until the glorious Return. Thinking Jesus does return at the 7th Trumpet, is confusion and error.
Revelation chapter 20 clarifies a 1,000 Year Rule of Christ before the GWT Judgment.
This truth is perfectly evident. Only people with another agenda reject it.
 

Keraz

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What is the order of events in your view?
What WILL happen:

The enemies of the Lord gather
- Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2
They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2
They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14
This is the situation today.

Soon to happen:
At the moment of attack, God will use His Creation, the sun to send fire - Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-43, Isaiah 30:26 & 30, Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Amos 1:1-15 & 2:1-5 , Psalms 50:1-3, Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation 6:12-17

The sun will explode with an extremely bright flash and the moon will reflect bright red
- Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Habakkuk 3:4-5
The Lord will make their weapons recoil upon themselves, the Electro-Magnetic Pulse hit will cause them to explode - Psalms 7:13-16, Joel 3:4, Obadiah 15

Then the sun, moon and stars will be obscured by the approaching Coronal Mass Ejection - Psalms 18:11-12, Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Amos 8:9

A huge superhot mass of hydrogen plasma approaches the earth – Joel 1:15-20, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Everyone on earth will be shocked and terrified - Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 21:5-7a, Isaiah 13:6-8, Revelation 6:15-17

The atmosphere will be pushed aside – Revelation 6:14, 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 34:4

The whole earth will be enveloped by fire - Isaiah 66:15, Zeph. 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

In the Holy Land, only a remnant will survive - Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13

He will punish His enemies, the attackers of Israel- Psalms 83, Isaiah 63:1-6, Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 14 18-20, Isaiah 66:17, Isaiah 29:20-21, Hebrews 10:27

His enemies will become ashes - Malachi 4:3, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 49:2, Matthew 3:12b

Millions will die around the world - Psalms 97:3-5, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 13:12

The Lord will protect those who call to Him - Isaiah 43:2, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

But most people will take shelter until it passes. Isaiah 2:19, Revelation 6:15

The survivors will form a One World Govt. - Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12

The Holy Land will be regenerated - Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:21-24, Isaiah 35:1-10, Amos 9:13-15, Jeremiah 33:12-14

And the Lord's faithful Christian people will gather there. - Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9-14
They will become the new nation of Beulah - Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 36:3-38, Jeremiah 31

They will build a new Temple – Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 40 to 48

The attack by a Northern army will be won by the Lord – Ezekiel 38:22, Joel 2:20

The leaders of Beulah will break the Covenant with the Lord and sign a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the O.W.G. Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:14-15

At the midpoint he will break the treaty and conquer Beulah-Daniel 9:27, Zechariah 14:1-2

This commences the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation - Rev 8:2 onward.

Those who kept their faith in God will be taken to a safe place on earth. Daniel 11:32b, Revelation 12:14

3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4

The Lord has told us His plans and He will not relent or change them - Jeremiah 4:28
There are plenty more prophecies and scriptures to prove this scenario.
Believe it or not it’s up to everyone to decide! Psalms 19:11-12, Isaiah 48:6
 
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quietthinker

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What WILL happen:

The enemies of the Lord gather
- Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2
They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2
They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14
This is the situation today.

Soon to happen:
At the moment of attack, God will use His Creation, the sun to send fire - Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-43, Isaiah 30:26 & 30, Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Amos 1:1-15 & 2:1-5 , Psalms 50:1-3, Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation 6:12-17

The sun will explode with an extremely bright flash and the moon will reflect bright red
- Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Habakkuk 3:4-5
The Lord will make their weapons recoil upon themselves, the Electro-Magnetic Pulse hit will cause them to explode - Psalms 7:13-16, Joel 3:4, Obadiah 15

Then the sun, moon and stars will be obscured by the approaching Coronal Mass Ejection - Psalms 18:11-12, Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Amos 8:9

A huge superhot mass of hydrogen plasma approaches the earth – Joel 1:15-20, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Everyone on earth will be shocked and terrified - Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 21:5-7a, Isaiah 13:6-8, Revelation 6:15-17

The atmosphere will be pushed aside – Revelation 6:14, 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 34:4

The whole earth will be enveloped by fire - Isaiah 66:15, Zeph. 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

In the Holy Land, only a remnant will survive - Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13

He will punish His enemies, the attackers of Israel- Psalms 83, Isaiah 63:1-6, Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 14 18-20, Isaiah 66:17, Isaiah 29:20-21, Hebrews 10:27

His enemies will become ashes - Malachi 4:3, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 49:2, Matthew 3:12b

Millions will die around the world - Psalms 97:3-5, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 13:12

The Lord will protect those who call to Him - Isaiah 43:2, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

But most people will take shelter until it passes. Isaiah 2:19, Revelation 6:15

The survivors will form a One World Govt. - Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12

The Holy Land will be regenerated - Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:21-24, Isaiah 35:1-10, Amos 9:13-15, Jeremiah 33:12-14

And the Lord's faithful Christian people will gather there. - Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9-14
They will become the new nation of Beulah - Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 36:3-38, Jeremiah 31

They will build a new Temple – Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 40 to 48

The attack by a Northern army will be won by the Lord – Ezekiel 38:22, Joel 2:20

The leaders of Beulah will break the Covenant with the Lord and sign a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the O.W.G. Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:14-15

At the midpoint he will break the treaty and conquer Beulah-Daniel 9:27, Zechariah 14:1-2

This commences the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation - Rev 8:2 onward.

Those who kept their faith in God will be taken to a safe place on earth. Daniel 11:32b, Revelation 12:14

3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4

The Lord has told us His plans and He will not relent or change them - Jeremiah 4:28
There are plenty more prophecies and scriptures to prove this scenario.
Believe it or not it’s up to everyone to decide! Psalms 19:11-12, Isaiah 48:6
tell me Keraz, Paul says that all the promises of God have been fulfilled in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 1:20 so how is it you interpret independent of the Jesus lens?.....or do you not know what I mean?
 

Keraz

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tell me Keraz, Paul says that all the promises of God have been fulfilled in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 1:20 so how is it you interpret independent of the Jesus lens?.....or do you not know what I mean?
Yes; the Prophesies will be fulfilled thru Jesus, that is: by and for the followers of Jesus. as told to us in verses like Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 5:9-10, and all the OT Prophesies that tell about the righteous Israelites.
Note: the use of past tense in many Prophesies. merely denotes the assurance of its certain fulfilment, often many years later.
 

David in NJ

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Rev 11:13-19 is a Prophecy about of what happens when Jesus does Return, as described in Revelation 19:11-21.
What is Prophesied there cannot happen until all of Revelation from then until the glorious Return. Thinking Jesus does return at the 7th Trumpet, is confusion and error.

This truth is perfectly evident. Only people with another agenda reject it.
YES, Rev ch19 is the actual Return of Christ = 100%

This does not nullify the 7th and Last Trump.

Revelation repeats itself.
 
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quietthinker

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Yes; the Prophesies will be fulfilled thru Jesus, that is: by and for the followers of Jesus. as told to us in verses like Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 5:9-10, and all the OT Prophesies that tell about the righteous Israelites.
Note: the use of past tense in many Prophesies. merely denotes the assurance of its certain fulfilment, often many years later.
I think you've missed or don't understand Paul's exclamation and why he frames the way he does. To cover for your lack of understanding you've added your note.
 

St. SteVen

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3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4
So, the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the Tribulation, ushering in the Millennial reign?
Therefore, not the last Trump?
 

St. SteVen

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You don't get left behind. That's someone's idea to sell books. "Left behind" series.
LOL - That's funny.

What do you make of this?

Matthew 24:40-41 NIV
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
 

dev553344

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LOL - That's funny.

What do you make of this?

Matthew 24:40-41 NIV
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
We've been over this with GISMYS_7. Just because you're not aware of Christ's return does not mean you will be left behind. He will collect who he collects and make himself known to them. Yes some people will be left behind unfortunately.
 
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